Gold Coast Bears/Nth Sydney/Gosford

[siv]

To be honest, I used to be in the camp calling for Sydney clubs to be culled for the "Greater Good" - but seeing how the AFL approached the issue of expansion has made me rethink that.

If we expand with 2 teams first - I propose Brisbane2 (open it to bids) and Perth as no-brainers to maximize revenue growth, AND put grants in place to give every club the best chance to succeed financially, what's wrong with that?

It seems to have worked in AFL.

The funny thing is that two clubs that had to be taken over by the NRL were Gold Coast and Newcastle - not Sydney clubs.

On the list of clubs "saved" you should list the News Ltd owned clubs beyond the Broncos in 1997-9

It paints a interesting picture

 

[flippikat]

On the list of clubs "saved" you should list the News Ltd owned clubs beyond the Broncos in 1997-9

It paints a interesting picture

Yeah, I can't vouch for the Cowboys but the Warriors limped to the end of the 1990s before they were sold. It's to the NRLs credit they didn't ditch them like how News abandoned the Rams & Reds. There was a lot of patience while the Warriors got their act together.

 

[Vee]

For me this MASSIVE grant increase they are getting is last chance saloon. If they are not financially sustainable in 3-4 years time with all this cash being thrown at them they never will be.

I've seen nothing to suggest NRL clubs will manage bigger grants any better than they did smaller ones. They will blow the money and be living hand-to-mouth again in no time.

 

[taipan]

I've seen nothing to suggest NRL clubs will manage bigger grants any better than they did smaller ones. They will blow the money and be living hand-to-mouth again in no time.

Well if they do that, they live on borrowed time.and have no one else but themselves to blame when the commission says move on to X destination.
IMO with the threat of extinction hanging over their heads,I'd be prepared to suggest most will do the right thing, if not all.
Savage fines for exceeding the cap.dudding the cap, and no additional money to prop them up,is a huge incentive to get their ar*es into gear.

 

[Stallion]

Well if they do that, they live on borrowed time.and have no one else but themselves to blame when the commission says move on to X destination.
IMO with the threat of extinction hanging over their heads,I'd be prepared to suggest most will do the right thing, if not all.
Savage fines for exceeding the cap.dudding the cap, and no additional money to prop them up,is a huge incentive to get their ar*es into gear.

Still think this a negative outlook fellas? I believe that an extra two clubs in strategically important locations Brisbane(Sunshine Coast) and Gosford (Bears reentered ) are essential additions to the current comp. They can only increase the popularity and strengthen heartland areas. An eye for further additional clubs in WA and somewhere else should be a long term expansion aim. This relocation and implosion talk is genuinely negative. That's not say the Sydney clubs should not lift their game though! Many have neglected their juniors and their fans for far too long. They need to be proactive and het back to what made them popular in the first place. Familiarity and local presence through junior participation and encouragement are a few ways to lift their public regard. Another contributer mentioned an AFL book called 'Football Ltd' by Garry Linnell that detailed that the AFL were looking at simliar type carving up of foundation/Melbourne clybs but in the end stuck solid and all of these clubs are now bigger and better. Something rugby league need to appreciate and learn from.

 

[Stormwarrior82]

I've seen nothing to suggest NRL clubs will manage bigger grants any better than they did smaller ones. They will blow the money and be living hand-to-mouth again in no time.

I think the Nrl has done a ok job in this regard. I don’t think the nrl should dictate clubs football dept spending. There is a cap on that in the coming years and kpi that relate to membership/sales etc. that being said nothing could stop them from over committing cash to CoE or leagues clubs. But the Nrl has covered that and has told them no more handouts. The clubs new sinking fund helps pays for that.

If a club fails now then they don’t belong in the Nrl no matter who you are!!!

 

[Stormwarrior82]

Still think this a negative outlook fellas? I believe that an extra two clubs in strategically important locations Brisbane(Sunshine Coast) and Gosford (Bears reentered ) are essential additions to the current comp. They can only increase the popularity and strengthen heartland areas. An eye for further additional clubs in WA and somewhere else should be a long term expansion aim. This relocation and implosion talk is genuinely negative. That's not say the Sydney clubs should not lift their game though! Many have neglected their juniors and their fans for far too long. They need to be proactive and het back to what made them popular in the first place. Familiarity and local presence through junior participation and encouragement are a few ways to lift their public regard. Another contributer mentioned an AFL book called 'Football Ltd' by Garry Linnell that detailed that the AFL were looking at simliar type carving up of foundation/Melbourne clybs but in the end stuck solid and all of these clubs are now bigger and better. Something rugby league need to appreciate and learn from.

One little thing.... Roosters already have central coast? So your saying Politis should just hand the bears back the keys to the central coast?...the place they neglected? Apart from there own North Sydney area they have no other area to help support.

A New Brisbane 2/Ipswich and a Perth club with Nrl/Sydney clubs also engaging there supporter bases will truely increase popularity and strengthen heartland areas in a quicker and more meaningful way.

Your entitled to your opinion but you have to know your opinion is a massive minority. You and your 10 bears supporters you talk to.

 

[Stallion]

I think the Nrl has done a ok job in this regard. I don’t think the nrl should dictate clubs football dept spending. There is a cap on that in the coming years and kpi that relate to membership/sales etc. that being said nothing could stop them from over committing cash to CoE or leagues clubs. But the Nrl has covered that and has told them no more handouts. The clubs new sinking fund helps pays for that.

If a club fails now then they don’t belong in the Nrl no matter who you are!!!

So what's your stance on additional clubs?

 

[Stormwarrior82]

So what's your stance on additional clubs?

In my opinion nsw is at capacity with Nrl clubs. If a Sydney club fails and goes bankrupt I’m not sure there is much chance for any other 2nd tier Sydney club to do a better job and be competitive. If after 10 or so years of nsw clubs engaging fans/supporters and there is a obvious gap to fill well I could be open to another side (bears) if all teams are going well.

In saying that I think Perth, brisbane 2/Ipswich, adelaide(bears relocation) and nz2/png should be next 4/5 teams.

 

[Stallion]

One little thing.... Roosters already have central coast? So your saying Politis should just hand the bears back the keys to the central coast?...the place they neglected? Apart from there own North Sydney area they have no other area to help support.

A New Brisbane 2/Ipswich and a Perth club with Nrl/Sydney clubs also engaging there supporter bases will truely increase popularity and strengthen heartland areas in a quicker and more meaningful way.

Your entitled to your opinion but you have to know your opinion is a massive minority. You and your 10 bears supporters you talk to.

Missing the point. Logistically speaking the regaining of the North Sydney ' ten supporters ' (as you put it)and the Central Coast would be a win win for northern Sydney and the Central Coast. I believe the Roosters have neglected their local area and should develop it much better along with sone dedicated support from a higher body. As a Roosters fan I am no fan of the Roosters doing an "invasion" of the Central Coast. Its an easy out and reeks of laziness and abandonment of their area. On Brisbane :their are whispers of a Sunshine Coast club on the horizon This is long overdue. Both of the areas I have alluded to would significantly regain and increase rivalries, interest and secure the eastern seaboard for rugby league. I have no doubt WA is a goer however this is into the future as logistics and juniors are not in place. The juniors are in place and the fans are there for both the Central Coast of NSW and the Sunshine Coast of Qld. The effort to kick these clubs off woukd not be as risky as the far-reaching Perth franchise at this stage. WA will undoubtedly come but over more time. Atm moment rugby league is under attack in its heartland areas and needs consolidation with an eye to additional expansion clubs into the future. The number of clubs are not enough for this great competition.

 

[Stormwarrior82]

Missing the point. Logistically speaking the regaining of the North Sydney ' ten supporters ' (as you put it)and the Central Coast would be a win win for northern Sydney and the Central Coast. I believe the Roosters have neglected their local area and should develop it much better along with sone dedicated support from a higher body. As a Roosters fan I am no fan of the Roosters doing an "invasion" of the Central Coast. Its an easy out and reeks of laziness and abandonment of their area. On Brisbane :their are whispers of a Sunshine Coast club on the horizon This is long overdue. Both of the areas I have alluded to would significantly regain and increase rivalries, interest and secure the eastern seaboard for rugby league. I have no doubt WA is a goer however this is into the future as logistics and juniors are not in place. The juniors are in place and the fans are there for both the Central Coast of NSW and the Sunshine Coast of Qld. The effort to kick these clubs off woukd not be as risky as the far-reaching Perth franchise at this stage. WA will undoubtedly come but over more time. Atm moment rugby league is under attack in its heartland areas and needs consolidation with an eye to additional expansion clubs into the future. The number of clubs are not enough for this great competition.

Im not missing the point at all, I’m the one making my point!

It seems your a bears supporter with a roosters Jersey. The bears could neglect there own north Sydney area just as much as (you say) the roosters neglecting there local area for central coast. And what’s this support from a higher body?.... are you one of those Jesus people?

Also the Sunshine Coast team are affiliated with the storm and a bit of money has been spent up there to. Highly doubt sunny coast will get the nod ahead of a brisbane 2 or a Ipswich team.

I don’t think the heartland areas are under attack as much as the media want you to think. And before you go all school teacher on me I do think the nrl should do more in the school system but junior club system is outside of that. I just think the Nrl clubs aren’t doing anything to keep supporters and youngsters. That needs to change and hopefully it starts this year with the help of the Nrl.

WA mighten be ready now but in 3-5 years they will be.

Agree with you about the number of teams but disagree with you about who is included and how we get there.

 

[Stallion]

Im not missing the point at all, I’m the one making my point!

It seems your a bears supporter with a roosters Jersey. The bears could neglect there own north Sydney area just as much as (you say) the roosters neglecting there local area for central coast. And what’s this support from a higher body?.... are you one of those Jesus people?

Also the Sunshine Coast team are affiliated with the storm and a bit of money has been spent up there to. Highly doubt sunny coast will get the nod ahead of a brisbane 2 or a Ipswich team.

I don’t think the heartland areas are under attack as much as the media want you to think. And before you go all school teacher on me I do think the nrl should do more in the school system but junior club system is outside of that. I just think the Nrl clubs aren’t doing anything to keep supporters and youngsters. That needs to change and hopefully it starts this year with the help of the Nrl.

WA mighten be ready now but in 3-5 years they will be.

Agree with you about the number of teams but disagree with you about who is included and how we get there.

Im glad we agree on greater team numbers! The higher body I'm refering to is the NRL itself. The supply of development officers and targeted incentives along with funding proactive recruitment strategies. We agree on most things however I'm a Roosters fan who knows what's happening in the North part of Sydney. And it is not good for rugby league. The game has alot to gain if the Bears came back from hibernation. Not only the very infuential business district of North Sydney but North Sydney and the Central Coast as a win/win. Their is still BEARS wording on the seating at the Gosford stadium! What an absolute licence to print money on a railway line that goes straight to North Sydney. It's a moneymaking field of dreams! Not to mention the added attraction of genuine local derbies with Manly Warringah and Newcastle. Some absolute bonanzas. And it's still the largest populated area of Australia. It makes good business sense. This is no lecture but moreover an awareness of what can be easily regained/gained with infrastructure of stadia and juniors already to be tapped and increased (especially in the neglected North Sydney area) A pretty positive move I would suggest!?

 

[Stormwarrior82]

Im glad we agree on greater team numbers! The higher body I'm refering to is the NRL itself. The supply of development officers and targeted incentives along with funding proactive recruitment strategies. We agree on most things however I'm a Roosters fan who knows what's happening in the North part of Sydney. And it is not good for rugby league. The game has alot to gain if the Bears came back from hibernation. Not only the very infuential business district of North Sydney but North Sydney and the Central Coast as a win/win. Their is still BEARS wording on the seating at the Gosford stadium! What an absolute licence to print money on a railway line that goes straight to North Sydney. It's a moneymaking field of dreams! Not to mention the added attraction of genuine local derbies with Manly Warringah and Newcastle. Some absolute bonanzas. And it's still the largest populated area of Australia. It makes good business sense. This is no lecture but moreover an awareness of what can be easily regained/gained with infrastructure of stadia and juniors already to be tapped and increased (especially in the neglected North Sydney area) A pretty positive move I would suggest!?

You can say anything you want but it doesn’t change the fact that Roosters have the central coast. Which is the area that the bears gave up on, the storm and Newcastle came and went. For your romantic novel to even see the light of day, Politis would have to give the central coast region (The largest populated areas in Australia as you say) up. Can you not see the problem. He never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever will do that and the Nrl can’t and won’t force them to either. Bears chance, (as much as it might be a Cinderella story for you) is over in the central coast. Unless the bears can expand to somewhere else and engage the north Sydney business district they have none and buckles of getting back in the Nrl!!!!. Adelaide bears 2028

 

[King hit]

I can see some big positives if the Central Coast Bears happened

- Bringing back one of the traditional foundation clubs that were likeable and were supposed to play there in the comp from 2000 onwards

- Regular NRL games at a high standard stadium in Gosford

- Bringing back fans who were lost to the game when Norths were excluded

- giving a strong sporting community a local identity. They have thousands of signed on members already and would be a well supported team

- Local juniors won’t have to leave home and can join the local team

I can see a CC team being a competitive team with strong support

 

[Stallion]

You can say anything you want but it doesn’t change the fact that Roosters have the central coast. Which is the area that the bears gave up on, the storm and Newcastle came and went. For your romantic novel to even see the light of day, Politis would have to give the central coast region (The largest populated areas in Australia as you say) up. Can you not see the problem. He never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever will do that and the Nrl can’t and won’t force them to either. Bears chance, (as much as it might be a Cinderella story for you) is over in the central coast. Unless the bears can expand to somewhere else and engage the north Sydney business district they have none and buckles of getting back in the Nrl!!!!. Adelaide bears 2028

Enough of the can't do rhetoric! It's not impossible for the Bears to re emerge on the Central Coast . As have been outlined their exists many positives to be gained. This is not a personal plea? It's common sense and logical thinking. Locality wise and strategically for a code that has been weakened in the greater Sydney metropolitan area and surrounding districts. It's not like a plunge in the ocean either ? Their are established markets to be reinvigorated and developed? The Central Coast Bears and a Brisbane 2 team are easy and logical additions to this competition. Both providing significant local derbies and rivalries which can only add value to the NRL and grow along with consolidating the code. Still a fan of WA and for that matter either Adelaide or another Melbourne team may be worthwhile? But those expansion areas need to be targeted and developed. And they can ! No doubt about that.

 

[The Great Dane]

On Brisbane :their are whispers of a Sunshine Coast club on the horizon This is long overdue.

Those "whispers" are either BS or a massive pipe dream, the Sunshine Coast doesn't have the facilities to support any sports teams, for example their biggest "stadium" has a capacity of "12k" and it's nearly all grass hill, and there's no way they are getting any government funding for a brand new stadium anytime soon...

 

[The Great Dane]

I can see some big positives if the Central Coast Bears happened

- Bringing back one of the traditional foundation clubs that were likeable and were supposed to play there in the comp from 2000 onwards

- Regular NRL games at a high standard stadium in Gosford

- Bringing back fans who were lost to the game when Norths were excluded

- giving a strong sporting community a local identity. They have thousands of signed on members already and would be a well supported team

- Local juniors won’t have to leave home and can join the local team

I can see a CC team being a competitive team with strong support

That's all well and good but at who's expense?

The CC is literally smack bang in the middle of the most competitive market for RL content in the world, and the most over saturated RL market to boot, they are literally an hour in each direction from live NRL, so who misses out so they can have another team when they have already have 10 literally on their doorstep most of whom they can't support?

And why would we drop another team into an extremely overstated market when we have plenty of other new markets that could support a club going without clubs? Especially when that team would be in the least competitive part of that already over saturated market of any of the clubs in that market and would be doomed to an existence of struggling to compete with the other clubs in that market.

To put it simply the CC is an extremely bad idea...

 

[Stallion]

Those "whispers" are either BS or a massive pipe dream, the Sunshine Coast doesn't have the facilities to support any sports teams, for example their biggest "stadium" has a capacity of "12k" and it's nearly all grass hill, and there's no way they are getting any government funding for a brand new stadium anytime soon...

I think the intention is to use Suncorp Stadium ?

 

[Stallion]

That's all well and good but at who's expense?

The CC is literally smack bang in the middle of the most competitive market for RL content in the world, and the most over saturated RL market to boot, they are literally an hour in each direction from live NRL, so who misses out so they can have another team when they have already have 10 literally on their doorstep most of whom they can't support?

And why would we drop another team into an extremely overstated market when we have plenty of other new markets that could support a club going without clubs? Especially when that team would be in the least competitive part of that already over saturated market of any of the clubs in that market and would be doomed to an existence of struggling to compete with the other clubs in that market.

To put it simply the CC is an extremely bad idea...

No they havent got ten on their doorstep! The geography and population makes it compelling sense and good business to have the Centrsl Coast Bears. The metropolitan area of Sydney is massive and its population is growing. . Its basically catering for the evergrowing public . Either rugby league becomes more accessable or give it to other codes that are doing so in the already 'vacated' North Sydney area. Try and tell the 10 AFL clubs in Melbourne with one million less people to draw from that their are too many clubs on their doorstep. You would be run out of town ! I'm amazed at the few contributors that seem to think the NRL is at a finite number of clubs? After all the top flight had 22 clubs in 1997 and the code was making great progress in 1995 when 20 teams were part of this fantastic competition . Less constrictive chatter and more positive additional expansion/consolidation clubs are what's needed for this comp. No more implosion and constriction agendas would be much more positive and acceptable to the general public.

 

[King hit]

That's all well and good but at who's expense?

The CC is literally smack bang in the middle of the most competitive market for RL content in the world, and the most over saturated RL market to boot, they are literally an hour in each direction from live NRL, so who misses out so they can have another team when they have already have 10 literally on their doorstep most of whom they can't support?

And why would we drop another team into an extremely overstated market when we have plenty of other new markets that could support a club going without clubs? Especially when that team would be in the least competitive part of that already over saturated market of any of the clubs in that market and would be doomed to an existence of struggling to compete with the other clubs in that market.

To put it simply the CC is an extremely bad idea...

I feel they can just fold the Titans and replace them with the CC Bears and they would offer so much more. The Gold Coast is sporting aids, every sporting franchise no matter what the sport is has failed there. The Titans can be replaced by Brisbane 2 or Central Queensland as Queensland would embrace those teams much more than the Titans.