Gold Coast Bears/Nth Sydney/Gosford

[LeagueXIII]

Enough of the can't do rhetoric! It's not impossible for the Bears to re emerge on the Central Coast .

Exactly....people said Souths were gone, then 10 or so years later they win the premiership!!!

It can be done.

 

[LeagueXIII]

Those "whispers" are either BS or a massive pipe dream, the Sunshine Coast doesn't have the facilities to support any sports teams, for example their biggest "stadium" has a capacity of "12k" and it's nearly all grass hill, and there's no way they are getting any government funding for a brand new stadium anytime soon...

But that can change...if the NRL lobbied the government and committed to the area this would change.

Didn't the AFL not have a decent facility for GWS? Did they say can't be done or did they get proactive.

 

[LeagueXIII]

That's all well and good but at who's expense?

The CC is literally smack bang in the middle of the most competitive market for RL content in the world, and the most over saturated RL market to boot, they are literally an hour in each direction from live NRL, so who misses out so they can have another team when they have already have 10 literally on their doorstep most of whom they can't support?

And why would we drop another team into an extremely overstated market when we have plenty of other new markets that could support a club going without clubs? Especially when that team would be in the least competitive part of that already over saturated market of any of the clubs in that market and would be doomed to an existence of struggling to compete with the other clubs in that market.

To put it simply the CC is an extremely bad idea...

Because they ADD value, clubs don't struggle like they use to with an effective salary cap and big grants from the league.

 

[LeagueXIII]

I feel they can just fold the Titans and replace them with the CC Bears and they would offer so much more. The Gold Coast is sporting aids, every sporting franchise no matter what the sport is has failed there. The Titans can be replaced by Brisbane 2 or Central Queensland as Queensland would embrace those teams much more than the Titans.

We don't need to kill clubs to bring others in we just need to GROW the game and have a bloody vision.

 

[Stallion]

Exactly....people said Souths were gone, then 10 or so years later they win the premiership!!!

It can be done.

Yes . LeagueX111. It's amazing the blinkered viewpoints that seem to think 16 is the 'be all and end all' for club numbers in the NRL. Two extremely simple additions can be made in the short term with a Brisbane2 and Central Coast Bears without much logistical pain?! Infrastructure like modern stadia are there and plenty of junior numbers as well! Let alone the increased club rivalries and derby scenarios! An absolute gold mine that would add significant worth to this great competition that has been in idle for far too long.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

I think the Nrl has done a ok job in this regard. I don’t think the nrl should dictate clubs football dept spending. There is a cap on that in the coming years and kpi that relate to membership/sales etc. that being said nothing could stop them from over committing cash to CoE or leagues clubs. But the Nrl has covered that and has told them no more handouts. The clubs new sinking fund helps pays for that.

If a club fails now then they don’t belong in the Nrl no matter who you are!!!

The way i read the new footy dept cap; its not about limiting the clubs spending (they will find a way around it if they want to), it is about limiting the NRLs central responsibility of paying for it.

If clubs whinge about being poor, the ARLC can point to the grant and the caps and say "you have enough to survive. you CHOSE to spend more". Similar to the original salary cap; its not about equality, its about forcing clubs to find outside sponsors to pay if they want to spend more.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

In my opinion nsw is at capacity with Nrl clubs. If a Sydney club fails and goes bankrupt I’m not sure there is much chance for any other 2nd tier Sydney club to do a better job and be competitive. If after 10 or so years of nsw clubs engaging fans/supporters and there is a obvious gap to fill well I could be open to another side (bears) if all teams are going well.

In saying that I think Perth, brisbane 2/Ipswich, adelaide(bears relocation) and nz2/png should be next 4/5 teams.

If Bears want back in, they should buy into an existing club...

Wests Newcastle have reached the NRL by taking control of the Knights. the Bears can do the same if they are willing to put the money in. WTs are probably looking for a new partner. The club is already so stretched across sydney, its not too much more to expand North too.

 

[Stallion]

If Bears want back in, they should buy into an existing club...

Wests Newcastle have reached the NRL by taking control of the Knights. the Bears can do the same if they are willing to put the money in. WTs are probably looking for a new partner. The club is already so stretched across sydney, its not too much more to expand North too.

You have little grasp of the situation in Newcastle! Wests is the biggest licensed club in the Hunter. Valley, in fact Northern NSW. This business backed by this massive leagues club situated a block from the Knights stadium is a prudent business decision. This is separate from the Wests Newcastle football club which is sponsored by the same leagues club but considered a distinct and separate sports entity. The Bears should be reincarnated as the Centrsl Coast Bears. They were unfairly ousted from the competition just like the South Sydney club and the northern Sydney area is declining in rugbyleague as we speak ever since the top flight club was cut! I see you still don't appreciate the historical, cultural and familiarity aspect of the established and well known Sydney clubs. You just don't get it! An opportunity to mend a severe wound to the game is what the Central Coast Bears is about! It can only improve things for rugby league.

 

[The Great Dane]

I think the intention is to use Suncorp Stadium ?

Lol, that'll never work.

Why would you base a team 3 hours away from the region that it's representing?

And why would you let that club into the competition over a club representing the city that the stadium is in? Especially when considering that Brisbane is massively under represented in the NRL.

Like I said before it's either BS or a massive pipe dream.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

You have little grasp of the situation in Newcastle! Wests is the biggest licensed club in the Hunter. Valley, in fact Northern NSW. This business backed by this massive leagues club situated club a block from the Knights stadium is a prudent business decision. This is separate from the Wests Newcastle football club which is sponsored by the same leagues club but considered a distinct and separate sports entity. The Bears should be reincarnated as the Centrsl Coast Bears. They were unfailry ousted from the competition just like the South Sydney club and the northern Sydney area is declining in rugbyleague as we speak ever since the top flight club was cut! I see you still don't appreciate the historical, cultural and familiarity aspect of the established and well known Sydney clubs. You just don't get it! An opportunity to mend a severe wound to the game is what the Central Coast Bears is about! It can only improve things for rugby league.

And the Newcastle RL comp was "unfairly" usurped by a NSWRL blow-in.

But rather than bitching and whinging for 20 years, Newcastle made the best of it and the Knights are the best supported in the comp.

Bears were a part of a Sydney comp. They have as much "right" to a spot in the National comp and the Bomaderry SwampRats.

If they want to force their way into the comp, they have their path; buy into an existing club. Otherwise, stop bitching!

 

[The Great Dane]

No they havent got ten on their doorstep!

They have 10 clubs roughly within an hour of them... That'd be ten clubs on their doorstep...

The geography and population makes it compelling sense and good business to have the Centrsl Coast Bears.

Even if I grant you that it makes good business sense (which I don't by the way), does the geography and population make a better business sense then having clubs in places like Perth, Adelaide, Brisbane, Melbourne, Wellington, Christchurch, etc, etc.

The answer is no having a club on the CC doesn't make better business sense then having clubs in those places.

The metropolitan area of Sydney is massive and its population is growing. . Its basically catering for the evergrowing public .

That's nice, but Sydney can't even support the clubs that it has, and once you've cut it's population into ever tinier and tinier pieces it doesn't stack up when compared to having clubs that represent populations of millions...

Either rugby league becomes more accessable or give it to other codes that are doing so in the already 'vacated' North Sydney area.

You mean kind of like how the code has "vacated" half the country, and under represents half the other half!

The only place in this country where RL is accessible is Sydney, the old boys club in Sydney has sacrificed the sport in the rest of the country (and almost certainly killed the sport in the long run) to make sure of it!

How much more "accessable" do you need it to be mister teacher!

Try and tell the 10 AFL clubs in Melbourne with one million less people to draw from that their are too many clubs on their doorstep. You would be run out of town !

I don't need to tell the AFL that, they already know!

They've been trying to reduce the number of clubs in Melbourne continuously since the 70s, but they've been trying to do it with as little backlash in Melbourne as possible, but sooner or later they are going to realise that it isn't working quick enough and they'll force the matter... It's only a matter of time before the Demons, North Melbourne, West Bulldogs, and maybe a couple of others are either forced to move, merge, or are got rid of all together...

I'm amazed at the few contributors that seem to think the NRL is at a finite number of clubs?

The NRL can only support a finite number of clubs!

And with the way that it's structured there's no way that you'll be able to fit more then 24 into the competition, it's way too Sydney heavy they'll never be able to bring in the income to support anymore than that...

After all the top flight had 22 clubs in 1997 and the code was making great progress in 1995 when 20 teams were part of this fantastic competition .

Uh huh, and how many of those clubs were viable businesses?

Three quarters of them were already knocking on deaths door, the rest were only doing well cause the whole comp was rigged to support them...

It'd be no different these days if we expanded the way that the NSWRL did back then.

Less constrictive chatter and more positive additional expansion/consolidation clubs are what's needed for this comp. No more implosion and constriction agendas would be much more positive and acceptable to the general public.

We can't do that.

Every time we try to the Sydney clubs and Sydney media chuck a massive fit!

 

[The Great Dane]

I feel they can just fold the Titans and replace them with the CC Bears and they would offer so much more. The Gold Coast is sporting aids, every sporting franchise no matter what the sport is has failed there. The Titans can be replaced by Brisbane 2 or Central Queensland as Queensland would embrace those teams much more than the Titans.

I don't necessarily disagree with you about the GC (however I don't think it'd be strategically sound to get rid of them now, we're all in on them at this point), but if we were going to get rid of the Titans why would you replace them with the CC?
The CC would be destine to be in a position that is at least just as bad as the GC, realistically a lot worse position.

If you were going to get rid of them it'd make much more sense to replace them with another club in Brissy or a new club in Perth, Adelaide, Wellington, Christchurch, or even another in Melbourne would make more sense.

 

[The Great Dane]

But that can change...if the NRL lobbied the government and committed to the area this would change.

Didn't the AFL not have a decent facility for GWS? Did they say can't be done or did they get proactive.

The Queensland government has made it very clear that they aren't investing in another state of the art rectangular stadium in SE Queensland for the time being, and nor should they considering the amount that they've thrown into Suncorp and Robina in recent times...

BTW, if the NRL were going to lobby for a new stadium to be built in SE Queensland (which they won't, they haven't lobbied for any stadium outside of Sydney ever...) it'd be better to lobby for another in Brisbane or Ipswich/Logan, it'd be a hell of a lot more useful to them then one on the Sunshine Coast...

 

[Stallion]

They have 10 clubs roughly within an hour of them... That'd be ten clubs on their doorstep...



Even if I grant you that it makes good business sense (which I don't by the way), does the geography and population make a better business sense then having clubs in places like Perth, Adelaide, Brisbane, Melbourne, Wellington, Christchurch, etc, etc.

The answer is no having a club on the CC doesn't make better business sense then having clubs in those places.



That's nice, but Sydney can't even support the clubs that it has, and once you've cut it's population into ever tinier and tinier pieces it doesn't stack up when compared to having clubs that represent populations of millions...



You mean kind of like how the code has "vacated" half the country, and under represents half the other half!

The only place in this country where RL is accessible is Sydney, the old boys club in Sydney has sacrificed the sport in the rest of the country (and almost certainly killed the sport in the long run) to make sure of it!

How much more "accessable" do you need it to be mister teacher!



I don't need to tell the AFL that, they already know!

They've been trying to reduce the number of clubs in Melbourne continuously since the 70s, but they've been trying to do it with as little backlash in Melbourne as possible, but sooner or later they are going to realise that it isn't working quick enough and they'll force the matter... It's only a matter of time before the Demons, North Melbourne, West Bulldogs, and maybe a couple of others are either forced to move, merge, or are got rid of all together...



The NRL can only support a finite number of clubs!

And with the way that it's structured there's no way that you'll be able to fit more then 24 into the competition, it's way too Sydney heavy they'll never be able to bring in the income to support anymore than that...



Uh huh, and how many of those clubs were viable businesses?

Three quarters of them were already knocking on deaths door, the rest were only doing well cause the whole comp was rigged to support them...

It'd be no different these days if we expanded the way that the NSWRL did back then.



We can't do that.

Every time we try to the Sydney clubs and Sydney media chuck a massive fit!

You just dont get it Great Dane! The reason why this competition is great is the Sydney clubs. You destroy them you destroy the credibility and validity of the NRL before the publics eyes! More clubs are the answer. Implosion is not! The AFL scenario is coveted in a book called " Football Ltd" by Garry Linnett. IT tells why the AFL never went down the implosion path and funnily enough their foundation clubs arecall about and bigger and better than ever. And you want to lose that advantage the code had in Sydney? Reckless and ignorant thinking from you Great Dane!

 

[The Great Dane]

Because they ADD value

What does the CC add that a Perth, Brisbane, or Adelaide doesn't?

All the benefits that you could get from a CC club can be gained from a club in a large new market, not all the benefits that could be gained by a club in large new market could be gained by a club on the CC, and all the benefits from clubs in new markets come with either the negatives or the strings attached that a CC club would carry with them...

clubs don't struggle like they use to with an effective salary cap and big grants from the league.

The salary cap being the size that it is and those huge grants wont last forever, the NRL wont be able to afford it soon enough with TV dying and streaming taking over...

 

[Stallion]

The Queensland government has made it very clear that they aren't investing in another state of the art rectangular stadium in SE Queensland for the time being, and nor should they considering the amount that they've thrown into Suncorp and Robina in recent times...

BTW, if the NRL were going to lobby for a new stadium to be built in SE Queensland (which they won't, they haven't lobbied for any stadium outside of Sydney ever...) it'd be better to lobby for another in Brisbane or Ipswich/Logan, it'd be a hell of a lot more useful to them then one on the Sunshine Coast...

Pray tell? ! Why isn't Suncorp not suitable.Im sure they would use it to great advantage. In fact get crowds much bigger crowds than some other tenant codes and also equal if not more than the muchly detested Broncos.
And the compelling added value of the Central Coast Bears is twofold! Not only do they include the Central Coast region they also regain the 100000s Bears fans that are now lost to the code. Theirs also an increased player participation angle in both the Central Coast and North Sydney areas! I don't think any of your alternatives provide two markets. (One regained and one secured) Please note this is not say that Brisbane 2 (already in agreeance) and Perth are not in the picture either. Four more clubs are required and these will add value to this great but stagnant competition.

 

[King hit]

I don't necessarily disagree with you about the GC (however I don't think it'd be strategically sound to get rid of them now, we're all in on them at this point), but if we were going to get rid of the Titans why would you replace them with the CC?
The CC would be destine to be in a position that is at least just as bad as the GC, realistically a lot worse position.

If you were going to get rid of them it'd make much more sense to replace them with another club in Brissy or a new club in Perth, Adelaide, Wellington, Christchurch, or even another in Melbourne would make more sense.

The central coast isn’t a community that has world class theme parks, nightlife, tourist attractions etc like the Gold Coast does so there is minimial distractions for players compared to the Gold Coast. The central coast is rich in sporting history unlike the Gold Coast. The Central Coast already has lots of community support whilst the Gold Coast is just tourists or people on short stays it’s a transitional society. I can’t see how they are worse than the Gold Coast.

A Perth team must be considered in the next talks of expansion Adelaide has a lot of work to do, the Warriors already represent all of New Zealand and a second Melbourne team is ludicrous

 

[Stallion]

The central coast isn’t a community that has world class theme parks, nightlife, tourist attractions etc like the Gold Coast does so there is minimial distractions for players compared to the Gold Coast. The central coast is rich in sporting history unlike the Gold Coast. The Central Coast already has lots of community support whilst the Gold Coast is just tourists or people on short stays it’s a transitional society. I can’t see how they are worse than the Gold Coast.

A Perth team must be considered in the next talks of expansion Adelaide has a lot of work to do, the Warriors already represent all of New Zealand and a second Melbourne team is ludicrous

Agree with Central Coast but not to kick out another club. As Great dane put it "The Gold Coast is strategically important" in that part of Australia. Perth is overdue but logistically more difficult. Adelaide does need significant development work and promotion of the code. And I agree with Great Dane, Melbourne,, in time, could sustain another club and create a great local derby and rivalry over time.

 

[King hit]

Another team in Melbourne? You know it’s only been in recent years there has been rugby league shown at an appropriate time and adequate league exposure. AFL is a cult there and trying to sustain 2 rugby league teams there would divide the supporters who are already Storm diehards.

 

[Stallion]

Another team in Melbourne? You know it’s only been in recent years there has been rugby league shown at an appropriate time and adequate league exposure. AFL is a cult there and trying to sustain 2 rugby league teams there would divide the supporters who are already Storm diehards.

I visit Melbourne every year and have encountered junior rugby league clubs at the end of the south eastern railway line. Their is significant progress being made in Melbourne. We are talking into the future. A club coming out of the working class districts of Melbourne suburbia is a good aim. It would foster a great rivalry in time and grow the code as well. An alternative to AFL has an apetite in Mekbourne despite the bias of the press. You will note that the tv ratings for rugby-league in Melbourne are significantlt greater in numbers than the tv ratings for AFL in Sydney. The market is there and is growing. Its a great code rugby league and is easy to watch. The viewing figures suggest this is so.