Gold Coast Bears/Nth Sydney/Gosford

[The Great Dane]

You just dont get it Great Dane! The reason why this competition is great is the Sydney clubs. You destroy them you destroy the credibility and validity of the NRL before the publics eyes! More clubs are the answer. Implosion is not! The AFL scenario is coveted in a book called " Football Ltd" by Garry Linnett. IT tells why the AFL never went down the implosion path and funnily enough their foundation clubs arecall about and bigger and better than ever. And you want to lose that advantage the code had in Sydney? Reckless and ignorant thinking from you Great Dane!

LOL, you either don't have much faith in the sports ability to sell its self, don't really like the sport only your club (in which case f##k you, we don't need you and the sport will be fine without you), or have it so back the f##king front that it's hilarious!!!

The competition doesn't sell cause of the clubs, it sells cause the sport is popular and played at a high and entertaining standard!

If you took the Panthers and Roosters and replaced them with the Penguins and Ducks the competition would still be popular cause once you boil it down people aren't showing up for the clubs, they are showing up for the entertainment, it's the entertainment that sells, and if the NRL isn't competitive with other forms of entertainment it'll die, and that is basically where it's at.
If you need evidence of that just look at the NFL, they are dying on their arse in America cause they've slowly made their competition only cater to less and less people that support a handful of behemoth clubs and the NFL is paying for it dearly. Eventually the NRL will pay for only being attractive to handful of people in Sydney and they'll pay for it soon too, but the difference between the NRL and NFL is that the NFL can sustain the losses a lot longer then the NRL ever could.

What having so many clubs in Sydney has done is it's destroyed any opportunity that the sport has had to establish it's self and build the "credibility and validity of the NRL before the publics eyes" in places outside of Sydney, and it's compartmentalised the sport in Sydney to the point that almost none of the individual compartments of the sport in Sydney can support it's self cause the support base has been split so much.
Now, that wasn't a problem for a long time cause it didn't cost much to run a club and their wasn't much competition for eyes, but slowly over time the world has become a more and more global economy, and more and more competitors have been able to beam their product into the NRL's little fiefdom for cheaper and cheaper and with less and less difficulty. So in other words the NRL used to be a very big fish in a very small pond, but now the ocean is consuming the pond and the NRL is about to be a tiny fish in the ocean.

If the NRL doesn't grow it's support base and the value of it's product it's going to be eaten by a bigger fish, and when I say a bigger fish I don't mean the AFL, it won't be the AFL that kills the NRL it'll be the EPL, NBA, etc, or some new entrepreneurial comp that sees a gap in a rapidly changing market and fills it.

The problem that the NRL has is it can't grow it's support base to any great degree cause it's got way to many resources invested into the Sydney market to actually be able to invest enough into a broader support base, it'd need to take some of it's resources out of the Sydney market and redistribute them more evenly, but it can't do that without a little pain and it's too scared of that short term pain to be able to grab onto the long term gain, and it'll pay for that fear in the long run.
It's a lot like an appendix actually, cause that is what the saturation of Sydney currently is to the NRL, it's an inflamed appendix, it used to necessary for survival but now it isn't and because of it's lack of use it tends to get inflamed and it's going to kill the whole organism if it's not cut out of the organism, but the NRL is so scared of the pain that the surgery will cause that it is avoiding the surgery and is trying herbal medicine BS that doesn't work and it's going to die cause of it if it doesn't just get the surgery...
And the AFL is in the exact same boat...

Also Gary Linnett (whoever he is) is either an idiot or he doesn't have a clue what he is talking about!

In the last 30 years the AFL has tried to get 3 Melbourne clubs to relocate to Canberra (2 in the last 15 years), 2 Melbourne clubs to relocate to either Brisbane or the GC (both in the last 10-15 years) and at least 2-3 to relocate to Tasmania, and that is only the ones I can think of off the top of my head and/or that we know about...

 

[The Great Dane]

Pray tell? ! Why isn't Suncorp not suitable.Im sure they would use it to great advantage. In fact get crowds much bigger crowds than some other tenant codes and also equal if not more than the muchly detested Broncos.

Ahh I never said that Suncorp isn't suitable...

But if the NRL was going to lobby for a new stadium in SEQ then another stadium Brisbane would be more valuable to them than a new stadium on the SSC... I never said that they should actually lobby for another stadium in Brisbane...

You know for a teacher you have terrible comprehension skills, then again considering how crap the education system is in this country maybe I shouldn't be surprised.

And the compelling added value of the Central Coast Bears is twofold! Not only do they include the Central Coast region they also regain the 100000s Bears fans that are now lost to the code. Theirs also an increased player participation angle in both the Central Coast and North Sydney areas!

So you are saying that we can get a whole bunch of stuff that we already have or could get whole lot more of a whole lot cheaper and without strings attached by expanding to other areas... Yeah sounds like a great idea...

I don't think any of your alternatives provide two markets. (One regained and one secured) Please note this is not say that Brisbane 2 (already in agreeance) and Perth are not in the picture either. Four more clubs are required and these will add value to this great but stagnant competition.

They don't need to provide two market you fool cause they add one market that is bigger and/or more valuable then the your two markets put together!

Not that the CC Bears would add two markets anyway cause we both know that the Bears would just use the CC as a stepping stone to eventually get back into Sydney in the exact same way that the Dragons used to Gong to as a stepping stone back into Sydney.

 

[Stallion]

LOL, you either don't have much faith in the sports ability to sell its self, don't really like the sport only your club (in which case
f##k you, we don't need you and the sport will be fine without you), or have it so back the f##king front that it's hilarious!!!

The competition doesn't sell cause of the clubs, it sells cause the sport is popular and played at a high and entertaining standard!

If you took the Panthers and Roosters and replaced them with the Penguins and Ducks the competition would still be popular cause once you boil it down people aren't showing up for the clubs, they are showing up for the entertainment, it's the entertainment that sells, and if the NRL isn't competitive with other forms of entertainment it'll die, and that is basically where it's at.
If you need evidence of that just look at the NFL, they are dying on their arse in America cause they've slowly made their competition only cater to less and less people that support a handful of behemoth clubs and the NFL is paying for it dearly. Eventually the NRL will pay for only being attractive to handful of people in Sydney and they'll pay for it soon too, but the difference between the NRL and NFL is that the NFL can sustain the losses a lot longer then the NRL ever could.

What having so many clubs in Sydney has done is it's destroyed any opportunity that the sport has had to establish it's self and build the "credibility and validity of the NRL before the publics eyes" in places outside of Sydney, and it's compartmentalised the sport in Sydney to the point that almost none of the individual compartments of the sport in Sydney can support it's self cause the support base has been split so much.
Now, that wasn't a problem for a long time cause it didn't cost much to run a club and their wasn't much competition for eyes, but slowly over time the world has become a more and more global economy, and more and more competitors have been able to beam their product into the NRL's little fiefdom for cheaper and cheaper and with less and less difficulty. So in other words the NRL used to be a very big fish in a very small pond, but now the ocean is consuming the pond and the NRL is about to be a tiny fish in the ocean.

If the NRL doesn't grow it's support base and the value of it's product it's going to be eaten by a bigger fish, and when I say a bigger fish I don't mean the AFL, it won't be the AFL that kills the NRL it'll be the EPL, NBA, etc, or some new entrepreneurial comp that sees a gap in a rapidly changing market and fills it.

The problem that the NRL has is it can't grow it's support base to any great degree cause it's got way to many resources invested into the Sydney market to actually be able to ........


You mention "a little pain". Its negative repercussions against the code if u tamper with longstanding and widely popular clubs is massive!
Have you any idea how fragile rugby league is in the world scheme of things? Not only are you advocating the dismantling of the very clubs that have made this competition popular you are comparing Australias massive geography and small population to that of the USA? Similar size in geography with over 10 times the amount in population of Australia! To this day the NRL is the highest crowd drawing domestic rugby(both codes) competition in the world. And you trivialize the rich history and foundations of this popularity. You are wrong if you think your policy of implosion to an already great and well.known competition makes sense! Expansion with more clubs is the safe and prudent way to go. New markets can.be gained and you sustain current markets. Pretty simple and it was working until the News Ltd backed superleague fiasco occured . Go figure! The code was going forward significantly when expanding into twenty teams over twenty years ago and then the carve up came with a flawed agreement that acceeded to News Ltd's destructive agenda. Your logic is just finishing off News Ltd's dirty work. PS. Your changing of well known Sydney club brands from Panthers & Roosters to Penguins & Ducks show you have neglible grasp of knowing what makes a club popular to their fans. Your logic; "Oh yeah ! Lets change this? Noone will mind! Everything will.be fine! ".. The implications of imploding the code at its foundation is just that! You implode the code at its base! Australia is very different to the USA and elsewhere. Those Sydney clubs you dismiss are the basis of why generations of fans follow the code. It's a great code but needs cultural significance and integrity.

 

[The Great Dane]

The central coast isn’t a community that has world class theme parks, nightlife, tourist attractions etc like the Gold Coast does so there is minimial distractions for players compared to the Gold Coast. The central coast is rich in sporting history unlike the Gold Coast. The Central Coast already has lots of community support whilst the Gold Coast is just tourists or people on short stays it’s a transitional society. I can’t see how they are worse than the Gold Coast.

Neither is Perth, Brisbane, Adelaide, etc...

So again what exactly has the CC got going for it that a big city doesn't have and more?

A Perth team must be considered in the next talks of expansion Adelaide has a lot of work to do

What more are they supposed to do?

It's very hard to make McDonald's the most popular fast food in town if there isn't a McDonald's in the town but there is a KFC.

It's not a potential expansion areas job to sell the product that they don't have or own to themselves, it's our product to sell to them not the other way around and it's very hard for us to sell it to them if we haven't set up shop in their town...

So again what exactly do you want them to do?

the Warriors already represent all of New Zealand

In real terms no they don't.

They represent NZ in name only, in reality they only represent Auckland.

And one club in the whole of the country of NZ isn't even enough to establish the sport or the NRL in that country as a viable alternative to RU, it isn't even enough to exploit the countries TV rights value to there full extent.

NZ needs 3 clubs at least, it could support up to 5-6 if we wanted it to.

and a second Melbourne team is ludicrous

Firstly, why is it ludicrous?

Secondly, who said that another Melbourne club should be added now ahead of other markets such as Perth, Adelaide, etc, I didn't?

Thirdly, it's still a better option and adds more value to the NRL than a CC club, and that is all that I was saying before.

 

[Stallion]

Ahh I never said that Suncorp isn't suitable...

But if the NRL was going to lobby for a new stadium in SEQ then another stadium Brisbane would be more valuable to them than a new stadium on the SSC... I never said that they should actually lobby for another stadium in Brisbane...

You know for a teacher you have terrible comprehension skills, then again considering how crap the education system is in this country maybe I shouldn't be surprised.



So you are saying that we can get a whole bunch of stuff that we already have or could get whole lot more of a whole lot cheaper and without strings attached by expanding to other areas... Yeah sounds like a great idea...



They don't need to provide two market you fool cause they add one market that is bigger and/or more valuable then the your two markets put together!

Not that the CC Bears would add two markets anyway cause we both know that the Bears would just use the CC as a stepping stone to eventually get back into Sydney in the exact same way that the Dragons used to Gong to as a stepping stone back into Sydney.

When referring to markets I should have mentioned "established" markets. In fact that is what your implosion logic destroys when tampering with 100plus year old clubs! And you trivialize two markets ? One of them being the most influential business sector in the country and the other a city/region in its own right!? I think 10 clubs for Sydney, the Illawarra and Central Coast regions are just shy of a good number but will do. See how well the code will go if you tamper with these longstanding culturally significant clubs? The competition will implode just like rugby league's existence in North Sydney. (Hardly visible!). If that's your idea of progress and the price you think the game can afford? Leave me out of it thanks!

 

[LeagueXIII]

What does the CC add that a Perth, Brisbane, or Adelaide doesn't?

All the benefits that you could get from a CC club can be gained from a club in a large new market, not all the benefits that could be gained by a club in large new market could be gained by a club on the CC, and all the benefits from clubs in new markets come with either the negatives or the strings attached that a CC club would carry with them...



The salary cap being the size that it is and those huge grants wont last forever, the NRL wont be able to afford it soon enough with TV dying and streaming taking over...

Adelaide is not a high priority, RL is virtually unheard of there. Perth and Brisbane 2 will be in the comp soon enough I have no doubt.

The grants will be there don't worry. The money will come from elsewhere, one door opens etc. Remember when cigarette sponsorship, then leagues club grants shrank, it was all doom and gloom. The game comes up with other strategies that's why we have administrators.

 

[Foreign Legion]

I've always thought why dont Leaguues Club get more involved in NRL. For example each leagues club have billboaed space at games or even on jerseys or shorts

 

[Stallion]

I've always thought why dont Leaguues Club get more involved in NRL. For example each leagues club have billboaed space at games or even on jerseys or shorts

It has happened. I think Parramatta and North Sydney had their Leagues club on their jumpers at certain times. But yes I understand what you are getting at. Great exposure!

 

[The Great Dane]

When referring to markets I should have mentioned "established" markets.

Oh I see, we should only "expand" in established RL markets.

Do you understand what the word expansion means?
Cause what you are suggesting isn't expansion, it's dividing the consumer base...

Sometimes dividing the consumer base is a good idea, even a great idea, like when there's more demand then you could possibly every hope of supplying, but considering that the Sydney market is already massively over supplied with RL content (the NRL's product) it probably isn't a good idea to add even more supply to an already over saturated market is it...

In fact that is what your implosion logic destroys when tampering with 100plus year old clubs!

Damn straight I want to tamper with 100 plus year old businesses that haven't been sustainable for 50-60 years plus of their existence cause they've always had someone willing to prop them up and bail them out.

You know why I want to do that? Cause they aren't viable businesses in their own right and that is a very dangerous and bad thing cause if the NRL falls on hard times everybody falls on hard times, so we need to make some changes so they are viable businesses in their own right (and that goes for clubs outside of Sydney as well), and the only way we're going to do that is if we change some of their business practices, and maybe remove some of their competition!
Or in other words we've got no choice but to tamper with the clubs and the competition...

BTW, most of the "100 plus year old clubs" that you are talking about aren't 100 years plus old, only two of them are...

And you trivialize two markets ?

Nope I didn't trivialise anything, just pointed out that the any one of the markets I was talking about is bigger then your two markets put together by themselves (except Wellington, but Wellington provides other strategic benefits, like direct lobbying power right on the NZ governments doorstep, and greater supply to the NZ market) and all of them have a hell of lot more going for them then your two markets.

One of them being the most influential business sector in the country

One of the biggest most influential business sectors in the country that already has multiple clubs extremely well placed to directly represent it, Manly in particular is the best placed, and with a bit of "tampering" with Manlys' business practices they could be set up to directly represent all of that region pretty much overnight, but that might piss the Rort off considering that they are right in bed with that part of town...

and the other a city/region in its own right!?

A region that can't support an A-league club on it's own, so it's got f##k all chance of supporting an NRL club that costs a hell of a lot more then an A-League club, but carry on with your pipe dreams of a world dominate suburban Sydney clubs that can't even dominate their own backyards...

I think 10 clubs for Sydney, the Illawarra and Central Coast regions are just shy of a good number but will do.

Pft, don't patronise me with the Illawarra crap, the dragons don't give a flying f##k about the Illawarra and have been and are doing everything in their power to slowly distance themselves from the Illawarra, they just knew that they couldn't get away with it if they abandoned the place overnight.

Also carving a market with a population of 5.3 mil into 10 smaller pieces is a great idea just like splitting it between 9 has worked fantastically so far so ten will be even better I'm sure.... Splitting a finite amount of resources between 10 groups is a great idea, having a bunch of really weak clubs that live hand to mouth instead of a handful of strong ones that are behemoths in the Australian corporate landscape was a great idea... Such a great idea that every major sports competition in the world has done it in their major cities all over the world! Oh wait they haven't cause they haven't been run by myopic self interested idiots that don't have the faintest clue what they are doing for the last 100 years...

See how well the code will go if you tamper with these longstanding culturally significant clubs? The competition will implode just like rugby league's existence in North Sydney. (Hardly visible!). If that's your idea of progress and the price you think the game can afford? Leave me out of it thanks!

Why hasn't the game imploded then?

I mean in the past the league has "tampered" with plenty of clubs, Cumberland, Newcastle Rebels, Glebe, Annandale, Uni, Newtown, Balmain, Western Suburbs, St. George, if you take other regions into account the damage to traditional clubs has been monumental (but I forget only RL and brands from Sydney matter), and yet given time all of those scars healed and the game and the competition was always in a better position for the changes in the long run.
It'll be no different with North Sydney given time for the generations to cycle through, if their was a plan for the change like their was in most of the other cases I presented above then I imagine North Sydney probably would have healed and everybody would have moved on already...

 

[Stallion]

Oh I see, we should only "expand" in established RL markets.

Do you understand what the word expansion means?
Cause what you are suggesting isn't expansion, it's dividing the consumer base...

Sometimes dividing the consumer base is a good idea, even a great idea, like when there's more demand then you could possibly every hope of supplying, but considering that the Sydney market is already massively over supplied with RL content (the NRL's product) it probably isn't a good idea to add even more supply to an already over saturated market is it...



Damn straight I want to tamper with 100 plus year old businesses that haven't been sustainable for 50-60 years plus of their existence cause they've always had someone willing to prop them up and bail them out.

You know why I want to do that? Cause they aren't viable businesses in their own right and that is a very dangerous and bad thing cause if the NRL falls on hard times everybody falls on hard times, so we need to make some changes so they are viable businesses in their own right (and that goes for clubs outside of Sydney as well), and the only way we're going to do that is if we change some of their business practices, and maybe remove some of their competition!
Or in other words we've got no choice but to tamper with the clubs and the competition...

BTW, most of the "100 plus year old clubs" that you are talking about aren't 100 years plus old, only two of them are...



Nope I didn't trivialise anything, just pointed out that the any one of the markets I was talking about is bigger then your two markets put together by themselves (except Wellington, but Wellington provides other strategic benefits, like direct lobbying power right on the NZ governments doorstep, and greater supply to the NZ market) and all of them have a hell of lot more going for them then your two markets.



One of the biggest most influential business sectors in the country that already has multiple clubs extremely well placed to directly represent it, Manly in particular is the best placed, and with a bit of "tampering" with Manlys' business practices they could be set up to directly represent all of that region pretty much overnight, but that might piss the Rort off considering that they are right in bed with that part of town...



A region that can't support an A-league club on it's own, so it's got f##k all chance of supporting an NRL club that costs a hell of a lot more then an A-League club, but carry on with your pipe dreams of a world dominate suburban Sydney clubs that can't even dominate their own backyards...



Pft, don't patronise me with the Illawarra crap, the dragons don't give a flying f##k about the Illawarra and have been and are doing everything in their power to slowly distance themselves from the Illawarra, they just knew that they couldn't get away with it if they abandoned the place overnight.

Also carving a market with a population of 5.3 mil into 10 smaller pieces is a great idea just like splitting it between 9 has worked fantastically so far so ten will be even better I'm sure.... Splitting a finite amount of resources between 10 groups is a great idea, having a bunch of really weak clubs that live hand to mouth instead of a handful of strong ones that are behemoths in the Australian corporate landscape was a great idea... Such a great idea that every major sports competition in the world has done it in their major cities all over the world! Oh wait they haven't cause they haven't been run by myopic self interested idiots that don't have the faintest clue what they are doing for the last 100 years...



Why hasn't the game imploded then?

I mean in the past the league has "tampered" with plenty of clubs, Cumberland, Newcastle Rebels, Glebe, Annandale, Uni, Newtown, Balmain, Western Suburbs, St. George, if you take other regions into account the damage to traditional clubs has been monumental (but I forget only RL and brands from Sydney matter), and yet given time all of those scars healed and the game and the competition was always in a better position for the changes in the long run.
It'll be no different with North Sydney given time for the generations to cycle through, if their was a plan for the change like their was in most of the other cases I presented above then I imagine North Sydney probably would have healed and everybody would have moved on already...

Lol. You have twisted so many aspects of my contribution I don't know where to start!? I'll dwell on a few of the blatant.dumb points: 1."given time" code for lets lose all of these current supporters and hope everyone will come on board with our newly created clubs! In the meantime the once loyal fans go to other codes! GREAT IDEA! That will work for the other codes .2. "Self interested idiots"- code for responsible and aware administrators that know how vital the very popular Sydney clubs are and what they mean to Aussie culture and sport rivalry. Lets ridicule these people and rid us of the family farm. GREAT IDEA!. That's just eliminated any credibility and substance the competition can rely on in tough times. It will keep the News ltd agenda on track and one day not many people will be aware the most popular domestic rugby (both codes)competition was ever based in Sydney 3. "No one misses the clubs that are out"- code for lets get rid of some of the most iconic and well known names in Sydney like Balmain and North Sydney- code for: we were not aware that these clubs had widespread POPULARITY and fans all over Australia so lets delete them! No one will mind! GREAT IDEA! You just lost over 500000 supporters of Balmain and North Sydney. Oh forgot to throw in the poor old West Magpies figure (150000 at least-Australia wide). Yes these clubs that grew immensely in popularity due to the 70s & 80s tv exposure are not marketable, respected or familiar to the general public. GREAT IDEAS. But hold on we can create a side and everyone left will be happy!? WHO'S LEFT! NO ONE OR VERY LITTLE! GREAT IDEAS! SHAME ABOUT THE CODE? IT HAD SO MUCH POTENTIAL BUT IT DIDN'T RESPECT WHAT MADE IT GREAT?! The happy News ltd cohorts along with the other aspiring vulture like codes enjoy the rugby league corpse. 4. "the area can't support an A-league club" - code for: We know rugby league has massive support there but lets use a struggling soccer side as our foil for an absolute money making club that would add value and benefit the code. GREAT IDEA. that will throw them off the scent. 5. "Oversaturated market " - code for : lets not use mathematics & geography and tell everyone that there are too many clubs in Sydney, Wollongong and Gosford. That will work . People cant count ! We know they can count in Melbourne with a million less people and ten clubs with all clubs standing alone and getting bigger. SHHHHH!dont let that one out! GREAT IDEA!
Sorry I forgot one more: 6. -"why hasn't the game imploded"- code for we don't know about the significant drop in junior numbers, total aggregate crowd figures and total tv audience numbers in a city that has a growing population and still Australias largest market. Lest we forget the Illawarra and Central Coast as well! Mmmmm. But if we pretend it's not happening this will be ok won't it? Yeah GREAT IDEA! No one will know. It was a pretty good code to watch you know! We will miss it! No not really, I'm following other football codes now!

 

[The Great Dane]

Adelaide is not a high priority, RL is virtually unheard of there. Perth and Brisbane 2 will be in the comp soon enough I have no doubt.

How do you propose that we make Adelaide a city with a population of 1.3 mil a "priority" if we refuse to sell our product to them?

What, do you think that one day the people of Brisbane and/or Sydney were like 'I have a hankering to watch a game of RL, a sport I've never heard of before!' then the NSWRL and BRL were born?
No some people in Sydney took a risk and set up businesses that they thought were a good idea, and those businesses sold RL and it was to be a direct competitor to RU, and then slowly over time the product that those businesses were selling became hugely popular in Sydney and Brisbane.
It doesn't work the other way around, the product is presented to the people and they either enjoy it and buy it, or the business goes out of business, the people don't invent and decide that they like the product and designate a person/group to sell it to them...

Personally I'm one of those people that thinks that RL is a good idea and can be a good business, and that it can work anywhere if it's done properly and supported properly, but if you don't agree that's fine...

Why you'd want to "expand" into a market that not only is less than half the size of places like Adelaide but is already buying the NRL's product in mass to boot, over a market such as Adelaide a much larger market that could support a one of our businesses and with a little bit of work would be ripe for the taking I don't know...

The grants will be there don't worry. The money will come from elsewhere, one door opens etc. Remember when cigarette sponsorship, then leagues club grants shrank, it was all doom and gloom. The game comes up with other strategies that's why we have administrators.

Uh huh, cool story, but it's the grants that almost all of the NRL clubs rely on now for their survival (especially the Sydney clubs) and those grants come from the NRL (as you know), but all the money that the NRL uses to afford those grants comes from selling their TV broadcasting rights, which is fine for now, but TV is a dying medium and very soon the broadcasting companies won't be able to afford to pay that amount of money so the NRL won't be getting the money necessary to support the clubs from the TV companies.

So in the not to distant future the NRL will need to look to the new medium that is usurping TV for it's pay dirt, but there's a big problem, that new medium is streaming, and it's an internet based medium that has a global audience and is run by global businesses, and those streaming businesses aren't going to be very interested in a product that is completely focused on a tiny audience like the NRL when other products like the EPL, NFL, NBA, etc, etc, have huge global audiences and are also competing for the streaming companies dollars for their broadcasting rights.
So the value of the NRLs' streaming rights will inevitably be a lot lower then the current value of their TV streaming rights, so very soon the NRL isn't going to be able to afford the grants that they are giving the clubs cause the don't have large enough exposure for their product to be worth those sorts of numbers to streaming companies and/or sponsors etc anymore.

So the NRL is going to fall behind very soon, it's only a matter of how far behind that they fall, and unless they start to appeal to a much broader fan base then they currently appeal to then they are going to fall a lot further behind then they need to.
For a multitude of reasons they aren't even appealing to a national fan base in their home country (which is a relatively small country to boot) when the rest of their competition in the sports entertainment field is expanding to appeal to international audiences! So they have a hell of a lot of catching up to do if they want to keep going from strength to strength and not a lot of time to do it in, basically they have 15-20 years to start appealing to a significant national and international fan base or they're screwed, and that means that they will have to do make extreme changes and hard decisions now or they are screwed, and even then they are probably screwed anyway if the RFL's expansions into North America are successful, cause they will become the sort after RL product on the global stage and not the NRL, and the NRL has nobody to blame but themselves cause they had a chance to put themselves ahead of the game in the nineties and they blew it...

If they aren't successful in making those changes then they won't be able to afford those grants, then a whole lot of clubs will be screwed, and there'll be a domino effect from there.
If the NRL screws it up and we're lucky another RL product will be successful (probably the RFLs' Super League, but you never know) and they'll expand into the NRL's markets and take them over just like the NRL did to the BRL, Newcastle, Canberra, NZRL, etc, back in the day, if we're unlucky though then in a few generations RL will become a footnote in the history of sport as other sports and competitions grow globally due to opportunities provided to them by streaming, and personally I think that RL could be and deserves so much more then that.

 

[Stallion]

How do you propose that we make Adelaide a city with a population of 1.3 mil a "priority" if we refuse to sell our product to them?

What, do you think that one day the people of Brisbane and/or Sydney were like 'I have a hankering to watch a game of RL, a sport I've never heard of before!' then the NSWRL and BRL were born?
No some people in Sydney took a risk and set up businesses that they thought were a good idea, and those businesses sold RL and it was to be a direct competitor to RU, and then slowly over time the product that those businesses were selling became hugely popular in Sydney and Brisbane.
It doesn't work the other way around, the product is presented to the people and they either enjoy it and buy it, or the business goes out of business, the people don't invent and decide that they like the product and designate a person/group to sell it to them...

Personally I'm one of those people that thinks that RL is a good idea and can be a good business, and that it can work anywhere if it's done properly and supported properly, but if you don't agree that's fine...

Why you'd want to "expand" into a market that not only is less than half the size of places like Adelaide but is already buying the NRL's product in mass to boot, over a market such as Adelaide a much larger market that could support a one of our businesses and with a little bit of work would be ripe for the taking I don't know...



Uh huh, cool story, but it's the grants that almost all of the NRL clubs rely on now for their survival (especially the Sydney clubs) and those grants come from the NRL (as you know), but all the money that the NRL uses to afford those grants comes from selling their TV broadcasting rights, which is fine for now, but TV is a dying medium and very soon the broadcasting companies won't be able to afford to pay that amount of money so the NRL won't be getting the money necessary to support the clubs from the TV companies.

So in the not to distant future the NRL will need to look to the new medium that is usurping TV for it's pay dirt, but there's a big problem, that new medium is streaming, and it's an internet based medium that has a global audience and is run by global businesses, and those streaming businesses aren't going to be very interested in a product that is completely focused on a tiny audience like the NRL when other products like the EPL, NFL, NBA, etc, etc, have huge global audiences and are also competing for the streaming companies dollars for their broadcasting rights.
So the value of the NRLs' streaming rights will inevitably be a lot lower then the current value of their TV streaming rights, so very soon the NRL isn't going to be able to afford the grants that they are giving the clubs cause the don't have large enough exposure for their product to be worth those sorts of numbers to streaming companies and/or sponsors etc anymore.

So the NRL is going to fall behind very soon, it's only a matter of how far behind that they fall, and unless they start to appeal to a much broader fan base then they currently appeal to then they are going to fall a lot further behind then they need to.
For a multitude of reasons they aren't even appealing to a national fan base in their home country (which is a relatively small country to boot) when the rest of their competition in the sports entertainment field is expanding to appeal to international audiences! So they have a hell of a lot of catching up to do if they want to keep going from strength to strength and not a lot of time to do it in, basically they have 15-20 years to start appealing to a significant national and international fan base or they're screwed, and that means that they will have to do make extreme changes and hard decisions now or they are screwed, and even then they are probably screwed anyway if the RFL's expansions into North America are successful, cause they will become the sort after RL product on the global stage and not the NRL, and the NRL has nobody to blame but themselves cause they had a chance to put themselves ahead of the game in the nineties and they blew it...

If they aren't successful in making those changes then they won't be able to afford those grants, then a whole lot of clubs will be screwed, and there'll be a domino effect from there.
If the NRL screws it up and we're lucky another RL product will be successful (probably the RFLs' Super League, but you never know) and they'll expand into the NRL's markets and take them over just like the NRL did to the BRL, Newcastle, Canberra, NZRL, etc, back in the day, if we're unlucky though then in a few generations RL will become a footnote in the history of sport as other sports and competitions grow globally due to opportunities provided to them by streaming, and personally I think that RL could be and deserves so much more then that.

For a start you wont be able to sell JACKSHIT if you dont respect the foundation clubs of this competition. Thats what gives the comp its credibility and status. You lose that FORGET THE REST!

 

[The Great Dane]

Lol. You have twisted so many aspects of my contribution I don't know where to start!?

Lol, lol, lol, lol, lol! The irony of you saying that is hilarious!

Considering that you never respond to the points that people make in their posts unless you agree with them and always ignore or twist peoples words to fit your rehearsed 'arguments', the irony is just great!

I didn't twist a damn thing that you said, and you know it.

I'll dwell on a few of the blatant.dumb points: 1."given time" code for lets lose all of these current supporters and hope everyone will come on board with our newly created clubs!

Nope it's "code" for emotional attachment isn't heritable and people die, so that means that fans and fan bases die, but their kids and grand kids aren't lost to the sport and if you play your cards right you can get those kids on board with a different club then their parents or grandparents were on board with just like you get any new fan on board, this happens in families all the time BTW with kids jumping on different teams to their parents and grandparents.

So the idea of a wasteland for the sport is fleeting at best and idea that losing a 10-15k fan base now in an area can't be replaced "given time" is defeatist and frankly asinine.

Also I have never ever suggested A: that we kill off any club outright or B: that we try to get kids or supporters to jump on new clubs that replaced the traditional old clubs, only that we reorganise the structure of the competition and rejig some of the clubs to appeal to a larger fan base, that's it.

In the meantime the once loyal fans go to other codes! Great idea! That will work for the other codes

Prove it! Cause plenty of people have tried and nobody has!

There is no hard evidence of fans of a sport taking up another in mass after their club has been killed off, and of the ones that did they almost all show an interest in the other sport prior to the club being killed off!

.2. "Sell interested idiots- code for responsible and aware adminstrators that know how vital the very popular Sydney clubs are and what they mean to Aussie culture and sport rivalry. Lets ridicule these people and rid us of the family farm. Great idea . That's just eliminated any credibility and substance the competition can rely on in tough times. It will keep the News ltd agenda on track and one day not many people will.be aware the most popular domestic rugby (both codes)competition was ever based in Sydney.

Lol!

Nope, that's code for the mafia of ex-football players and people intertwined with Sydney clubs that have spent the last 100 years putting their clubs and their clubs interests before the sport as a whole.

3. No one misses the clubs that are out- code for lets get rid of some of the most iconic and well known names in Sydney like Balmain and North Sydney- code for we were not aware that these clubs had widespread populaiity and fans all.over Australia so lets delete them! No one will.mind! Great work.

Firstly I never said that " no one misses the clubs that are out", secondly I never suggested that any clubs should be killed off out right, thirdly and finally, outside of NSW, the ACT and Queensland there isn't a significant supporters base of any Sydney club!

I defy you to find more than a few thousand to 10k supporters of all the NRL clubs put together (including the ones outside of Sydney) made of people born, raise, and residing outside of NSW, QLD, ACT, and VIC in Australia.

You just lost over 500000 supporters of Balmain and North Sydney. Oh forgot to throw in the poor old West Magpies figure (150000 at least-Australia wide).

LOL!

Bull f##king sh!t there was over 500k Bears and Tigers supporters lol, and a mil Magpies supporters is just LOL, just lol.

Maybe if you used the absolute loosest of loosest definitions of supporter, like if you did a survey of the whole country and asked everyone who their favourite NSWRL team was and a whole heap of people were like 'I'm from Balmain so I support the Tigers' but they'd never watched a game, bought any merchandise or tickets, etc, but even then you'd be more then pushing it a little...

And Jesus I think the I would have noticed if there 250k+ Bears fans back in the day, North Sydney Oval would have had to be made a hell of a lot bigger lol.

Yes these clubs that grew immensely in popularity due to the 70s & 80s tv exposure are not marketable, respected or familiar to the general public. GREAT IDEAS. But hold on we can create a side and everyine left will be happy!? WHO'S LEFT! NO ONE OR VERY LITTLE! GREAT IDEAS SHAME ABOUT THE CODE? IT HAD SO MUCH POTENTIAL BUT IT DIDN'T RESPECT WHAT MADE IT GREAT?! The happy News ltd cohorts along with the other aspiring vulture like codes enjoy the rugby league corpse.

I ain't got a clue what this sh!t is saying...

But I would like to give you a bit of a history lesson/story, not that you are going to actually read it anyway, but whatever I may as well do it here.

Did you know that initially News and the Broncos wanted to work with the ARL, and that they didn't want to kill any of the clubs, they wanted to fund a national league that would be on top of the league that already existed and they even wanted the clubs, all the clubs, to own shares in at least on of the "super clubs" in the "Super League" (that's where the name came from BTW) to help fund them and keep them alive.

All of the clubs, every single one, even the ones that the ARL were planning to kill off and your sacred Sydney clubs, would have been given a great chance to survive long into the future except the Crushers, and the SL would have functioned as a representative competition for the best players that qualified for it, the NSWRL/ARL still would have been televised too, but Arko and Quayle, and some of the other members of the old boys club were to proud, stubborn, and/or scared that they might lose their jobs and their control over the sport that was their gravy train, and refused to even give News' proposal a fair hearing at all, cause they would lose complete control over the sport. The rest as you know is history.

Personally I was against the SL proposal at the time, cause I didn't (and still don't) like the idea of a media company having so much power over the administration of the sport, but I did think that they were headed in roughly the right direction with a multi tier system with a more even spread of clubs across those tiers and a focus on getting the sport into as many households in the country as possible.
So I was against it, but at least I was willing to hear them out with an open mind and could see the positives of what they were getting at as well as the negatives, Arko, Quayle, Politis, and the rest weren't even willing to do that or negotiate with them, and weren't even open enough to the idea to take the positives from the idea and use them to build a better competition and cut the legs off the rebellion there and then, they were too scared about themselves and their clubs not being as powerful as they once were.

If at the time I knew what came next (considering that knowledge of News' original plan wasn't made public until roughly halfway through 96 from memory I guess I knew a bit already, but even then we didn't have the faintest clue what was coming next), the war, the peace deals, and the other outcomes at the time and after the fact, I would have been right behind the SL, cause at least under that deal, that totally imperfect deal where Rupert Murdoch would basically have the final say on all things RL, all the clubs would have survived and the sport would have been in a good spot to grow the sport and expand further.

Unless they were complete idiots, Arko, Quayle, etc, knew roughly what was coming next if they didn't accept the deal or even try to negotiate with News at all and what the potential consequences were, and they still pushed ahead cause it wasn't and isn't about what's best for the sport, or even the league with blokes like them, never has been, and it never will be, it's about their club, and what they can get from the game, and keeping their clubs in the best position possible, etc, etc.

So maybe News, Ribot, the Broncos were wrong, and I agree that they were wrong, but at least in theory they wanted what was best for everybody and the sport as a whole and not just what was best for them...

 

[LeagueXIII]

Adelaide can play in a lower tier comp also clubs can play a game or two there even a test match, in 20-30 years they can join the NRL. Comparing todays established sport to the way sport was in the early 1900's is like apples and oranges. I live in Melbourne and the love of Aussie Rules there is greater if not stronger than here. They are parochial and couldn't give a rats about league. They have two AFL clubs and a vibrant local comp.

 

[The Great Dane]

For a start you wont be able to sell JACKSHIT if you dont respect the foundation clubs of this competition. Thats what gives the comp its credibility and status. You lose that FORGET THE REST!

Prove it!

Or at least make a reasonable argument, cause I can tell you right now for a fact that at least Nine has said that the Broncos and Storm individually are bringing in a huge part of the TV rights value, more probably more then 5-6 or so Sydney clubs put together, and it makes complete commercial sense that they would think and say something like that, though I couldn't source the quote cause it's ancient and I can't remember which paper it was in let alone who the writer was or which article it's in at this point.

I don't want to even guess how much sponsorship values jump just for having them in the comp and the direct exposure they bring by being in the Melbourne and Brisbane market.

The sooner you realise that broadcasters, sponsors, corporates, etc, don't give a flying f##k about how old a club is or who they are and only care about the exposure that they bring, ratings, clicks, etc, etc, the better...

 

[jim_57]

Central Coast needs a current club to "make it their own". Roosters may have a golden oppurtunity when/if Allianz is redeveloped, play 4+ games there and a targeted marketing approach including Central Coast memberships etc. Then when Allianz is redone they can opt to keep 2-4 games a year on the Central Coast and try to convince others to host them there.

List of areas ahead of Central Coast for a stand alone NEW team (Relocation is an option).

• Perth
• Brisbane 2
• NZ 2
• Adelaide

Even more fanciful options like

• Brisbane 3
• Melbourne 2
• NZ 3
• PNG
• Fiji
• Tokyo
• Gold Coast 2
• Central QLD
• Hawaii 6-0
• Singapore Poor Singers
• Manilla Vanilla
• Bali Backpackers XIII...

Need I go on?

 

[The Great Dane]

Adelaide can play in a lower tier comp also clubs can play a game or two there even a test match, in 20-30 years they can join the NRL. Comparing todays established sport to the way sport was in the early 1900's is like apples and oranges. I live in Melbourne and the love of Aussie Rules there is greater if not stronger than here. They are parochial and couldn't give a rats about league. They have two AFL clubs and a vibrant local comp.

That still hasn't answered the question of how you plan to grow the sport in Adelaide if you don't plan to invest anything into growing the sport there...

But anyway, how about instead of that the Adelaide team plays in the NRL, and we use the extra money that they bring to the TV rights, sponsorship value, etc, and/or the money that the NRL was using to give grants to the excess Sydney clubs to support them, and use that money to support the Adelaide club in the NRL until they establish themselves, and put the excess Sydney clubs in a lower tier comp? Maybe they could go into the NSWcup...

Cause all the expenses of an interstate club with none of the return for the investment that you'd get from having them is a comp with some segnificant exposure like the NRL seems stupid to me, like throwing good money after bad, unless you are suggesting that the NRL actually invest in growing the lower tiers and getting them greater exposure on TV? That seems unlikely to me considering that you are so gung-ho about the Sydney clubs, cause investment in juniors or the lower tiers instead of every cent being poured into the top tier has been sacrilege to most of the NRL clubs, but especially the Sydney NRL clubs (minus the Panthers).

 

[Stormwarrior82]

You just dont get it Great Dane! The reason why this competition is great is the Sydney clubs. You destroy them you destroy the credibility and validity of the NRL before the publics eyes! More clubs are the answer. Implosion is not! The AFL scenario is coveted in a book called " Football Ltd" by Garry Linnett. IT tells why the AFL never went down the implosion path and funnily enough their foundation clubs arecall about and bigger and better than ever. And you want to lose that advantage the code had in Sydney? Reckless and ignorant thinking from you Great Dane!

The Nrl comps great only because of the Sydney clubs? Do you actually read what you write? If it wasn’t for the teams outside of Sydney it would just be a local comp. The clubs outside of Sydney give the Nrl credibility not the other way around. The qld origin team also says hello. Imagine the quality of football if there was 2-4 more 100 yr old foundation qld teams. Probably a couple more immortals.

Apart from your Sydneycentric love fest, the reason you think more Sydney clubs is the answer is because Sydney clubs are hopeless at engaging there fan base.

What I’m still trying to work out and get a answer from you is how do you see the bears wrestling the central coast back off the roosters? The roosters won’t just give it to them. By the end of this new tv deal the roosters would of been there longer than the bears back in there day. If the bears do miraculously get the cc back, there would be kids jilted that the roosters aren’t there. At some point people need to let bygones be bygones. And bears supporters need to forget about central coast. It’s roosters area now. The bears need to focus on there own local area more first anyway. Tap into the NS business district.

 

[Stormwarrior82]

For a start you wont be able to sell JACKSHIT if you dont respect the foundation clubs of this competition. Thats what gives the comp its credibility and status. You lose that FORGET THE REST!

The arl/Nrl has well and truely respected the clubs that grace the competition. The money that has been given to poorly run clubs over the years could start a whole new comp. surely your not proposing special treatment to foundation clubs? Maybe we should also bring back Newtown, Glebe and/or Cumberland because that would give the Nrl even more credibility.

 

[Stallion]

The Nrl comps great only because of the Sydney clubs? Do you actually read what you write? If it wasn’t for the teams outside of Sydney it would just be a local comp. The clubs outside of Sydney give the Nrl credibility not the other way around. The qld origin team also says hello. Imagine the quality of football if there was 2-4 more 100 yr old foundation qld teams. Probably a couple more immortals.

Apart from your Sydneycentric love fest, the reason you think more Sydney clubs is the answer is because Sydney clubs are hopeless at engaging there fan base.

What I’m still trying to work out and get a answer from you is how do you see the bears wrestling the central coast back off the roosters? The roosters won’t just give it to them. By the end of this new tv deal the roosters would of been there longer than the bears back in there day. If the bears do miraculously get the cc back, there would be kids jilted that the roosters aren’t there. At some point people need to let bygones be bygones. And bears supporters need to forget about central coast. It’s roosters area now. The bears need to focus on there own local area more first anyway. Tap into the NS business district.

Without top flight status tge Bears cannot realistically 'tso' into the licsl district. If gaining back the Central Coast (still got BEARS lettering of stadium seats) the Bears are a good chance of re enetring the too flight. This would also bting in their lical business district and area into the mix. The Roosters should be concentrating on their own area which has been neglected. Instead of running away they should be developing and getting the youth into rugby league. Not abandoning their area.