Gold Coast Bears/Nth Sydney/Gosford

[Stallion]

What effect does that have on a clubs history and tradition? None...

You just know and understand the Sydney clubs history and traditions but not the others, and assume that your experiences and opinions of the clubs are widely held when they aren't, so all you are doing is projecting yourself onto the population and then coming to the conclusion that the Sydney clubs are incredibly popular all across the country and that cause of that popularity they need to be protected and pushed to the end.

Of course your whole hypothesis falls apart cause you've projected your thoughts and emotions onto a huge population when in fact that huge population doesn't share your thoughts and emotions.

You just don't get it do you!? It was not the Brisbane comp that other areas wanted to be part of! IT was SYDNEY! By acknowledging that and hopefully understanding that these very SYDNEY BASED clubs were and still are the core attraction of the NRL. Welcome other additional external clubs till the cows come home but SYDNEY CLUBS are crucial in the whole fabric and relevance of this popular competition. Without them the integrity and credibility of this longstanding competition is no more!

 

[flippikat]

Amazingly you have firgotten or deliberately left out that the NRL is based from the Sydney competition. Get that in your head and you may works things properly!

I think you're missing the point of his scenario - it's a "what if" where NSW & Queensland competitions combine in the 1980s, in a roughly even manner - instead of the Broncos & Giants (as they were in 1988) being added to what was essentually the Sydney premiership.

Of course this was unfeasible in reality, due largely to the wealth disparity from all that pokies revenue south of the border... but IF the Queensland clubs were as rich as the Sydney clubs, they could have been in a position to play hardball, dig their heels in and demand even (or near-even) representation in a brand new competition, run by the ARL.

Now there's a "what if" story just waiting to be written.

 

[Stallion]

I think you're missing the point of his scenario - it's a "what if" where NSW & Queensland competitions combine in the 1980s, in a roughly even manner - instead of the Broncos & Giants (as they were in 1988) being added to what was essentually the Sydney premiership.

Of course this was unfeasible in reality, due largely to the wealth disparity from all that pokies revenue south of the border... but IF the Queensland clubs were as rich as the Sydney clubs, they could have been in a position to play hardball, dig their heels in and demand even (or near-even) representation in a brand new competition, run by the ARL.

Now there's a "what if" story just waiting to be written.

Clearly that hasnt happened. The pokies scenario gave Sydney the greater pulling power. That's reality. Respect what has happened . That's what we can do. Not destroy it because its not the way it could have been . Once again I welcome external additional clubs without implosion of the core foundation clubs of this well known and popular competition. That's reality, not what if?

 

[Vee]

So old Sydney clubs have this magic that means they can't be touched, but despite being just as old and just as steeped in history and tradition the old Brisbane clubs don't have the voodoo...

You're so full of shit...

You build up absolute rules then arbitrarily break them when it suits you, you are consistently inconsistent, you demand respect for certain clubs then spit on others, you outright refuse to address refutations, you constantly move the goal posts, etc, etc, etc.

I don't know why we bother with you anymore...

I ignored My Little Pony ages ago and I'm much happier. Don't argue with fools, they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. And on-lookers might not be able to tell the difference.

 

[Stallion]

I ignored My Little Pony ages ago and I'm much happier. Don't argue with fools, they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. And on-lookers might not be able to tell the difference.

Lol. Gutlessness & being in a peanut gallery along with refuting reality and the truth sits well with you.Shame on you.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Understand. But the Sydney comp was what the general publuc admired. And thats what happened. Absolutely a fan of more Qld clubs but the greedy Broncos are thwarting that! More teams are achevable without imploding the foundations of this very popular competition

I think we agree more than we realise here.

Let's rewind to the 80's and erase the Broncos from history. Instead, take the strongest and most Iconic QRL clubs (I would pick Ipswich, Redcliffe, Easts and Wynnum Manly but I'm open to opinions on this) take the strongest and most iconic NSWRL clubs (yes, of course there will be more of them because this is the financial base of the game) and make a new national comp. I don't mind which clubs from either that are picked but I'm thinking you take four brisbane clubs, six or seven Sydney clubs and add Newcastle, Canberra and Gold Coast-Tweed Seagulls. That would be the basis of our new 1988 NRL competition.

- It would preserve the history and tradition of the most iconic clubs in each state
- It would preserve the financial base of the game - Sydney (and it's biggest clubs)
- It would preserve the best of the BRL and ensure that a city isn't devided over a polariing club like the Broncos who had a big hand in SL and are actively blocking a second club in the city

I understand that the second teir isn't as popular but the current day QRL has shown that if done right it can be televised and still be quite popular. For the sake of these clubs, history and fans you could either run separate NSW / QLD Cups or combine them into a national second teir which would hold a fair bit of prestige if you look at the clubs involved (again, these are picked as examples only):

Balmain
North Sydney
Newtown
Western Sydney Magpies
Illawarra Steelers
Penrith Panthers
Cronulla Sharks
Souths Logan Magpies
North Brisbane Devils
Burleigh Bears
Central QLD

Potential expansion bids could have joined the second teir such as Melbourne Storm, Perth Reds, Adelaide Rams and could have been promoted when the time came. Also, existing Sydney & Brisbane clubs could push for expansion if any of the Syd / Bris clubs in the top teir fell on hard times and needed to regroup in NRL 2.

I know we are talking about hypothetical situations but I think if handled correctly in the 80's this could work and we would still have the likes of Balmain, Wests and Illawarra as stand alone clubs and each club could find the level that is right for them.

 

[Stallion]

I think we agree more than we realise here.

Let's rewind to the 80's and erase the Broncos from history. Instead, take the strongest and most Iconic QRL clubs (I would pick Ipswich, Redcliffe, Easts and Wynnum Manly but I'm open to opinions on this) take the strongest and most iconic NSWRL clubs (yes, of course there will be more of them because this is the financial base of the game) and make a new national comp. I don't mind which clubs from either that are picked but I'm thinking you take four brisbane clubs, six or seven Sydney clubs and add Newcastle, Canberra and Gold Coast-Tweed Seagulls. That would be the basis of our new 1988 NRL competition.

- It would preserve the history and tradition of the most iconic clubs in each state
- It would preserve the financial base of the game - Sydney (and it's biggest clubs)
- It would preserve the best of the BRL and ensure that a city isn't devided over a polariing club like the Broncos who had a big hand in SL and are actively blocking a second club in the city

I understand that the second teir isn't as popular but the current day QRL has shown that if done right it can be televised and still be quite popular. For the sake of these clubs, history and fans you could either run separate NSW / QLD Cups or combine them into a national second teir which would hold a fair bit of prestige if you look at the clubs involved (again, these are picked as examples only):

Balmain
North Sydney
Newtown
Western Sydney Magpies
Illawarra Steelers
Penrith Panthers
Cronulla Sharks
Souths Logan Magpies
North Brisbane Devils
Burleigh Bears
Central QLD

Potential expansion bids could have joined the second teir such as Melbourne Storm, Perth Reds, Adelaide Rams and could have been promoted when the time came. Also, existing Sydney & Brisbane clubs could push for expansion if any of the Syd / Bris clubs in the top teir fell on hard times and needed to regroup in NRL 2.

I know we are talking about hypothetical situations but I think if handled correctly in the 80's this could work and we would still have the likes of Balmain, Wests and Illawarra as stand alone clubs and each club could find the level that is right for them.

I see the hypothetical scenario however its not reality. I would suggest that the fans of Balmain, wests etc would not welcome lower tier status. Whats transpired is the established well known clubs have 'survived" to an extent however damage has been done. Its fundamental that 'foundation' clubs of the NRL are from the SYDNEY COMPETITION.. This is what the masses related to and therefore identify with. They go ? So do the fans! A market advantage the code has over other aspiring codes will be eliminated. Then the shit will truelly 'hit the fan' so to speak. It has to an extent already.

 

[Perth Red]

I think we agree more than we realise here.

Let's rewind to the 80's and erase the Broncos from history. Instead, take the strongest and most Iconic QRL clubs (I would pick Ipswich, Redcliffe, Easts and Wynnum Manly but I'm open to opinions on this) take the strongest and most iconic NSWRL clubs (yes, of course there will be more of them because this is the financial base of the game) and make a new national comp. I don't mind which clubs from either that are picked but I'm thinking you take four brisbane clubs, six or seven Sydney clubs and add Newcastle, Canberra and Gold Coast-Tweed Seagulls. That would be the basis of our new 1988 NRL competition.

- It would preserve the history and tradition of the most iconic clubs in each state
- It would preserve the financial base of the game - Sydney (and it's biggest clubs)
- It would preserve the best of the BRL and ensure that a city isn't devided over a polariing club like the Broncos who had a big hand in SL and are actively blocking a second club in the city

I understand that the second teir isn't as popular but the current day QRL has shown that if done right it can be televised and still be quite popular. For the sake of these clubs, history and fans you could either run separate NSW / QLD Cups or combine them into a national second teir which would hold a fair bit of prestige if you look at the clubs involved (again, these are picked as examples only):

Balmain
North Sydney
Newtown
Western Sydney Magpies
Illawarra Steelers
Penrith Panthers
Cronulla Sharks
Souths Logan Magpies
North Brisbane Devils
Burleigh Bears
Central QLD

Potential expansion bids could have joined the second teir such as Melbourne Storm, Perth Reds, Adelaide Rams and could have been promoted when the time came. Also, existing Sydney & Brisbane clubs could push for expansion if any of the Syd / Bris clubs in the top teir fell on hard times and needed to regroup in NRL 2.

I know we are talking about hypothetical situations but I think if handled correctly in the 80's this could work and we would still have the likes of Balmain, Wests and Illawarra as stand alone clubs and each club could find the level that is right for them.

Good post and I think any intelligent person would see this would have led to far superior outcomes for the game nationally, but Stallion wont get it lol.

 

[Perth Red]

On the second tier comp, I think its primary failing as a stand alone valuable competition with prestige and interest is that it is fundamentally a reserve grade for NRL clubs, at least in NSW. I can see why 5000 Bears fans don't go to NS Oval anymore as who wants to watch South Sydney players stacking the team? It snot a legit comp as teams will likely win or lose depending on NRL link ups and how many NRL players are available.

 

[Stallion]

Good post and I think any intelligent person would see this would have led to far superior outcomes for the game nationally, but Stallion wont get it lol.

? Hypothetical thinking doesn't equate to reality PR! ? My word you are consistently dumb! Like I've noted I've been warned but you keep coming up with useless crap!

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Good post and I think any intelligent person would see this would have led to far superior outcomes for the game nationally, but Stallion wont get it lol.

Yes, six or seven is a good number in Sydney and would preserve the clubs that are truly cared about anyway. Brisbane would not be underrepresented (and therefore dominate in terms of corporate dollars creating resentment in NSW) and it would mean we have space available for expansion. It would have been nice. I think it is underestimated how strong some of the QRL brands are and how valuable they could be to the NRL if they were given the chance - much more valuable than the Broncos are delivering to Brisbane and with the benefit of much more than 12 games a year at Suncorp. I would even go as far as saying that the Lions and Reds would be irrelevant and insignificant.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

I see the hypothetical scenario however its not reality. I would suggest that the fans of Balmain, wests etc would not welcome lower tier status. Whats transpired is the established well known clubs have 'survived" to an extent however damage has been done. Its fundamental that 'foundation' clubs of the NRL are from the SYDNEY COMPETITION.. This is what the masses related to and therefore identify with. They go ? So do the fans! A market advantage the code has over other aspiring codes will be eliminated. Then the shit will truelly 'hit the fan' so to speak. It has to an extent already.

I am not going to be arrogant enough to pretend to know what clubs would have been best to take part in this comp but let's face it, Balmain, Wests and Illawarra (and to a less extent St George) lost their identity altogether. As it stands at the moment we have six potential superclubs in Sydney (Parra, Dogs, Souths, Dragons, Tigers, Panthers) that are being held back by oversaturation and Brisbane suffering from under saturation.

I agree with you that if you lose the other Sydney clubs from the top grade, you do take a hit, yes. But we actually don't know how much it could free up room for the potential superclubs to actually become superclubs, how much Brisbane will take off and add further value to the TV deal, how much Perth could grow into another Melbourne Storm and how well the NRL could actually promote a second teir with iconic brands in it if they tried - it is better than the situation we have now.

There is no reason why a second teir couldn't market itself (even now, forget the 80's) to fans North Sydney (not souths reserves) v Manly at North Sydney oval, PNG Hunters v Fiji in Port Moresby, Redcliffe v any of the iconic Sydney clubs at Dolphin Oval - these are great stories and would draw the crowds plus it is the right setting to use the traditional suburban grounds whilst the NRL clubs get on with playing at the big new stadia that the NSW govt are building.

I really think you could make a positive for the game out of this and it is a solution that does not axe clubs - they get to survive and connect with their communities without mergers or relocations and are still televised.

 

[Stallion]

I am not going to be arrogant enough to pretend to know what clubs would have been best to take part in this comp but let's face it, Balmain, Wests and Illawarra (and to a less extent St George) lost their identity altogether. As it stands at the moment we have six potential superclubs in Sydney (Parra, Dogs, Souths, Dragons, Tigers, Panthers) that are being held back by oversaturation and Brisbane suffering from under saturation.

I agree with you that if you lose the other Sydney clubs from the top grade, you do take a hit, yes. But we actually don't know how much it could free up room for the potential superclubs to actually become superclubs, how much Brisbane will take off and add further value to the TV deal, how much Perth could grow into another Melbourne Storm and how well the NRL could actually promote a second teir with iconic brands in it if they tried - it is better than the situation we have now.

There is no reason why a second teir couldn't market itself (even now, forget the 80's) to fans North Sydney (not souths reserves) v Manly at North Sydney oval, PNG Hunters v Fiji in Port Moresby, Redcliffe v any of the iconic Sydney clubs at Dolphin Oval - these are great stories and would draw the crowds plus it is the right setting to use the traditional suburban grounds whilst the NRL clubs get on with playing at the big new stadia that the NSW govt are building.

I really think you could make a positive for the game out of this and it is a solution that does not axe clubs - they get to survive and connect with their communities without mergers or relocations and are still televised.

We fundamentally differ on the"room" thing? I am of the opinion that expansion should and can occur without carving up Sydney clubs. And so does another code (AFL)with similar, in fact more clubs in a city of one million less people. The AFL are not looking to implode their well recognised and established clubs . These clubs are a market advantage. You lose them you lose support for the code and also general public confidence . This is reality not supposition

 

[Perth Red]

Yes, six or seven is a good number in Sydney and would preserve the clubs that are truly cared about anyway. Brisbane would not be underrepresented (and therefore dominate in terms of corporate dollars creating resentment in NSW) and it would mean we have space available for expansion. It would have been nice. I think it is underestimated how strong some of the QRL brands are and how valuable they could be to the NRL if they were given the chance - much more valuable than the Broncos are delivering to Brisbane and with the benefit of much more than 12 games a year at Suncorp. I would even go as far as saying that the Lions and Reds would be irrelevant and insignificant.

Given the % of TV audience in Brisbane is far greater per population than Sydney you also have to think the attraction to broadcasters would have been much greater with a truly national comp made up of a more even split of established Brisbane and Sydney brands with a growing national big city presence over the 90's and 2000's. Sigh what could have been

 

[Perth Red]

? Hypothetical thinking doesn't equate to reality PR! ? My word you are consistently dumb! Like I've noted I've been warned but you keep coming up with useless crap!

haha, its not hypothetical a mate of mate told me so it must be true!

 

[Stallion]

haha, its not hypothetical a mate of mate told me so it must be true!

? The whole scenario being discussed is hypothetical? Are you aware of that? It’s Ok if you like dreams but still not reality. You do make people wonder PR?

 

[taipan]

Given the % of TV audience in Brisbane is far greater per population than Sydney you also have to think the attraction to broadcasters would have been much greater with a truly national comp made up of a more even split of established Brisbane and Sydney brands with a growing national big city presence over the 90's and 2000's. Sigh what could have been

Sydney is the biggest commercial market in the country, and that also means ad revenue.And the ad revenue is tied in with the TV ratings.

 

[jim_57]

I think this thread is getting far more attention than it deserves.

Someone is going to take it very hard when they realise Bears will be continuously overlooked for Expansion because nobody needs an 11th NSW team..

 

[Stallion]

I think this thread is getting far more attention than it deserves.

Someone is going to take it very hard when they realise Bears will be continuously overlooked for Expansion because nobody needs an 11th NSW team..

Someone might qualify your statement that its in fact reclamation of an abandoned area that should not have occured along with a logistically suitable "consolidation like for the code" use and relevance in the Central Coast. Mistakes have been made and are being made . The game/code needs to fix the damage!

 

[jim_57]

Someone miight qualify your statement that its in fact reclamation of an abandoned area that should not have occured along with a logistically suitable "consolidation like for the code" use and relevance in the Central Coast. Mistakes have been made and are being made . The game/code needs to fix the damage!

No thanks. Going around in circles, just like the Greg Florimo chasing the ambulance of any NRL club doing it tough.