Gorden Tallis is so right

[Joker's Wild]

Hear hear, at the moment SOO is between the Queenslanders and the NSWelshmen and for the moment that is the way it should stay, until another state or territory is ready to compete with them.

All this talk of making SOO open to anybody is BS, on paper you can't be a NSWelshmen or Queenslander without being Australian and that is the way it should stay. Allowing a Kiwi to play SOO and for New Zealand would make SOO even more of a farce then it already is, This also applies to the states and territories outside of NSW and Queensland, even a Canberran should not be allowed to play for NSW!

If the Kiwi's, English, French, whoever want to hold their own SOO that is their business, but under no circumstances should we be made destroy ours just because they don't like it!

If you want the international game to be held in higher regard then SOO then that is simple, stop the media giving SOO more coverage than the international game and make them focus on the international game more, over time the interest in SOO would fall and the interest in international games would rise (especially in the states and territories outside of NSW and QLD).

Hell I would much rather watch a game between Jamaica and Canada then a SOO3 dead rubber, and for the most part I would rather watch a game between Australia and New Zealand then a game between NSW and QLD.

Just a crazy idea that could make everybody happy and eventually replace SOO, but how about an (truly) International Origin series, ANZACs vs British Lions? I think that concept has potential.

What paper would that be?

Honestly, I cannot see why playing SOO and for your heritage nation cant be achieved, as long as you meet the eligibility criteria for both. Hell, we are going to see it this upcoming world cup with guys like Civo, Uate and possibly even Hayne all turning out for Fiji.

You know why the media gives SOO so much coverage? Because the Australian public demands it. Do you actually think that SOO is more popular because the media tells us it is? Its so popular because the fans in NSW and QLD, the 2 biggest RL strongholds on the planet, love it to death.

ANZAC combined side? lol not in this lifetime

 

[Tone83]

Anyone suggesting origin should be shackled to boost interest in the international game should be put in a straight jacket and forbidden from ever voicing their ideas ever again on any topic. Thats so idiotic I don't know where to begin.

 

[Springs]

Hear hear, at the moment SOO is between the Queenslanders and the NSWelshmen and for the moment that is the way it should stay, until another state or territory is ready to compete with them.

All this talk of making SOO open to anybody is BS, on paper you can't be a NSWelshmen or Queenslander without being Australian and that is the way it should stay. Allowing a Kiwi to play SOO and for New Zealand would make SOO even more of a farce then it already is, This also applies to the states and territories outside of NSW and Queensland, even a Canberran should not be allowed to play for NSW!

If the Kiwi's, English, French, whoever want to hold their own SOO that is their business, but under no circumstances should we be made destroy ours just because they don't like it!

If you want the international game to be held in higher regard then SOO then that is simple, stop the media giving SOO more coverage than the international game and make them focus on the international game more, over time the interest in SOO would fall and the interest in international games would rise (especially in the states and territories outside of NSW and QLD).

Hell I would much rather watch a game between Jamaica and Canada then a SOO3 dead rubber, and for the most part I would rather watch a game between Australia and New Zealand then a game between NSW and QLD.

Just a crazy idea that could make everybody happy and eventually replace SOO, but how about an (truly) International Origin series, ANZACs vs British Lions? I think that concept has potential.

Uh no, at the moment State of Origin is between NSWelshmen, Queenslanders, a Fijian in Uate and 2 New Zealanders in Tamou and Te'o. No one is saying open it up to everyone. We are saying let these 'NSWelsmen and Queenslanders' in Uate, Tamou and Te'o play Origin and for another country other than Australia. To play Origin you would still have to qualify under the current rules, except for having to switch allegiance to Australia.

And yes, you can't be a NSWelshmen without being an Australian, but you can also be a Fijian. This concept we are talking about is to let Fijian-Australians, Tongan-Australians, Irish-Australians and whatever else be allowed to play Origin and for a separate country, it's not about letting say Sam Burgess play Origin when he has nothing to do with NSW.

 

[Springs]

It is interesting how supporters in other sports would think about their big rivalries against internationals. What passion is generated by a Barcelona v Real Madrid game compared to Spain playing Sweden in a soccer international? Same for MU v Liverpool etc.

Origin simply generates more passion than Australia v NZ because Australia has dominated these games so much that in the past. The real way to get more from these games is make NZ and then England more competitive. The issue for Australia is why should we assist another country beat us?

It doesn't help when Australia refuses to play games and promote the international competition.

 

[Mr Fourex]

The issue for Australia is why should we assist another country beat us?

Yes.......why is the onus always on Australia to train other countries how to play the game?

You kind of see it with the cricket now. Over the last decade or so we've sent coaches over seas.....got Australian players/coaches coaching international teams, and now Australia are in the also ran category.

I don't want Australian RL heading down the same path......

 

[Tone83]

Do you mean by letting players play for their home nation? Seriously?

I don't think we have much to worry about anyway, as an aussie I'd still be pretty confident. If tonga and fiji and samoa etc get all their players they're gonna be much better much more interesting and watchable and more inspiring for their nations, but still no where near australia.

 

[Springs]

Yes.......why is the onus always on Australia to train other countries how to play the game?

You kind of see it with the cricket now. Over the last decade or so we've sent coaches over seas.....got Australian players/coaches coaching international teams, and now Australia are in the also ran category.

I don't want Australian RL heading down the same path......

Australian coaches have already coached New Zealand, England/GB, Samoa, Fiji, Cook Islands etc. Not to mention many Super League clubs.

 

[vinnie delpino]

Yawn...SOO is so overrated! The best player in the competition and most marketable asset SBW cant even play in the so called pinnacle of the sport! No wonder he'll be back at the Chiefs next season. People outside of Australia/NZ know what an All Black is but a Queens...what?

 

[docbrown]

Uh no, at the moment State of Origin is between NSWelshmen, Queenslanders, a Fijian in Uate and 2 New Zealanders in Tamou and Te'o. No one is saying open it up to everyone. We are saying let these 'NSWelsmen and Queenslanders' in Uate, Tamou and Te'o play Origin and for another country other than Australia. To play Origin you would still have to qualify under the current rules, except for having to switch allegiance to Australia.

And yes, you can't be a NSWelshmen without being an Australian, but you can also be a Fijian. This concept we are talking about is to let Fijian-Australians, Tongan-Australians, Irish-Australians and whatever else be allowed to play Origin and for a separate country, it's not about letting say Sam Burgess play Origin when he has nothing to do with NSW.

Exactly.

People who play for both are still going to have to prove their eligibility.

 

[Bronco Rob]

Exactly.

People who play for both are still going to have to prove their eligibility.

Although I am not thrilled about having dual Origin and non-Australian eligibility I am starting to warm to the idea for the sake of strengthening the International game and stop the tug-of-war farce between state and country.

I think the ideal eligibility criteria is come here after 13 and you are not eligible for Origin(now in place), here before 13 and you are then eligible for state and nation of choice. This will stop Origin becoming an All-star game and still hold its integrity intact and to be honest I don't think you will see the magnitude of players who don't choose Australia as we think. It will however allow players who are on the brink of Origin be able to comfortably choose a nation without the disappointment of giving up a chance to play Origin ie. the situation with Maguire and Vidot a few years ago.

I really think though that in years to come with the amount of Kiwi juniors coming through and the new SOO eligibility rules we will see the ANZAC tests being just as big as SOO's. Why do we need to lessen the SOO series to make the International game stronger, why is not possible to have both as big as each other? In years to come a strong Origin and even stronger International game would knock AFL and RU out of the water here is Aust.

 

[Tone83]

I'm not thrilled about "13" being the age, can live with it but think its a bit odd since a 14 year old samoan kid(and it is a kid) could move here, play footy for the lithgow shamrocks and be developed into an nrl player and to me that means his state of origin is nsw. A cut off age of 18 would make sense.

The international game would definitely benefit, come world cup you'd be counting the origin stars in each country excited to see how they shoulder the hopes of their nation. Its like world cup soccer where you're relying on your stars who play in europe. World cup soccer would be boring as shit if uruguay just had guys that lived locally and england, spain and italy hoarded all the stars.

 

[Springs]

It's not going to lessen the Origin series. It will be the same as it is now except players like Uate, Te'o etc. will be allowed to choose to play for their country of birth/heritage instead of being locked in to Australia. The only team it will weaken is the Australian test side.

And yes, players like McGuire and Vidot could play for Samoa without being ruled out of Origin contention for the next few years. And we can finally stop the bullshit Meninga/Stuart poaching of players from other countries just to play Origin.

 

[Tone83]

Glad to see so many people can see the obvious, thought I was going insane when no one mentioned this obvious solution when talk of eligibility drama would arise on footy shows and the like. Just need to deliver this message into the arl's fat thick head somehow.

I honestly dont even think it would hurt the oz team, we have so much depth you'd just be replacing kiwis and fijians with aussies that are no worse.

 

[Tone83]

Btw I think origin would remain bigger, but thats fine. The gap would narrow significantly but origin is still gonna be the big clash of the titans. I think its interesting that players would make it on the kangaroos but be not quite good enough to get an origin jumper. This idea boosts both the international game and origin. Origin's larger than life status actually grows, while national teams also improve.

 

[The Great Dane]

What paper would that be?

Technically you can't be a NSWelshmen or Queenslander without being a citizen of Australia, so the Australian citizenship document/certificate.

As soon as we start to get into the what people feel like and who they think they represent it starts to get muddied and complicated, keep it black and white and make the rules so that the less people you have who have to choose the better.

Honestly, I cannot see why playing SOO and for your heritage nation cant be achieved, as long as you meet the eligibility criteria for both. Hell, we are going to see it this upcoming world cup with guys like Civo, Uate and possibly even Hayne all turning out for Fiji.

Yes your right we are going to see it in the WC and it is a joke and needs to stop, once you choose that is it you have to stay with them for life.

Make sure that their are incentives for going with your country of birth and make the players make the decision as young as possible, under 20s if possible and make sure that it is an on the spot decision without thinking about it to much, then you will see where their loyalties really lie. I know that if this method was used on blokes like Papalii then he would be pulling on a black and white jersey on Friday and not thinking about a spot on the Queensland SOO team.

You know why the media gives SOO so much coverage? Because the Australian public demands it. Do you actually think that SOO is more popular because the media tells us it is? Its so popular because the fans in NSW and QLD, the 2 biggest RL strongholds on the planet, love it to death.

I understand supple and demand, but at the same time their comes a time when it becomes detrimental, I mean for f##k sake last year the SOO series had just ended and the papers were already talking about this years series, during the off season their was constantly talk about what SOO would be like this year, as Tallis says all this week in the papers they have been talking about the NSW halves paring when on Friday night there is a ANZAC test for god sake.

I understand what you are saying, but in this case the media is a large part of the problem. With their constant coverage of SOO (even when it is not SOO season) they are unintentionally marginalizing all other RL products that may be of interest to their consumers.

The only way to change this is to reduce the coverage of SOO and increase the coverage of other RL products, at frist there would be a reduction in sales but overtime (5-10 years in NSW and QLD, less in the other states and territories) people would start to take more interest in the other RL products including international RL.

As I alluded to in my last post, as a person with no SOO allegiances (being from the ACT) I would much rather read about a game between some random countries like Lebanon and Wales then read about a game between NSW and QLD, I would even prefer to read about the NRL, but sometimes during the year I don't have a choice it is SOO or nothing and I would rather read and watch the SOO then not watch any RL at all.

ANZAC combined side? lol not in this lifetime

As I said it was just a crazy idea, I just wanted to see peoples reactions to it.

 

[RHCP]

Technically you can't be a NSWelshmen or Queenslander without being a citizen of Australia, so the Australian citizenship document/certificate.

So Akuila Uate is no longer a Fijian because he's an Australian citizen? That's new to me, he sure looks like one.

 

[Joker's Wild]

Technically you can't be a NSWelshmen or Queenslander without being a citizen of Australia, so the Australian citizenship document/certificate.

As soon as we start to get into the what people feel like and who they think they represent it starts to get muddied and complicated, keep it black and white and make the rules so that the less people you have who have to choose the better.

No, that tells a person they are a citizen of the Commonwealth of Australia. They give those out to 100s if not 1000s of immigrants every year but that does not mean their heritage changes because of it. An Afghani who becomes an Australian citizen is still Afghani

Technically, being a NSWelshman or a Qlder has nothing to do with being Australian. Officially, its simply not recognised either way. There is no official document that states that I am a NSWelshman anywhere in existence. The closest you will get is the place of birth on my birth certificate and we all know that has no baring on SOO eligibility.

Yes your right we are going to see it in the WC and it is a joke and needs to stop, once you choose that is it you have to stay with them for life.

Make sure that their are incentives for going with your country of birth and make the players make the decision as young as possible, under 20s if possible and make sure that it is an on the spot decision without thinking about it to much, then you will see where their loyalties really lie. I know that if this method was used on blokes like Papalii then he would be pulling on a black and white jersey on Friday and not thinking about a spot on the Queensland SOO team.

Why does it have to stop? Let blokes like Uate play SOO and for Fiji and you'll see them stick with that country for life. Force them to choose between SOO and their heritage for a minor RL nation and you see the mess we have now.

I understand supple and demand, but at the same time their comes a time when it becomes detrimental, I mean for f##k sake last year the SOO series had just ended and the papers were already talking about this years series, during the off season their was constantly talk about what SOO would be like this year, as Tallis says all this week in the papers they have been talking about the NSW halves paring when on Friday night there is a ANZAC test for god sake.

I understand what you are saying, but in this case the media is a large part of the problem. With their constant coverage of SOO (even when it is not SOO season) they are unintentionally marginalizing all other RL products that may be of interest to their consumers.

The only way to change this is to reduce the coverage of SOO and increase the coverage of other RL products, at frist there would be a reduction in sales but overtime (5-10 years in NSW and QLD, less in the other states and territories) people would start to take more interest in the other RL products including international RL.

As I alluded to in my last post, as a person with no SOO allegiances (being from the ACT) I would much rather read about a game between some random countries like Lebanon and Wales then read about a game between NSW and QLD, I would even prefer to read about the NRL, but sometimes during the year I don't have a choice it is SOO or nothing and I would rather read and watch the SOO then not watch any RL at all.

What bullshit. The media will print what fans want to read about and that is SOO. Its up to the fans to demand more coverage of Int'l RL, not the media to reduce SOO coverage. You have it completely backwards.

You would be in the small minority in the RL states if you dont want much media coverage of SOO.

The answer is not to drag SOO down but rather its up to Int'l league to bring itself up to SOOs level.

 

[typicalfan]

If a player plays origin for the sake of the extra cash/recognition and fame what is stopping them from playing for Australia if the eligibility criteria changes.

 

[roughyedspud]

they are'nt good enough for australia......thats whats stopping them playing international RL

 

[typicalfan]

they are'nt good enough for australia......thats whats stopping them playing international RL

Guys like Tamou, Hayne, T Williams and Uate have played plenty of football for Australia and will continue to do so. Someone like Papalii will no doubt due to his allegiance with QLD will don the Green and Gold at some point in his career.

If playing for Australia (rather than NSW) becomes the ultimate goal for these guys financially then you could see the same thing happening. It happens all the time in soccer.

Problem is ARL are grubs of the highest order and as soon as someone is good enough they want them playing for Australia.

All you have to do is look at the NZ side to see all the Tongan/Samoan possible representatives that play for NZ.