Gorden Tallis is so right

[RedVee]

So Akuila Uate is no longer a Fijian because he's an Australian citizen? That's new to me, he sure looks like one.

Ok, new eligibility rules - it depends on what you look like???? Or, if you have a 'funny' name?


Depressing thread.

 

[The Great Dane]

No, that tells a person they are a citizen of the Commonwealth of Australia. They give those out to 100s if not 1000s of immigrants every year but that does not mean their heritage changes because of it. An Afghani who becomes an Australian citizen is still Afghani

Technically, being a NSWelshman or a Qlder has nothing to do with being Australian. Officially, its simply not recognised either way. There is no official document that states that I am a NSWelshman anywhere in existence. The closest you will get is the place of birth on my birth certificate and we all know that has no baring on SOO eligibility.

This is where it starts to get muddied and that is exactly why it should be where you are born or what citizenship's you hold or have held.

Heritage is where we start to get problems, cut the heritage options and make it the citizenship you hold or where you were born is who you play for. Black and white, few players with a choice and simple. Any other way and their is loophole after loophole and grey area after grey area.

As for SOO, it should be you must hold a Australian citizenship and have lived the majority of your life in either NSW or Queensland. Simple, black and white and easy.

Why does it have to stop? Let blokes like Uate play SOO and for Fiji and you'll see them stick with that country for life. Force them to choose between SOO and their heritage for a minor RL nation and you see the mess we have now.

Even if their was no SOO they would still be those who choose to play for Australia because on average it pays more and on average we play more games a year then their minor nation does, so their will always be those who take a gamble and go for the money.

So from the f##king start it is not a choice between their heritage and SOO, it is a choice between the chance at a large amount of money or a chance at a smaller amount money but also representing your ancestors and heritage.

This is why I suggest that we make the rule which citizenship you own or have owned, and make the players who do have a choice choose at a young age, on the spot and at random. Don't let them talk to their manager, parents or anybody while they make their decision, don't give them any information on how much money they could earn playing for which country, just sit them at a desk in a empty room for 15 or so minutes with a piece of paper that has the names of all the countries they could represent and don't let them out until they have ticked one.

Simple, easy and black and white.

What bullshit. The media will print what fans want to read about and that is SOO. Its up to the fans to demand more coverage of Int'l RL, not the media to reduce SOO coverage. You have it completely backwards.

You would be in the small minority in the RL states if you dont want much media coverage of SOO.

The answer is not to drag SOO down but rather its up to Int'l league to bring itself up to SOOs level.

Firstly pretty much everybody I known who is not from NSW or Queensland and follows RL (myself included) gets very tired of SOO very quickly, normally before the second game, simply because of the ridiculous amount of coverage SOO get's in the media.

This is very detrimental to many aspects of the game but mostly to selling the game as a national game and the international game. At the moment anybody with an interest in RL in WA, VIC, SA, NT, TAS and even the ACT has to be willing to listen to and read all this stuff about about two teams that they have absolutely nothing to do with and in some cases have no interest in. On top of that the people from NZ, Victoria and the ACT have to be willing to cripple their teams on occasion for the cause of one of these state teams that they have absolutely no reason to want to help.

There are a couple of reasons why the AFL got rid of their SOO but the main one was that they were having trouble selling the game to the states and territories that where not yet ready to be part of it. The media (which is simply advertizing for their game) was inadvertently giving off the impression that their game was only for the people from the states represented. This lead them to take the easy road and simply get rid of SOO.

I don't want the ARLC to "take the easy road" and get rid of SOO, I want them to go down one of the harder roads and attempt to marginalize it just a little bit for while, while at the same time promoting the international game more. This does not mean destroying the pedestal that SOO is on and using the rubble to build up the international game, rather it means stop adding all the excess supplies to the SOO pedestal for a while and use those resources to build more onto the international game.

Most people would not even notice the reduction of coverage for SOO and increase of coverage for the international game from year to year, but by the end of this process (which admittedly could take a longtime) both the international game and SOO would be held in high regard. We should be aiming for a time when you can regularly read about what is happening in the game in other countries, much like the soccer section or the RU section where you can read about the local comps and comps over seas. This does not mean that we must stop all coverage of SOO rather that we must reduce it just a little to make more room for coverage of the international game.

 

[deluded pom?]

I can't get my head around the fact that some people think it's wonderful that Civoniceva may play for Fiji even though he's an Australian international and has lived the vast majority of his life in Australia, yet the same people get upset if it's suggested players be allowed to play SoO and for a nation other than Australia. Or is it just because Civoniceva has retired?

 

[deluded pom?]

Yes.......why is the onus always on Australia to train other countries how to play the game?

You kind of see it with the cricket now. Over the last decade or so we've sent coaches over seas.....got Australian players/coaches coaching international teams, and now Australia are in the also ran category.

I don't want Australian RL heading down the same path......

Are you seriously worried about Australia being knocked off their pedestal by a nation such as Tonga, Fiji or Samoa? You'll be long dead and buried before, or if, that ever happens.

 

[Tone83]

Ok, new eligibility rules - it depends on what you look like???? Or, if you have a 'funny' name?


Depressing thread.

Wrap your head around the fact that uate is both fijian and australia, in no way is either comprimised by the other, there are people in the world with dual nationalities, even triple. People mateo is tongan(or samoan?) a kiwi and an aussie. This is simply the reality for some people, most of them not footballers, alot of them fans, who don't want the arl implying they're not valid members of this or that nationality.

 

[deal.with.it]

Here's a solution to the 'problem', without it actually being a solution:

Have pacific island test matches, like the one this saturday, played same time every year. Add Fiji, Cook Islands, PNG, Vanuatu to the mix.

Then, players will have to choose their allegiance before the big bad ricky stuart gets in first, and will void any chance of playing for SoO/Australia.

For example, if antonio winterstein went on from this weekend and was in career best form, QLD couldn't pick him. There's no decision to make. That test match back in April rules him out.

Simply add to this stand alone test weekend next year, and the problem will almost completely go away without the incompetent RLIF having to make a decision.

 

[hutch]

Here's a solution to the 'problem', without it actually being a solution:

Have pacific island test matches, like the one this saturday, played same time every year. Add Fiji, Cook Islands, PNG, Vanuatu to the mix.

Then, players will have to choose their allegiance before the big bad ricky stuart gets in first, and will void any chance of playing for SoO/Australia.

For example, if antonio winterstein went on from this weekend and was in career best form, QLD couldn't pick him. There's no decision to make. That test match back in April rules him out.

Simply add to this stand alone test weekend next year, and the problem will almost completely go away without the incompetent RLIF having to make a decision.

This. It's not hard is it, more test matches, more tournaments for all nations outside the big 3, stricter rules regarding nation swapping and we set up the future for international rugby league. In addition to this, hopefully origin gets moved to stand alone weekends in the next tv deal, it is ridiculous that it is still on a wed night and clubs go without their players and these players have to back up a couple of days later. That opens up more weekends free for rep matches for other countries and gives players a fairer choice on who they wish to represent. Once they make their choice, they are locked in to that country and can add to the national player pool for the future.

 

[hutch]

Wrap your head around the fact that uate is both fijian and australia, in no way is either comprimised by the other, there are people in the world with dual nationalities, even triple. People mateo is tongan(or samoan?) a kiwi and an aussie. This is simply the reality for some people, most of them not footballers, alot of them fans, who don't want the arl implying they're not valid members of this or that nationality.

Nobody disputes that there are people with dual nationality, but this is international sport and it is bigger than any individual. Mateo is Australian, English and Tongan, not sure where you got kiwi from. He has been the Tongan captain since 2006 and should only be eligible for them. He made his choice and should be made to stick to it.

 

[Tone83]

I can live with that, somewhat begrudgingly because in my ideal system the world cup and tests would be separate entities and fijian aussies (for example) could aim up for oz in 4 nations and anzac tests and etc but then represent their people in the world cup. I can understand how this is a bit much for people to take in who still can't get past how a fijian can be an australian.

Much more importantly than this though is that once someone makes their choice to play for samoa or wherever, in no way should this affect their chances at origin which is definitely absolutely 100% a separate entity, not about where you were born but where you paid your dues playing grass roots footy. That's what it's about, and given that it's a disgrace that foreign born origin players have to then turn their back on their people and begrudgingly play for australia for no apparent reason, and to the detriment of both the international game and origin due to the origin-eligible stars who simply can't stomach betraying their home nation.

 

[hutch]

I can live with that, somewhat begrudgingly because in my ideal system the world cup and tests would be separate entities and fijian aussies (for example) could aim up for oz in 4 nations and anzac tests and etc but then represent their people in the world cup. I can understand how this is a bit much for people to take in who still can't get past how a fijian can be an australian.

Much more importantly than this though is that once someone makes their choice to play for samoa or wherever, in no way should this affect their chances at origin which is definitely absolutely 100% a separate entity, not about where you were born but where you paid your dues playing grass roots footy. That's what it's about, and given that it's a disgrace that foreign born origin players have to then turn their back on their people and begrudgingly play for australia for no apparent reason, and to the detriment of both the international game and origin due to the origin-eligible stars who simply can't stomach betraying their home nation.

Who are these players who have begrudgingly played for Australia that you are talking of?

Origin is the arls representitive game. If they want only Australian qualified players to play in their domestic rep series, that's their right. Yes it is a separate entity to international rugby league, but it is up to the arl who plays. What the arl don't or shouldn't have the right to do is poach another nations player with these rules in place. Uate and teo should not be allowed to play origin and the arl should not have allowed the states to pick them.
The arl/nrl should also not be allowed to decide whether another country plays representitive rugby league during origin period. Why is it fair that Australia plays rep games but no other country has that option? NZ have been attempting to get their own domestic rep series off the ground for years only to be shot down by nrl clubs and no support from the nrl. We could be playing nz origin, pacific cups, nz v pacific islands, pacific test series all during a mid season rep break in an ideal scenario.

 

[Tone83]

Who are these players who have begrudgingly played for Australia that you are talking of?

None are going to admit it, they'll jump through whatever hoops they have to to play origin. And I'm sure some are fine with it, but you can't truly believe that if players were able to choose which nation they played for without it affecting origin, that all who have gone with australia would have.
Tamou isn't even an australian citizen yet (or maybe is as of a few days ago?), ofcourse he would have been happy to play for NZ if it wasn't for origin, don't care what he says. Most people will naturally feel in their hearts that they should represent their birth nation and ancestral people, especially on a stage like the world cup. And I'm not doubting in any way their australian-ness or their love for australia, most probably love australia and are proud to represent it but if truly free to do what they felt was right I bet a huge percentage would go with their underdog birth nation, where their roots are.

The arl might have a right, as you say, but there's no denying they're being big babies and hurting the game for no good reason. They should be happy to celebrate the international reach of their product by having their origin stars representing many nations in the world cup. More significantly many players are eligible for many countries while also being perfectly eligible for origin and what it stands for.

The whole thing definitely has a first nation pauline hanson vibe to it, and in 2013 they should have a serious look at that.

 

[Mr Fourex]

Are you seriously worried about Australia being knocked off their pedestal by a nation such as Tonga, Fiji or Samoa? You'll be long dead and buried before, or if, that ever happens.

This is IMO a different matter.

IMO players who play SOO and fail to make the Australian side should be allowed to be available for the minnow league nations like the ones you have named and others......

NZ and GB should be the same. If players failed to make the "big three" league nations (Aus, NZ & GB)) rep sides than they should be allowed to play for these developing RL sides.

What I don't want is NZ and GB players being further trained by Australia by allowing them to take part in our interstate rivalries.

Enough is enough.....

 

[typicalfan]

I agree with hutch the first step should be more games

 

[docbrown]

IMO players who play SOO and fail to make the Australian side should be allowed to be available for the minnow league nations like the ones you have named and others......

I disagree. The Australian side doesn't need to be strengthened. What you're suggesting makes minnow countries a mere afterthought.

We want players to pick nations outside the Big 3 as their first choice.

What I don't want is NZ and GB players being further trained by Australia by allowing them to take part in our interstate rivalries.

What you're suggesting given your first statement is-
* A Fijian could play for QLD & Fiji
* But a NZer who plays for QLD can't play for NZ - even if they were born in NZ to NZ parents but then spent the next 20 years of their life being raised, educated and playing football in QLD

That's not going to work. If he's got a strong connection to NZ & QLD then he's just as entitled to play for both like the Fijian.

I can't believe you're worried about NZ & GB players benefiting from the better systems that are in place in Australia. I hate to break it to you but they already get that from playing in the NRL... you'd have to ban from that too and that would be another mistake.

I hope NZ & GB players who have a legitimate connection to both get to play Origin and that improves the scorelines and results of matches. That would be beneficial for the game.

 

[docbrown]

Some thoughts on international eligibility -

http://www.theroar.com.au/2013/04/20/my-letter-to-the-nrl-ceo-part-6-rep-eligibility/

 

[deluded pom?]

I think Mr Fourex comes across as the typical Aussie Ocker who is terrified of losing top spot to anyone and will do all they can to protect it. No disrespect to the genuine Aussies (vast majority) on the boards.

 

[Someone]

I think Mr Fourex comes across as the typical Aussie Ocker who is terrified of losing top spot to anyone and will do all they can to protect it. No disrespect to the genuine Aussies (vast majority) on the boards.

hes a f**king clown like most people on here.

 

[Joker's Wild]

This is IMO a different matter.

IMO players who play SOO and fail to make the Australian side should be allowed to be available for the minnow league nations like the ones you have named and others......

NZ and GB should be the same. If players failed to make the "big three" league nations (Aus, NZ & GB)) rep sides than they should be allowed to play for these developing RL sides.

What I don't want is NZ and GB players being further trained by Australia by allowing them to take part in our interstate rivalries.

Enough is enough.....

What? They already play in the NRL. Do you actually think that playing SOO will do all that much for player development?

Turn it up mate. You're being rediculous

 

[The Great Dane]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Mr Fourex is trying to say that he doesn't want to see England and NZ exploit the systems that Australia have in place, which would include certain pathways created by SOO.

Though I think I can sort of see where you are coming from Mr Fourex I completely disagree with it. Let them use our systems if it means that the international game is improved and made stronger, it's not like we are struggling in the international game or that we desperately need those resources, so why not share them around.

But at the same time I don't see the need to destroy the whole concept that SOO is built on because of some misguided whim that it will some how stop some Kiwis and Pacific Islanders from defecting to Australia, then again when you get down to the nuts and bolts of it the two issues are almost completely separate and have little to no affect on one another.

 

[Mr Fourex]

What? They already play in the NRL. Do you actually think that playing SOO will do all that much for player development?

Turn it up mate. You're being rediculous

and you don't ??

So playing amongst the best of the best ......within the confines of representative coaches...managers....management systems (all of which at least in part carry on through to the National side) Being in camp with Ex- super stars of the game ......current super stars of the game.....etc etc etc

....none of this is going to help with a young players development in your opinion ??

Now look who's being ridiculous.......!!!

Why do you think both states have emerging origin squads ??? Yes, that's right, to help develop young potential talent

..young potential talent that then goes and play for New Zealand or GB ??

F*ck that !!

If a player chooses alliance with these countries let those countries come up with the elite talent squads and camps to help them develop.....why should we?