Grammar fun

[Azkatro]

This may not be the ideal place for this but I think you guys might be able to give me some good feedback on this one. Basically I just got asked a question at work relating to the word "data". If you use a sentence beginning with "The data...", should the next word be "have" or "has"? The first thing I thought was well, it's obvious - the correct word is "has".

But then, considering the singular for "data" is "datum", it is fair to say the word "data" is plural. So then, why isn't the correct word "have"?

As a means of comparison, you would say "The person has", or "The people have". Yet with data (or datum), you would say "The datum has" or "The data has".

Is this an example of an exception in the english language? Or am I misinterpreting the word "data" as a plural?

Normally I would just Google for it but I thought well, it'd be nice to open up a discussion of sorts on this and on grammar in general with my F7 compatriots. I know there have been other situations I've come across before that I normally just try resolving with MS Word's green squiggly underlines.

 

[bgdc]

Grammar in a writing Forum .... heaven forbid - for what's it's worth, here is an opinion.

Data (singular: datum) refers to a collection of natural phenomena descriptors including the results of experience, observation or experiment.

So the inference is in your case that it is being used as a collective noun.

 

[madunit]

my grammar makes nice cookies

 

[byrne_rovelli_fan82]

Ok that whole thing has just confused me now. LOL.

Why don't just put 'is'?

 

[Azkatro]

Ok that whole thing has just confused me now. LOL.

Why don't just put 'is'?

Mainly because in this case it was a past tense thing. For example the full sentence might have been "The data has been repaired".

If I used "is", then why wouldn't I use "are"? "The person is", "The people are", "The datum is", "The data are"... :lol:

 

[Dean Moriarty]

Is this an example of an exception in the english language? Or am I misinterpreting the word "data" as a plural?

The word "data" has two related meanings. The first, and original, is as the plural of datum, meaning a piece of information. In that case you would use the plural verb - "these data are...".

The other meaning is the one it has evolved from that, which is as a synonym of "information". It's basically a collective noun as someone said further up, and you would use the singular verb - "this data is".

The confusion is probably because they are so close that it feels as though it's a mistake, even though it's not.

 

[Titanic]

The confusion is probably because they are so close that it feels as though it's a mistake, even though it's not.

Or that the writer is more akin to conjugating scrum plays than verbs

 

[Jesbass]

The word data is generally used as a collective noun. "The data on the computer is..." etc. In it's purest form, as the plural of datum, it isn't so common any more. (In my limited experience.)

So, as with all writing, it depends on the context.

You could say "these data are" to reflect the plural of datum, or "this data is" as the collective noun.

 

[Titanic]

Excellent thread Az - latin derivations in contemporary use often ignore grammar rules e.g. The guy walks into the bar and asks, "I'll have a martinus, please." To which the barman replies, "Don't you mean martini?" And is brashly told, "If I want two then I'll ask for them."

 

[Mr. Fahrenheit]

youre absolutely right, it probably is 'have', but common use has morphed it somewhat.

 

[Pistol]

Data was also a character in Star Trek: The Next Generation, played by Brent Spiner

 

[rayroxon]

The only time I've ever used data is in the following instance:

I wouldn't data but I would roota.

I'll go back and enjoy the bye round...

 

[Mr. Fahrenheit]

Data was also a character in Star Trek: The Next Generation, played by Brent Spiner

he was the machine yeah?

 

[Pistol]

he was the machine yeah?

that is correct. he was the android

 

[bgdc]

Oh Ray, I'm sure that works well for you. Could I suggest the "particularly nasty weather - tickle your arse with a feather" line for variety?

 

[rayroxon]

that is correct. he was the android

He was always paranoid.

 

[rayroxon]

Oh Ray, I'm sure that works well for you. Could I suggest the "particularly nasty weather - tickle your arse with a feather" line for variety?

Thanks bgdc! I may just put that one in my cap and go all macaroni on it next time around.

 

[Skinner]

Excellent thread Az - latin derivations in contemporary use often ignore grammar rules e.g. The guy walks into the bar and asks, "I'll have a martinus, please." To which the barman replies, "Don't you mean martini?" And is brashly told, "If I want two then I'll ask for them."

Best analogy yet Titanic.....an esoteric topic, but good fun.

 

[Steel Dragon]

Data was also a character in Star Trek: The Next Generation, played by Brent Spiner

i thought he was the indiana jones kid in the goonies

 

[Azkatro]

Excellent thread Az - latin derivations in contemporary use often ignore grammar rules e.g. The guy walks into the bar and asks, "I'll have a martinus, please." To which the barman replies, "Don't you mean martini?" And is brashly told, "If I want two then I'll ask for them."

I never realised martini was a plural. James Bond would have been just that little bit cooler if he asked for a dry martinus :lol: