Greenberg wants 2nd Melb team

[The Great Dane]

The "real world " you purport advocate involves unnecessary dilution of the code in its original heartland areas.

Wait, how is anything that we do here in Australia going to seriously affect support for the code in Yorkshire and Lancashire?

So progress will not occur as confidence in the code will decline. Just like it did when they carved up the Sydney clubs from the suprr league fiasco.

You do realise that more clubs from outside of Sydney got "carved up" then ones from Sydney during the SL war right, or are you revising that history too now?

Or is it that they randomly don't count like Newtown and the other clubs from Sydney that got in chop over the years pre-1990s...

 

[Perth Red]

Stallion if Sydney is soooo important and the game cant survive without its oversaturation can you explain why we keep seeing sub 15k crowds for Sydney team games? The predictions for this weekend are pretty sad EXCEPT for the Sydney clubs! 39k turning up to the NRL in Perth last week, Brisbane selling out, 20k predicted in Melbourne. Sydney top crowd last week was? You can ignore over saturation as much as you like but the evidence is there for all to see.

 

[Stallion]

Wrong again bub..

In 15-16 and 16-17 12 of the 20 EPL clubs made a profit, and with a few notable exceptions of the ones who didn't make a profit it was normally because of an investment into something that they are slowly making the difference back from over the next decade or so, or because the club was/is living outside their means to stay competitive and with some relatively minor belt tightening they could be profitable too.

The EPLs' notable exceptions are the NRLs' rule...



Pfft, don't patronise me. You know damn well that I don't think that there is a similar population density in Australia as there is in Europe, and that I never even slightly suggested that I did.

Why it's even an issue I don't know...



You don't even seem to understand what the saying the tyranny of distance means, largely speaking the tyranny of distance isn't an issue anymore as it refers to Australia and NZ's (and their cities) isolation from the rest of the British empire (and the rest of the world really) as a historical problem cause it made communication between the colonies and London very slow and at times quite unreliable and it meant that if anything went wrong Australia and NZ were effectively by themselves and help was a very long way away.

In modern times with fast relatively cheap global travel, and the internet with almost instant communication worldwide I don't see how the tyranny of distance is an issue at all unless you are hyper focused on getting massive crowds, but it's not like the most densely populated RL market in the country is drawing massive crowds regularly as it stands is it...



I've never suggested a P&R system and nor would I (well at least not in the foreseeable future), and I made that abundantly clear in the post we are referring too... I told you either didn't read or didn't understand what Id written before...

Besides with my plan (though calling it mine or a plan is probably pushing it) you'd almost certainly see a massive increase in the numbers of clubs from NSW and QLD (particularly from Sydney and Brisbane) the most densely populated RL areas in the country, you're problem is that it wouldn't be at the expense of other regions and those clubs from Sydney in particular wouldn't be sanctified as divine entities that cannot be touched and must be given every concession at the expense of others...



Yeah cause turning your most successful product and premier national competition with international appeal into the RL equivalent of the Shute f##king Shield is a greeeaaat idea... Very "savvy"...

Why isn't the NSW cup a huge success? I mean it's basically everything that you personally want for the NRL, so why isn't it a much bigger competition then it is if that is the formula for success, and why don't you f##k off and go watch your never ending Sydney circle jerk and leave the rest of us alone?

Amazingly dumb response. You actually think that the significant distances between population centers therefore NRL clubs is not problematic!? What if the Cowboys fall into a bad period? What happens to the code in Nth Qld!? The same with the other isolated cities! Your logic is inviting a disaster for the code. But I can see the disresepect for the longstanding and very popular (Australia wide) Sydney based clubs has little value for people like yourself! So dumb! Many sports clubs do run at a loss and you still havent properly acknowledged the tyrrany of distance problems that your blind logic cannot see.

 

[Stallion]

Wait, how is anything that we do here in Australia going to seriously affect support for the code in Yorkshire and Lancashire?



You do realise that more clubs from outside of Sydney got "carved up" then ones from Sydney during the SL war right, or are you revising that history too now?

Or is it that they randomly don't count like Newtown and the other clubs from Sydney that got in chop over the years pre-1990s...

What a load of rubbish. Clubs of cultural and historical significance were carved up. Clubs that existed for one to two seasons cannot be regarded as significant losses. For you maybe but not the savvy public that had their memories and affiliations dismembered by mergers and a ridiculous agreement that imposed a massive reduction in the clubs of the time. The external one or two year old clubs were easy porns. The real damage was in Sydney!

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Participation is not up! Hiw bad are you . Its way down! Keep up the bullshit and floss over the detail. The game is nowhere near as relevant as it was prior to the super league farce! You are a garbage informant glossing over genuine issues gor this very fragile code.

The numbers are up once Touch Football numbers are included which is one of the many reasons why the NRL partnered with Touch Football, the other major one is for Government funding which also relates back to participation numbers.

Numbers for RL are down once you take the touch numbers out but at the end of the day there is not many collision sports where the numbers are up these days.

 

[Stallion]

The numbers are up once Touch Football numbers are included which is one of the many reasons why the NRL partnered with Touch Football, the other major one is for Government funding which also relates back to participation numbers.

Numbers for RL are down once you take the touch numbers out but at the end of the day there is not many collision sports where the numbers are up these days.

Lol. What a Rort! You honestly think touch football numbers are a valid participation number. Until they revitalize essential and significant rules like the play the ball its an absolute sham of what was originally "tippy league"! My word we have some very lazy and dodgy statistics seekers if you seriously are counting that as legitimate. That is not a valid participation figure. It could be if the powers that be got essential rugby league type rules in its play again. But not till then. Its just dump and run nowadays with a disregard for many fundamental rugby league rules that could be still enjoyed as in past decades.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Lol. What a Rort! You honestly think touch football numbers are a valid participation number. Until they revitalize essential and significant rules like the play the ball its an absolute sham of what was originally "tippy league"! My word we have some very lazy and dodgy statistics seekers if you seriously are counting that as legitimate. That is not a valid participation figure. It could be if the powers that be got essential rugby league type rules in its play again. But not till then. Its just dump and run nowadays with a disregard for many fundamental rugby league that could be still enjoyed as in past decades.

No, touch football is not tackle rugby league, of course not. But it does fall under the NRL banner and the NRL have used the participation numbers as part of the 'sport' to get Government funding. I think it is a good move.

Although you and I agree on a couple of points: I think it was you that said they were better off going with Oztag - or Tag RL or something like that as it is much closer to actual RL. And we also agree that playing numbers of tackle rugby league has declined.

 

[Stallion]

No, touch football is not tackle rugby league, of course not. But it does fall under the NRL banner and the NRL have used the participation numbers as part of the 'sport' to get Government funding. I think it is a good move.

Although you and I agree on a couple of points: I think it was you that said they were better off going with Oztag - or Tag RL or something like that as it is much closer to actual RL. And we also agree that playing numbers of tackle rugby league has declined.

So placing a truelly false impression about genuine rugby league participation is not a wise tact. Hope we agree on this. Leaguetag is genuinely part of the rugby league landscape. Touch football has been bastardised to an extent that it is not a valid version of rugby league. It can revert back to more like rugby league but till it revisits crucial missing ruck rules like playing the ball with the foot it has got some significant making up to do!

 

[Stallion]

Hey you've convinced me. I have woken up to the realisation that with only nine clubs a city can not possibly fend off attacks from other sports. I'm on the bring back the NS Bears, bring back the jets, lets have a team in Gosford and Illawarra bandwagon. There is no way the game can possibly prosper without at least 13 clubs in NSW. Start a petition Stallion, I'm right in there with you mate!

Still backtracking PR. How insincere of you! ? A while ago you agreed that the damage was being done in Sydney and now you sheepishly hide behind some dude whom has no idea of historical relevance and mathematics. The time wasting for guys like myself goes on. Im astonished at he trash logic that has been forwarded but then again its a footy website. Just got to grin and bare it!

 

[The Great Dane]

Amazingly dumb response. You actually think that the significant distances between population centers therefore NRL clubs is not problematic!?

If you plan for it properly it's not particularly problematic, and I don't see why you think it's such an issue...

I mean you've never explained why you think it's an issue either, you just throw it out there like it is a massive issue and hope that people accept the buzzwords without thinking about it.
I mean you do realise that you don't actually have to attend a game to watch it anymore, and having large amounts of people to show up to watch it in person isn't the only way to make money out of the games anymore.

It's like you're stuck in the 1950s and 60s for gods sake.

What if the Cowboys fall into a bad period? What happens to the code in Nth Qld!? The same with the other isolated cities!

I don't really know much about the Cowboys situation or whether it's incumbent on them to support and run RL in the local area or the QRL's, so I could be wrong but from what I do know about the QRL and how it operates I'd imagine that not be the case cause it isn't the case in Brisbane. So assuming that I'm correct then the Cowboys themselves would drop into a down period and would probably see a decline in ratings, attendance, income, etc, etc, but I imagine that cause of the way that the QRL operates that the juniors would still get their usual support and funding, and that broadly speaking RL as a whole in North Queensland would be fine, it's just that the Cowboys themselves would go into a bit of a down period.

However if we were talking about somewhere like Canberra or Melbourne that isn't well supported by higher bodies like the NRL/NSWRL/QRL/etc and is expected to run and support the sport in their regions almost exclusively with their own funds, then the results would be disastrous, but that is because of the organisational set up of the NRL and not because of the presence or lack there of, of an NRL club in the region. If the ACT and surrounding regions had there own RL that gets a reasonable grant from the NRL to support the sport in the region (like NSW and QLD do) then it wouldn't be a problem, but for whatever reasons the NSWRL has the power to make sure that will never happen and the NRL probably couldn't afford it either in the current climate cause of all the money they piss up against a wall in other areas.

It should never be reliant on an NRL club to fund and administer RL in their region, it's f##king madness for so many reasons, but in some cases (such as in the ACT) it is the way that it is, and BTW it is that way in no small part due to a handful of clubs in Sydney hording all the resources in NSW...

Your logic is inviting a disaster for the code. But I can see the disresepect for the longstanding and very popular (Australia wide) Sydney based clubs has little value for people like yourself! So dumb! Many sports clubs do run at a loss and you still havent properly acknowledged the tyrrany of distance problems that your blind logic cannot see.

Firstly f##k you and your respect!

You go on and on about respecting Sydney clubs and traditions, etc, etc, yet show not an ounce of respect for clubs and regions outside Sydney and their traditions (you even hypocritically selectively choose which Sydney clubs and traditions deserve respect by your own standards), so why should I show you respect when you don't show me or anybody else any respect at all, so no f##k you and f##k your respect cause if you had your way RL in my local area and all it's history and traditions would be completely destroyed so that you can prop up another club in Sydney that they can't support.

Hell I bet you couldn't even name a RL club from Canberra outside of the Raiders (newsflash even if you did say the Raiders you'd be wrong, they aren't actually from Canberra!!!) without googling it first!

Secondly you should stop using the term the tyranny of distance cause you don't have the slightest clue what it means, and Australian cities haven't had any problems communicating with each other and the rest of the world for roughly one hundred years now...

 

[titoelcolombiano]

If we need 10 clubs for 6 million people in this imaginary Sydney region I cant wait to see the three perth clubs, four more Brisbane clubs and the five more Melbourne clubs join the nrl to ensure we have a reasonable population spread for the game in these under represented cities lol

Yep, make sure you have a club in each suburb otherwise codes that don't have clubs in those same suburbs will take over - lol

 

[Stallion]

If you plan for it properly it's not particularly problematic, and I don't see why you think it's such an issue...

I mean you've never explained why you think it's an issue either, you just throw it out there like it is a massive issue and hope that people accept the buzzwords without thinking about it.
I mean you do realise that you don't actually have to attend a game to watch it anymore, and having large amounts of people to show up to watch it in person isn't the only way to make money out of the games anymore.

It's like you're stuck in the 1950s and 60s for gods sake.



I don't really know much about the Cowboys situation or whether it's incumbent on them to support and run RL in the local area or the QRL's, so I could be wrong but from what I do know about the QRL and how it operates I'd imagine that not be the case cause it isn't the case in Brisbane. So assuming that I'm correct then the Cowboys themselves would drop into a down period and would probably see a decline in ratings, attendance, income, etc, etc, but I imagine that cause of the way that the QRL operates that the juniors would still get their usual support and funding, and that broadly speaking RL as a whole in North Queensland would be fine, it's just that the Cowboys themselves would go into a bit of a down period.

However if we were talking about somewhere like Canberra or Melbourne that isn't well supported by higher bodies like the NRL/NSWRL/QRL/etc and is expected to run and support the sport in their regions almost exclusively with their own funds, then the results would be disastrous, but that is because of the organisational set up of the NRL and not because of the presence or lack there of, of an NRL club in the region. If the ACT and surrounding regions had there own RL that gets a reasonable grant from the NRL to support the sport in the region (like NSW and QLD do) then it wouldn't be a problem, but for whatever reasons the NSWRL has the power to make sure that will never happen and the NRL probably couldn't afford it either in the current climate cause of all the money they piss up against a wall in other areas.

It should never be reliant on an NRL club to fund and administer RL in their region, it's f##king madness for so many reasons, but in some cases (such as in the ACT) it is the way that it is, and BTW it is that way in no small part due to a handful of clubs in Sydney hording all the resources in NSW...



Firstly f##k you and your respect!

You go on and on about respecting Sydney clubs and traditions, etc, etc, yet show not an ounce of respect for clubs and regions outside Sydney and their traditions (you even hypocritically selectively choose which Sydney clubs and traditions deserve respect by your own standards), so why should I show you respect when you don't show me or anybody else any respect at all, so no f##k you and f##k your respect cause if you had your way RL in my local area and all it's history and traditions would be completely destroyed so that you can prop up another club in Sydney that they can't support.

Hell I bet you couldn't even name a RL club from Canberra outside of the Raiders (newsflash even if you did say the Raiders you'd be wrong, they aren't actually from Canberra!!!) without googling it first!

Secondly you should stop using the term the tyranny of distance cause you don't have the slightest clue what it means, and Australian cities haven't had any problems communicating with each other and the rest of the world for roughly one hundred years now...

Firstly f@ck you and your consistent disrespect tobthis great codeand its well known and loved clubs! You are a destructive, ignorant and dumb turd!

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Hey you've convinced me. I have woken up to the realisation that with only nine clubs a city can not possibly fend off attacks from other sports. I'm on the bring back the NS Bears, bring back the jets, lets have a team in Gosford and Illawarra bandwagon. There is no way the game can possibly prosper without at least 13 clubs in NSW. Start a petition Stallion, I'm right in there with you mate!

Mate, don't forget Annandale, Cumberland and Glebe. They are part of the cultural heratige of the game and if you leave them out fans will turn away to non-existant AFL and Union clubs in those suburbs.

 

[Stallion]

Yep, make sure you have a club in each suburb otherwise codes that don't have clubs in those same suburbs will take over - lol

So dumb ! Those clubs you ignorantly dismiss atecthe basis of top flight rugby league and Australia wide notiriety of the code. Without these clubs the credibility and attractiveness of this competition is severely compromised. These clubs have been acvepted into the Ausdie sports psyche courtesy of the sport in tv boom of the 70s, 80 and early 90s. This sort of relevance cannot be replicated by the models you propose.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Wait, how is anything that we do here in Australia going to seriously affect support for the code in Yorkshire and Lancashire?

You do realise that more clubs from outside of Sydney got "carved up" then ones from Sydney during the SL war right, or are you revising that history too now?

Or is it that they randomly don't count like Newtown and the other clubs from Sydney that got in chop over the years pre-1990s...

The cultural significance of clubs outside of Sydney doesn't matter to Stallion. Only the Sydney clubs count. Nothing else in the old BRL, the QRL today, the ACT or NZ mean anything. Famous old clubs like Redcliffe, Ipswich, and Queanbeyan Blues didn't exist before the NSWRL generously allowed the Raiders, Steelers, Broncos, Seagulls and Knights to join.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

So dumb ! Those clubs you ignorantly dismiss atecthe basis of top flight rugby league and Australia wide notiriety of the code. Without these clubs the credibility and attractiveness of this competition is severely compromised. These clubs have been acvepted into the Ausdie sports psyche courtesy of the sport in tv boom of the 70s, 80 and early 90s. This sort of relevance cannot be replicated by the models you propose.

Some of the Sydney clubs, yes, just not all of them. Some Sydney clubs should be powerhouses of Australian Sport right now but they are not because they (amongst other reasons) are stuck in an oversaturated market being held back by some clubs that should be in NSW Cup. These same clubs that should be in NSW Cup are also blocking the growth in areas like Perth.

 

[The Great Dane]

What a load of rubbish. Clubs of cultural and historical significance were carved up. Clubs that existed for one to two seasons cannot be regarded as significant losses. For you maybe but not the savvy public that had their memories and affiliations dismembered by mergers and a ridiculous agreement that imposed a massive reduction in the clubs of the time. The external one or two year old clubs were easy porns. The real damage was in Sydney!

So it's option number two then! Those clubs randomly don't count just because you said so.

Oh and for the record 5 clubs from outside of Sydney were cut or folded during the SL war (technically six if you count the Auckland Warriors folding then selling their brand to a business group for them to use for their new club that they wanted to be known as the NZ Warriors) only 2 Sydney clubs folded or were cut during the same time (Souths and the Bears), and one of them was let back into the comp soon after.

Also for the record, the Rams and Chargers were warped up with money in the bank! But Balmain, Cronulla, etc, can f##k up for another 15+ years and still keep a presence in the NRL...
So tell me again who was hard done by?

The combined amount of support and money lost to the game from losing those 5 clubs is incalculable and the loss of three of them in particular (but personally I'd add the Chargers as well) has done more damage to the game then any other decision in the history of the sport!
If the Crushers, Reds, and Rams brought in even half as much wealth and growth to the sport over the last 20 years as the AFL have seen with their expansion over roughly the same time period then the sport would be hugely more successful then it is at the moment...

 

[Stallion]

The cultural significance of clubs outside of Sydney doesn't matter to Stallion. Only the Sydney clubs count. Nothing else in the old BRL, the QRL today, the ACT or NZ mean anything. Those clubs didn't exist before the NSWRL generously allowed the Raiders, Steelers, Broncos, Seagulls and Knights to join.

Misrepresenting won't get you anywhere! Got no gripes with the expansion clubs provided implosion of well known and relevant Sydney clubs is not the price of what you people think is "exoansion" Genuine expansion can happen without dilution in an area that had 6million people and clubs of universal recognition.

 

[Stallion]

Some of the Sydney clubs, yes, just not all of them. Some Sydney clubs should be powerhouses of Australian Sport right now but they are not because they (amongst other reasons) are stuck in an oversaturated market being held back by some clubs that should be in NSW Cup. These same clubs that should be in NSW Cup are also blocking the growth in areas like Perth.

So wrong!

 

[Stallion]

So it's option number two then! Those clubs randomly don't count just because you said so.

Oh and for the record 5 clubs from outside of Sydney were cut or folded during the SL war (technically six if you count the Auckland Warriors folding then selling their brand to a business group for them to use for their new club that they wanted to be known as the NZ Warriors) only 2 Sydney clubs folded or were cut during the same time (Souths and the Bears), and one of them was let back into the comp soon after.

Also for the record, the Rams and Chargers were warped up with money in the bank! But Balmain, Cronulla, etc, can f##k up for another 15+ years and still keep a presence in the NRL...
So tell me again who was hard done by?

The combined amount of support and money lost to the game from losing those 5 clubs is incalculable and the loss of three of them in particular (but personally I'd add the Chargers as well) has done more damage to the game then any other decision in the history of the sport!
If the Crushers, Reds, and Rams brought in even half as much wealth and growth to the sport over the last 20 years as the AFL have seen with their expansion over roughly the same time period then the sport would be hugely more successful then it is at the moment...

You are the one advocating the carving up of existing top flight rugby league clubs! NOT ME!