Hagan has done it again!

[Karmawave]

I really mean what I wrote on page 1 though.

The criticism on him is totally unwarranted and he is one of our own.

 

[Stranger]

He brought us a comp which is awesome, but that can't be fully credited to Hages and you know that. Top bloke, sh*t coach. Look at the team he started with and the team he ended with.


This is a "errr 40% 40%" all over again.

 

[Karmawave]

Well Brian Smith could well use Nathan Tinkler to come along to buy him a premiership, because he hasn't had much luck so far on his own accord.

 

[Bring it home Knights]

Exactly.

The anti Hagan sentiment around here is ridiculous. You guys get up me for questioning the skills of our halfback Benchwarmer, but the rabid criticism and anti Hagan movement on here makes my criticism look timid. At least mine has some basis behind it, unlike the anti Hagan movement.

Michael Hagan had to endure the loss of internationals such as Ben Kennedy, Timana Tahu and Matt Gidley within a few seasons of each other. Add to that Mark Hughes and Bill Peden - 2 toilers who busted their ass for this club every game, and they were replenished with players who were not up to standard. Who wouldn't struggle as a coach?

In addition the injuries Andrew Johns had over the years, and we all know how teams struggle whenever their main halfback and creative force the entire team is revolved around is unavailable for selection. ( Look no further than Brian Smiths first year 15th for how losing Johns early season was a huge blow. We did make the semis the year before after all... )

We speak of Smith highly and we bag Hagan.

While Brian Smith was leading the 2006 semi finalists Knights to 15th in 2007, Michael Hagan was leading the 2006 Eels who were in 14th place prior to Smith being sacked ( finished 8th after a resurgence under Taylor ) into the 2007 semi finals and within 1 game of the GF.

Michael Hagan is not a poor coach.

In fact, the treatment of Michael Hagan by Knights ' fans ' is appalling. He wasn't some ring in. He played for our club and led the Knights to a premiership - question his ' give it to Joey ' tactics all you want - but a premiership should never be forgotten.

Wouldn't Brian Smith have loved to ' give it to Joey ' when he led us to 15th in 2007 after Hagan led us to the semi finals in 2006 with essentially the same team?

Hagan is totally disrespected and unappreciated by you Knights fans.

He toiled for us on the field as a player, and he had success off the field as a coach - including a premiership.

He might not be a tactical genius, but he is a top grade manager of men. Something Brian Smith could well learn from.

In the 2001 GF, its common knowledge that Smith had the Eels wound up so tight they were blown off the park by a Knights team who were relaxed and refreshed by the way Hagan managed their training and preperation.

Belittle him all you like , but I respect Hagan completely.

Hagan had a 54% winning rate during his time at the Knights and some tough years here at the club. He has a 53% winning rate of all first grade coaching level. Our very own ' genius ' you all laud in Smith has a 52% winning rate during his career, and a winning rate in the low 40's here at the Knights.

There is more to coaching than being a school teacher driven tactician. A great coach knows how to manage men, manage individuals. At that, Hagan was top class.

Andrew Johns holds the guy in high esteem, and if that isn't ringing endorsement alone beyond what you and I think, I don't know what is.

Give the guy a break.

Michael Hagan had to endure the loss of internationals such as Ben Kennedy, Timana Tahu and Matt Gidley within a few seasons of each other. Add to that Mark Hughes and Bill Peden - 2 toilers who busted their ass for this club every game, and they were replenished with players who were not up to standard. Who wouldn't struggle as a coach?

Yep that's right, he let go kennedy and signed reynoldson to replace him, great move! He also persisted with the likes of regan tanner and sean rudder for years. Where r they now BTW?

In addition the injuries Andrew Johns had over the years, and we all know how teams struggle whenever their main halfback and creative force the entire team is revolved around is unavailable for selection. ( Look no further than Brian Smiths first year 15th for how losing Johns early season was a huge blow. We did make the semis the year before after all... )

A team may struggle when their key player is down, but they don't forget how to defend like the knights did without johns. They went out onto the field expecting to lose, its a coaches job to rectify this. We had next to nothing without Johns as Hagan built the team around him and didn't bother coming up with a back up plan. How can we forget rudder at 7 and matt gidley at 6 for a month of football.

In fact, the treatment of Michael Hagan by Knights ' fans ' is appalling. He wasn't some ring in. He played for our club and led the Knights to a premiership - question his ' give it to Joey ' tactics all you want - but a premiership should never be forgotten.

The premiership hasn't been forgotten. Thanks to you Joey and the representative team you had around you.

He might not be a tactical genius, but he is a top grade manager of men. Something Brian Smith could well learn from.

Yeah he's such a top grade manager that many of his players get into comfort zones.

Hagan had a 54% winning rate during his time at the Knights and some tough years here at the club. He has a 53% winning rate of all first grade coaching level. Our very own ' genius ' you all laud in Smith has a 52% winning rate during his career, and a winning rate in the low 40's here at the Knights.

There's a book out on how to lie using statistics. Every politician swears by it.

There is more to coaching than being a school teacher driven tactician. A great coach knows how to manage men, manage individuals. At that, Hagan was top class.

Manage men to fall into comfoort zones. Yes Hagan was top class at doing that. Hell he took that quality from the knights and passed it onto the eels.

Andrew Johns holds the guy in high esteem, and if that isn't ringing endorsement alone beyond what you and I think, I don't know what is.

Yeah I hear Johns and Hagan are good friends... I have heard from another player who reckons hagan was a very ordinary coach.

Michael Hagan is not a poor coach.

I agree, he's a sh!thouse coach!

 

[Pika]

How can you say he is a top Manager of men Karma?

Great Coaches get the best out of players.

He certainly has never done that.

I am not saying Brian Smith is doing a great job in this regard, I just think that Hagan was actually quite poor at managing his troops.

 

[Karmawave]

How can you say he is a top Manager of men Karma?

Great Coaches get the best out of players.

He certainly has never done that.

I believe Michael Hagan helped turn Danny Buderus into a total champion and he played his best football under Hagan.

I also believe Hagan helped Feleti Mateo reach his potential and he has been publically thanked by Mateo as the reason he is playing first grade right now!

People were raving about Timana Tahu's form for the Eels in 2007 under Hagans coaching. He was playing as good there as anytime he was playing at the Knights that is for sure. Some of his late season 07 form was brilliant. Especially his defence which improved a heap.

Lots of players go backwards under certain coaching. It is also should not be the coaches fault if the players aren't willing to put in.

Justin Hodges had to leave Brisbane for various reasons before playing good footy under the Stuart at the Roosters. Then when that didn't work out, he had a change again and has played his best footy back under Bennent at the Broncos.

It certainly didn't make Stuart or Bennent poor coaches because the players head isn't in the right spot.

So far, Daniel Anderson, who is regarded as a top notch coach is having the exact same troubles with some of the personalities at the Eels as Hagan did!

I mean we bag out Todd Lowrie etc, yet here is Daniel Anderson selecting Lowrie as a starting second rower in front of other players at the Eels this year!

I just don't believe he deserves the criticism he receives on here. Simple as that.

Some stats don't lie, and that is a 53% all time winning coaching record in first grade Rugby League, which is a lot better than some of the coaches we consider ' great '...

I respect the guy alot.

 

[Pika]

I also dont think he deserves a lot of the criticism he gets.

If you are going to quote Mateo, you must also quote that Tahu came out with much the same comments regarding Smith.

 

[Karmawave]

Tahu did respect Smith alot.

It was one reason he went there I believe.

I didn't intend to turn my defense of Hagan into a Hagan vs Smith debate, but I felt a few fans in here might have needed their first grade winning % pointed out. ;-)

While we are going tit for tat though, here is another Smith clagger.

John Morris was Brian Smiths love child for years. Smith selected Morris into the Country Origin side out of nowhere when at the Knights because he had a hard on over the bloke for ages. At the Country camp he courted Morris hardcore to join the Eels. He personally got involved with lunches and meetings and everything he could to get Morris to the Eels.

Morris went there and he was on big money at the time. I guess we should ask Eels fans what they thought of the John Morris signing in hindsight.

Better yet, we should ask current Tigers fans how much they like Morris.

Everyone can make mistakes. Even our genius Smith. ;-)

 

[Serc]

I think its pretty obvious that Karma didn't have to experience the latter part of the Hagan years (low blow or not), as he considers the rabble that we were from about 04 onwards without Johns or Buderus to be of a better or same level of 'mediocrity' that we have now!

Edit: On the coaches issue - I think its pretty obvious that some players develop better under different coaches/coaching styles than others...not too dissimilar to teachers and students.

 

[mozza91]

I believe Michael Hagan helped turn Danny Buderus into a total champion and he played his best football under Hagan.

I also believe Hagan helped Feleti Mateo reach his potential and he has been publically thanked by Mateo as the reason he is playing first grade right now!

People were raving about Timana Tahu's form for the Eels in 2007 under Hagans coaching. He was playing as good there as anytime he was playing at the Knights that is for sure. Some of his late season 07 form was brilliant. Especially his defence which improved a heap.

Lots of players go backwards under certain coaching. It is also should not be the coaches fault if the players aren't willing to put in.

I'd give Steve Walters and Warren Ryan as much credit as Hagan for Buderus.
As for Tahu he never reached his potential imo he could have been one of the greats, the bloke was a freak who had a very good career but nothing in comparison for what he could have achieved and maybe Hagan is somewhat responsible for it wasn't the reason Tahu left because Hagan wouldn't give him a spot in the centres

 

[Karmawave]

I think its pretty obvious that Karma didn't have to experience the latter part of the Hagan years (low blow or not), as he considers the rabble that we were from about 04 onwards without Johns or Buderus to be of a better or same level of 'mediocrity' that we have now!

The two years I was overseas for was 2005 and 2006. Mind you I was kept well up to date with every Big League, RLW, and footy liftout from the Tele/Herald. :lol:

Didn't the Knights make the semi finals in 2006?

 

[Serc]

Correct, but I specified our team without one of the greatest hooker/halfback partnerships of all time which made the rest of the team look like gods.

I should also mention Mullo had a good start to his career late 06 when Johns was out so that mucks up the analysis a bit.

 

[Karmawave]

Johns and Buderus were once in a generation talents and so central to the teams success that any coach would have had difficulty succeeding without them in their teams.

Imagine the Tigers without Farah/Marshall, Cowboys without Thurston, until recently, the Titans without Prince. Such key players are a nightmare to be without for any coach.

Hagan wasn't perfect, far from it, but he was a lot better than given credit for just the same, and nowhere near as bad as he is made out to be.

Ironically, I'm in here defending a Knight and trying to find positives in Hagan after copping criticism left right and centre for never being positive, while everyone else attacks the bloke like vultures at a carcass :lol:

 

[Bring it home Knights]

I believe Michael Hagan helped turn Danny Buderus into a total champion and he played his best football under Hagan.

I also believe Hagan helped Feleti Mateo reach his potential and he has been publically thanked by Mateo as the reason he is playing first grade right now!

People were raving about Timana Tahu's form for the Eels in 2007 under Hagans coaching. He was playing as good there as anytime he was playing at the Knights that is for sure. Some of his late season 07 form was brilliant. Especially his defence which improved a heap.

Lots of players go backwards under certain coaching. It is also should not be the coaches fault if the players aren't willing to put in.

Justin Hodges had to leave Brisbane for various reasons before playing good footy under the Stuart at the Roosters. Then when that didn't work out, he had a change again and has played his best footy back under Bennent at the Broncos.

It certainly didn't make Stuart or Bennent poor coaches because the players head isn't in the right spot.

So far, Daniel Anderson, who is regarded as a top notch coach is having the exact same troubles with some of the personalities at the Eels as Hagan did!

I mean we bag out Todd Lowrie etc, yet here is Daniel Anderson selecting Lowrie as a starting second rower in front of other players at the Eels this year!

I just don't believe he deserves the criticism he receives on here. Simple as that.

Some stats don't lie, and that is a 53% all time winning coaching record in first grade Rugby League, which is a lot better than some of the coaches we consider ' great '...

I respect the guy alot.

I believe Michael Hagan helped turn Danny Buderus into a total champion and he played his best football under Hagan.

hmmm. Buderus played under hagan between the ages of 21-28. Then injuries caught up with him. So what u r saying is he played worse under smith when he was playing busted and that he played better under hagan than when he first came into firstgrade. What a pointless comment you've made.......

I also believe Hagan helped Feleti Mateo reach his potential and he has been publically thanked by Mateo as the reason he is playing first grade right now!

Mateo has been quoted saying how much he appreciated hagan putting him into first grade. I have never heard him credit his playing ability or style to Hagan.

People were raving about Timana Tahu's form for the Eels in 2007 under Hagans coaching. He was playing as good there as anytime he was playing at the Knights that is for sure. Some of his late season 07 form was brilliant. Especially his defence which improved a heap.

That statement carries no weight at all.

Lots of players go backwards under certain coaching. It is also should not be the coaches fault if the players aren't willing to put in.

If the players arent willing to put in, it is up to the coach to drop them to the bench or reserve grade. Not persist with them for year after year in the run on side.

So far, Daniel Anderson, who is regarded as a top notch coach is having the exact same troubles with some of the personalities at the Eels as Hagan did!

Yep and Brian smith had the same problems here after taking over from hagan. There is one common denominator in both situations.

You are making this waaaay to easy Karma, lol.

 

[Bring it home Knights]

I'd give Steve Walters and Warren Ryan as much credit as Hagan for Buderus.
As for Tahu he never reached his potential imo he could have been one of the greats, the bloke was a freak who had a very good career but nothing in comparison for what he could have achieved and maybe Hagan is somewhat responsible for it wasn't the reason Tahu left because Hagan wouldn't give him a spot in the centres

Very well put! I couldnt agree more!

 

[Karmawave]

Actually BIHK, I never suggested Buderus played worse under Smith at all. It wasn't about Hagan vs Smith on that front.

No one is forcing Daniel Anderson to pick Todd Lowrie either mate. The Eels always have incredibly strong juniors, there's plenty of talented blokes to pick from.

Poor attitude from Polynesians is not exclusive to the Eels. And its certainly not Hagans fault. Anderson has already had bad relations before with islanders and its why he got the ass from the Warriors first time around.

Some blokes are just boofheads with the wrong attitude who are incredibly hard to be coached by anyone.

Ask Matthew Elliott.

 

[Pika]

Johns and Buderus were once in a generation talents and so central to the teams success that any coach would have had difficulty succeeding without them in their teams.

Imagine the Tigers without Farah/Marshall, Cowboys without Thurston, until recently, the Titans without Prince. Such key players are a nightmare to be without for any coach.

Hagan wasn't perfect, far from it, but he was a lot better than given credit for just the same, and nowhere near as bad as he is made out to be.

Ironically, I'm in here defending a Knight and trying to find positives in Hagan after copping criticism left right and centre for never being positive, while everyone else attacks the bloke like vultures at a carcass :lol:

One of the true strengths of Smith is his ability to contruct a plan and execute it when this is the case.

 

[Karmawave]

One of the true strengths of Smith is his ability to contruct a plan and execute it when this is the case.

Yes it is. Definitely correct. Though we'll ignore 2007's performance.

Bennent is great in that regard too.

We are talking about Hagan here goddamit Pika. :lol:

I just think the bloke needs to be cut some slack is all.

 

[Pika]

Sorry mate.

I am with you on Hagan, I don't think he is anywhere near as bad as what people make out.

I actually think a lot of this is about giving it to the Eels fans when Hagan and Smith traded places, those boys had a lot to say.

They are a little quiet around here at the moment though

 

[Stranger]

So far, Daniel Anderson, who is regarded as a top notch coach is having the exact same troubles with some of the personalities at the Eels as Hagan did!

Yep and Brian smith had the same problems here after taking over from hagan. There is one common denominator in both situations.

You are making this waaaay to easy Karma, lol.

:lol:, Smithy never had that problem at the eels untill they told him he had been given the arse:lol:

Karma mate, i can see your white flag... raise it.