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Hagan has done it again!

aqua_duck

Coach
Messages
18,509
Yes it is. Definitely correct. Though we'll ignore 2007's performance.
2007 was an exception to the rule and look 2007 was a nightmare for us, we used 37 players, thats more than 2 1st grade teams, so pretty much every man and his dog got a run due to our injuries, and if thats not bad enough we had Johns retire after 2 games, also add in the change in culture for the players, the infighting, the media bashing and the fallout from letting so many players go. Seriously in 2007 everything that could've gone wrong pretty much did, yet we still somehow managed to avoid the spoon. A few of my mates keep saying year in year out that we'll get the spoon, my response is if we didn't get it in 2007 than we won't get it this year either
 

keeney

First Grade
Messages
6,640
Johns and Buderus were once in a generation talents and so central to the teams success that any coach would have had difficulty succeeding without them in their teams.

Imagine the Tigers without Farah/Marshall, Cowboys without Thurston, until recently, the Titans without Prince. Such key players are a nightmare to be without for any coach.

Hagan wasn't perfect, far from it, but he was a lot better than given credit for just the same, and nowhere near as bad as he is made out to be.

Ironically, I'm in here defending a Knight and trying to find positives in Hagan after copping criticism left right and centre for never being positive, while everyone else attacks the bloke like vultures at a carcass :lol:

Your negativity stems from simply liking to disagree with popular sentiment. You play the misunderstood and persecuted visionary.

Hagan was every bit as bad as he was made out to be.
 

BG

Juniors
Messages
1,075
People were raving about Timana Tahu's form for the Eels in 2007 under Hagans coaching. He was playing as good there as anytime he was playing at the Knights that is for sure. Some of his late season 07 form was brilliant. Especially his defence which improved a heap.


LOL. If you ever get a chance, ask Tahu his opinion of Smith and Hagan as coaches. It will make some of the views raged against you here seem very mild.

Yes, his defence improved at Parramatta. Funny how even at the end of 2007, it was the previous coach that Tahu was giving the credit to:

Tahu said he was keen to join the ACT Brumbies from Newcastle three years ago until opting to develop his game under Smith at Parramatta instead before making the cross-code switch.

“Playing rugby was something I always wanted to do,” the Melbourne-born 27-year-old said.

“I was talking to the Brumbies but discussions sort of fell through then and I thought that I had a lot of weaknesses that I needed to improve on and Brian Smith was the coach that helped me fix those weaknesses up.

“Now that I feel like I’m a better player and, still at a young age, I think it was the right move to come over this year.

“I needed to improve my consistency and I wanted to play in the centres so I wanted to work on my defensive skills and Brian Smith said he could fix those up for me.

“He just made my decision easier to go to Parramatta and personally now I feel a lot more comfortable coming over to rugby union.”

Smith has been condemned by many Parramatta and Newcastle fans for his controversial player cleanouts at both clubs, but Tahu endorsed him as one of the smartest coaches in the business.

“There’s a lot of people that don’t like him but personally he’s done a lot for me,” Tahu said.

“I’ll always appreciate what he’s done for me and he turned me into a better player

http://www.theroar.com.au/2007/12/23/brian-smith-was-a-great-influence-tahu/
 
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BG

Juniors
Messages
1,075
Oh come on BG, 2 can play this game! ;-)

Karma, you're the one playing games. You brought up Tahu. I never said anything about Feleti. You were giving Hagan a wrap by suggesting he had been able to further improve the game of an established rep player. I simply returned serve with the fact that the player himself credits any improvement to Smith, and that article is nothing compared to what he has said less publicly about the two coaches.

Now with Feleti you're talking about an entirely different scenario. He did not play time under each coach as an established top-liner. Under Smith he was an exceptionally talented young guy with an attitude that made the '08 version of Wicks look like a paragon of discipline. By Feleti's own admission he was 10-15kg overweight and doing zero about it. And I have actually seen him acknowledge that Smith lending him out to London was a shakeup that he needed.
 

Big Tim

First Grade
Messages
6,500
Hagan did a great job for us........ in 2001-2003.

His mistake was not planning for the inevitable. Players will age, the game will change and you need to be prepared for that. The same thing happened when he went to the Eels. He had a stellar first year, but it is his future plans that us fans dislike.

I would have no problem with Hagan coming back in 2 years, however unlikely, when this team is ready for a premiership run, but it would have to be a 1 year contract as I feel he is a 1 and done kinda coach. That makes me wonder why he was so poor in SOO.....
 

Whats Doing

Bench
Messages
2,899
Hagan rode on the back of the work done by Warren Ryan and Brian Smith.

Hagan's teams had all gone down hill after that first year at each club.

How could we also forget the wonderful job he also did with the QLD SOO team with the talent they had.

Nice bloke but can't coach and NRL team.
 

Bring it home Knights

First Grade
Messages
7,575
Karma, you're the one playing games. You brought up Tahu. I never said anything about Feleti. You were giving Hagan a wrap by suggesting he had been able to further improve the game of an established rep player. I simply returned serve with the fact that the player himself credits any improvement to Smith, and that article is nothing compared to what he has said less publicly about the two coaches.

Now with Feleti you're talking about an entirely different scenario. He did not play time under each coach as an established top-liner. Under Smith he was an exceptionally talented young guy with an attitude that made the '08 version of Wicks look like a paragon of discipline. By Feleti's own admission he was 10-15kg overweight and doing zero about it. And I have actually seen him acknowledge that Smith lending him out to London was a shakeup that he needed.

Karma has just been OWNED by BG, lol:cool:
 

Jono078

Referee
Messages
21,177
:lol:, Smithy never had that problem at the eels untill they told him he had been given the arse:lol:

Karma mate, i can see your white flag... raise it.
You missed the point completely in your quote :p

He said Anderson is having the same troubles Smith had after taking over a Hagan team, which so far is true. There's no doubting Hagan has left both his teams in a sh*t state.
 

BG

Juniors
Messages
1,075
Well to be fair BIHK, trying to find positives to defend Michael Hagan is like trying to climb Mt Everest without a sherpa. :lol:

Reinhold Messner, first man to climb Everest solo

messnerporträt.jpg


... and here he is after being asked to defend Michael Hagan

scream white hair.jpg
 

Whats Doing

Bench
Messages
2,899
Well to be fair BIHK, trying to find positives to defend Michael Hagan is like trying to climb Mt Everest without a sherpa. :lol:

Maybe if the knights had the sherpa coaching we would have been climbing up the mountain. With Hages, we were sliding down the mountain flat on our arse! :crazy:
 

Yosh

Coach
Messages
11,714
He is a terrible coach; Hagan (coach because he has his licences not because he acutally does any of it). Jeez he has no idea I think. The club hit the s**thole when he was bought in and only now since BSmith has come in are we seeing some improvements. Obviously its still a little eary to debate whether Hagan was a better coach for the Knights or if BSmith will be, but after BSmith leaves Newie lets hold this debate again.

I am willing to bet you a schooner of any beer of your choice deliereved personally to your door by me, that BSmith will be considered the better of the two.
 
Messages
3,818
Exactly.

The anti Hagan sentiment around here is ridiculous. You guys get up me for questioning the skills of our halfback Benchwarmer, but the rabid criticism and anti Hagan movement on here makes my criticism look timid. At least mine has some basis behind it, unlike the anti Hagan movement.

Michael Hagan had to endure the loss of internationals such as Ben Kennedy, Timana Tahu and Matt Gidley within a few seasons of each other. Add to that Mark Hughes and Bill Peden - 2 toilers who busted their ass for this club every game, and they were replenished with players who were not up to standard. Who wouldn't struggle as a coach?

In addition the injuries Andrew Johns had over the years, and we all know how teams struggle whenever their main halfback and creative force the entire team is revolved around is unavailable for selection. ( Look no further than Brian Smiths first year 15th for how losing Johns early season was a huge blow. We did make the semis the year before after all... )

We speak of Smith highly and we bag Hagan.

While Brian Smith was leading the 2006 semi finalists Knights to 15th in 2007, Michael Hagan was leading the 2006 Eels who were in 14th place prior to Smith being sacked ( finished 8th after a resurgence under Taylor ) into the 2007 semi finals and within 1 game of the GF.

Michael Hagan is not a poor coach.

In fact, the treatment of Michael Hagan by Knights ' fans ' is appalling. He wasn't some ring in. He played for our club and led the Knights to a premiership - question his ' give it to Joey ' tactics all you want - but a premiership should never be forgotten.

Wouldn't Brian Smith have loved to ' give it to Joey ' when he led us to 15th in 2007 after Hagan led us to the semi finals in 2006 with essentially the same team?

Hagan is totally disrespected and unappreciated by you Knights fans.

He toiled for us on the field as a player, and he had success off the field as a coach - including a premiership.

He might not be a tactical genius, but he is a top grade manager of men. Something Brian Smith could well learn from.

In the 2001 GF, its common knowledge that Smith had the Eels wound up so tight they were blown off the park by a Knights team who were relaxed and refreshed by the way Hagan managed their training and preperation.

Belittle him all you like , but I respect Hagan completely.

Hagan had a 54% winning rate during his time at the Knights and some tough years here at the club. He has a 53% winning rate of all first grade coaching level. Our very own ' genius ' you all laud in Smith has a 52% winning rate during his career, and a winning rate in the low 40's here at the Knights.

There is more to coaching than being a school teacher driven tactician. A great coach knows how to manage men, manage individuals. At that, Hagan was top class.

Andrew Johns holds the guy in high esteem, and if that isn't ringing endorsement alone beyond what you and I think, I don't know what is.

Give the guy a break.
Now that is worth every word typed..those are the facts and just the facts..sure we got frustrated with his team selections but there you have it
 

Frederick

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
27,589
Karmawave said:
Hagan is totally disrespected and unappreciated by you Knights fans.
And there it is. The moment in which Karma admits he is not a Knights fan.
 

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