halves for next year?

[Eelementary]

Maybe he's still got a big purple mark on his right ass cheek.
I'm telling you mate, that sh*t must hurt.

I know, mate. But if he wasn't really 100%, he shouldn't really have been playing...I know that's the coach's thing (and if you believe the media, Ando made Tahu play injured), but we can't really afford to carry injured players in a competition as tight as the NRL.

And I'm not having a dig at Burty. Love the fella. I just wish sometimes he'd contest more bombs. But I like the guy. He has got motzy.

 

[Eelementary]

Exactly right Eelementary. The first thing I noticed about Burt was his reluctance to take a bomb. I thought he looked a bit tentative & while I'm not saying he was scared - he looked scared. Not physically but scared to make a mistake which is an attitude you can't have. Then I noticed that every time he took a dummy half run he got dominated & sometimes pushed back 5-10 metres or submitted resulting in a slow play the ball. The Parramatta set of six was on the backfoot straight away. Then after getting frustrated with the guy I looked at the his stats & they are terrible reading compared to other NRL wingers. I compare him to other NRL wingers because that's who he plays against & should be judged against. You can't say only have Grothe doing the hitups & Burt's job is to just stand out on the wing & wait for things to happen for him. It's all shoulders to the wheel.

Boxhead - I did watch the first 13 rounds very intently & Burt never set the house on fire. Read the NRL stats for wingers & see where he sits on metres gained & hitups overall. Abominal.

ParraFan09 - Hayne is a freak but I thought he had a low season except for a purple patch for 6 weeks or so after Origin. I think he tries to do it all because other guys don't take some responsilibiliy letting him to play his natural game.

I understand what you're saying.

Personally, I think this is where the coach should step in. Burty has a few boxes ticked which make him a pretty much automatic selection in many coaches' eyes:

* He's a senior player with a lot of experience

* He's a handy goal-kicker

* He does have a handy footy brain

* He is adored by his teammates; to not select him might cause a few issues.

But most people can see that, while Burty has many positives, his drawback will always be his size. So I would expect a coach worth their salt to come up with a gameplan to counteract this.

We saw parts of it last year - Burt returning the kick, taking the line on, and then passing it to Hayne, who broke up the field and made easy metres. I believe we should be doing this more often - Burty fields the kick, takes on the line and passes to a flying Grothe/Hayne/Tahu (anyone with enough strength to break the line and speed to potentially go all the way). And conversely when Hayne fields the kick, have Burty support him - Hayne, by his very nature, will invariably have 2 or 3 defenders on him every time he returns the ball. It's a perfect time to take the line on and offload to Burty to race through a gap.

In terms of bombs, I would encourage Tahu to drop back, too. Stay close to Burt. If he drops the ball, Tahu can clean up and/or make that desperate tackle while Burt gets ready. If he doesn't contest it, at least Tahu is there, too, to help defend.

I'm no First Grade coach, but I believe a huge part of any successful coach's repertoire is his ability to have a well-balanced squad and to minimise a player's negatives while enhancing his positives with good game plans.

 

[yy_cheng]

Exactly right Eelementary. The first thing I noticed about Burt was his reluctance to take a bomb. I thought he looked a bit tentative & while I'm not saying he was scared - he looked scared. Not physically but scared to make a mistake which is an attitude you can't have. Then I noticed that every time he took a dummy half run he got dominated & sometimes pushed back 5-10 metres or submitted resulting in a slow play the ball. The Parramatta set of six was on the backfoot straight away. Then after getting frustrated with the guy I looked at the his stats & they are terrible reading compared to other NRL wingers. I compare him to other NRL wingers because that's who he plays against & should be judged against. You can't say only have Grothe doing the hitups & Burt's job is to just stand out on the wing & wait for things to happen for him. It's all shoulders to the wheel.

.

See you do have bi-polar.

That is not a typical SeftonBoy answer.

Watching the games with my chinese eyes, maybe they should have chinese subtitles during games, I concur with what you have said.

I have actually said the same thing a few years ago.

Burt goes well when the teams confidence is up and he can perform some good alternatives. I believe he has the best boot in our team bar Hayne and should be utilized more rather than Robbo or Mortz 30m punts straight to a fullback or winger.

He can add value. I don't know if it was DA who told him to stay on his wing as in the past, he did take the clearing kicks and also played as second receiver with the #2 on his back.

In 2010, he camped himself on the sideline.

Look, I prefer the grothe type winger or manu vatuvei (sp) but we have what we got and I just think he is our next best option after Grothe.

I think the coach needs to bite the bullet. If we're struggling, Burt has to go. If we are playing with confidence, then he can stay because I genually think he can add value.

I still don't understand why teams don't consistently bomb to burt. I recall Brisbane did it and Falou was all over him but only managed 1 try. Burt didn't do much to diffuse them but sort of got in the way to diffuse them.

 

[yy_cheng]

I understand what you're saying.

Personally, I think this is where the coach should step in. Burty has a few boxes ticked which make him a pretty much automatic selection in many coaches' eyes:

* He's a senior player with a lot of experience

* He's a handy goal-kicker

* He does have a handy footy brain

* He is adored by his teammates; to not select him might cause a few issues.

But most people can see that, while Burty has many positives, his drawback will always be his size. So I would expect a coach worth their salt to come up with a gameplan to counteract this.

We saw parts of it last year - Burt returning the kick, taking the line on, and then passing it to Hayne, who broke up the field and made easy metres. I believe we should be doing this more often - Burty fields the kick, takes on the line and passes to a flying Grothe/Hayne/Tahu (anyone with enough strength to break the line and speed to potentially go all the way). And conversely when Hayne fields the kick, have Burty support him - Hayne, by his very nature, will invariably have 2 or 3 defenders on him every time he returns the ball. It's a perfect time to take the line on and offload to Burty to race through a gap.

In terms of bombs, I would encourage Tahu to drop back, too. Stay close to Burt. If he drops the ball, Tahu can clean up and/or make that desperate tackle while Burt gets ready. If he doesn't contest it, at least Tahu is there, too, to help defend.

I'm no First Grade coach, but I believe a huge part of any successful coach's repertoire is his ability to have a well-balanced squad and to minimise a player's negatives while enhancing his positives with good game plans.

i totally agree. Also get him more involved in those 2nd receiver and runaround plays and kicking for field position.

I don't agree with Tahu going back coz all he wants to do is shoulder charge people. It should be Tahu under the high ball and burt sniffing around to clean it up.

I'd rather Tahu up against a Faloau with Burt sniffing around for the loose ball

 

[yy_cheng]

I know, mate. But if he wasn't really 100%, he shouldn't really have been playing...I know that's the coach's thing (and if you believe the media, Ando made Tahu play injured), but we can't really afford to carry injured players in a competition as tight as the NRL.

And I'm not having a dig at Burty. Love the fella. I just wish sometimes he'd contest more bombs. But I like the guy. He has got motzy.

Well I disagree. Depending on the injury.

Remember 09, I think a number of blokes had injuries, Fui, Hindy, Caylo et al.
If they didn't play, we probably would not have made the GF.

They just have to manage it and really look after the injury.

 

[Eelementary]

i totally agree. Also get him more involved in those 2nd receiver and runaround plays and kicking for field position.

I don't agree with Tahu going back coz all he wants to do is shoulder charge people. It should be Tahu under the high ball and burt sniffing around to clean it up.

I'd rather Tahu up against a Faloau with Burt sniffing around for the loose ball

True. I only mentioned Timana dropping back because he's traditionally the centre. But either one would work. We just need to cover for Burty's deficiencies.

 

[mrpwnd]

Well I disagree. Depending on the injury.

Remember 09, I think a number of blokes had injuries, Fui, Hindy, Caylo et al.
If they didn't play, we probably would not have made the GF.

They just have to manage it and really look after the injury.

It's pretty damn hard to carry on with a massive purple/blue smiley face right on your ass cheek, I really felt for him when he copped the knee after scoring that try against the tigers last year.

Anyway, Burt was really the least of our problems this year. What's a winger of Burt's style going to do when the team is down and the halves are performing poorly.
There are a lot of wingers that play like Burt, even Nightingale and Morris who Sefton seems to rate. What do those 2 offer when Hornby and Soward are out of options? Nothing, maybe Nightingale can pull off a decent scoot from dummy half every now and then, but they are no 'game breakers' as Sefton seems to want Burt to be.
For me, Burt is the type of winger that adds an extra dimension and degree of creativity when the game is either evenly matched or when we're slightly/entirely ahead of the opponent.
Great finisher, I don't recall one instance where he's let us down in that area, in fact Tahu's been more unreliable in that area imo.
Solid defender despite his size
Vision along with the skills to compliment it, so few wingers can actively put their fullback into open space, some dopes seem to forget a lot of Hayne's linebreaks come off the back of Burt's vision during a kick return.
Reading of the game, when has he ever tried to overplay his hand by sprinting closer to the sideline only to get pushed out like a nuffy? Very rarely, recall the gold coast game last year in the finals where he made a sh*t load of breaks and was smart enough to stray away from the sideline with enough time to spread enough distance so that the opposition don't push him out.

I'll be the first to admit he had a disappointing year, but i'd rather be looking at other nuffies first, i.e. Morts, Robson, KK, MK, Inu and Tahu, all whom have been much worse than Burt's worst games.

Burt's been MIA a few times too many this year, but to say him being there would have changed the result, or that he should step up and enter a league beyond the Uate's and Folau's is a massive stretch.

 

[Eelementary]

Well I disagree. Depending on the injury.

Remember 09, I think a number of blokes had injuries, Fui, Hindy, Caylo et al.
If they didn't play, we probably would not have made the GF.

They just have to manage it and really look after the injury.

Yeah, I suppose. I mean you can play on with, say, a broken hand if you're a prop (been there, done that). It's not easy or comfortable, but seeing as your whole job is to run and tackle, you don't really need a functional hand.

But if the theory about Burty being hurt in his buttocks is right, well, in my opinion (and let me reiterate I love the bloke), he should have been playing for Wenty. An injury to the buttocks like Burty has/had would hinder running, as well as leaping and junking and weaving.

But it's all speculation.

 

[lingard]

I don't think he is boy, more like an old codger. hahahah.

Well I won't discriminate against someone who can't express himself civilly.

For all we know, he might have bi-polar or a mental disease or just on the grog too much.


I like Tim Smith and he has bi-polar and he is fighting demons.

Seftonboy can sometimes make a decent argument too.

Fair enough. You`re probably right. I still think he`s unnecessarily rude, though.

 

[lingard]

To be fair, I seem to remember Mortimer and Robson working as well once upon a time...

Yes, that`s right, they did. But for the whole of the 2010 season, Mortimer and Keating, Mortimer and Robson, Robson and Keating didn`t work. And one game with: 7. Robson; 6. Humble did work - but Anderson never tried it again.

 

[lingard]

Exactly right Eelementary. The first thing I noticed about Burt was his reluctance to take a bomb. I thought he looked a bit tentative & while I'm not saying he was scared - he looked scared. Not physically but scared to make a mistake which is an attitude you can't have. Then I noticed that every time he took a dummy half run he got dominated & sometimes pushed back 5-10 metres or submitted resulting in a slow play the ball. The Parramatta set of six was on the backfoot straight away. Then after getting frustrated with the guy I looked at the his stats & they are terrible reading compared to other NRL wingers. I compare him to other NRL wingers because that's who he plays against & should be judged against. You can't say only have Grothe doing the hitups & Burt's job is to just stand out on the wing & wait for things to happen for him. It's all shoulders to the wheel.

Boxhead - I did watch the first 13 rounds very intently & Burt never set the house on fire. Read the NRL stats for wingers & see where he sits on metres gained & hitups overall. Abominal.

ParraFan09 - Hayne is a freak but I thought he had a low season except for a purple patch for 6 weeks or so after Origin. I think he tries to do it all because other guys don't take some responsilibiliy letting him to play his natural game.

1. What did you think of Luke Burt`s 2009 season?
2. Just because MOST NRL wingers these days are in the mould of a Grothe or a Tuquiri doesn`t mean the HAVE to be. Burt plays a different game and is a different style of winger. It`s not valid to compare him with Grothe. There are so many things Burt can do that Grothe couldn`t do in his dreams.

 

[Springs]

Yes, that`s right, they did. But for the whole of the 2010 season, Mortimer and Keating, Mortimer and Robson, Robson and Keating didn`t work. And one game with: 7. Robson; 6. Humble did work - but Anderson never tried it again.

When was that? If it was the Manly game then it was Mortimer that played halfback. And surely that didn't work considering how bad Mortimer really is and how 'he is not a halfback, he is not a halfback...'

And Mortimer and Robson had I think 4 games in the 6 and 7 before Robson was moved to 9.

 

[Raudonikis]

i have a feeling alot of people on here will be proven wrong(re morts) next season

 

[yy_cheng]

i have a feeling alot of people on here will be proven wrong(re morts) next season

Well that's a good thing. It means he'll be playing well.

But I still maintain if we don't get a established halfback, he'll still struggle.

 

[lingard]

When was that? If it was the Manly game then it was Mortimer that played halfback. And surely that didn't work considering how bad Mortimer really is and how 'he is not a halfback, he is not a halfback...'

And Mortimer and Robson had I think 4 games in the 6 and 7 before Robson was moved to 9.

You`re right; I stand corrected. It was Mortimer 7 and Humble 6.
My overall point is that Humble really hasn`t had a chance to prove himself in his favoured position of five-eight.

 

[Wise Old Eel]

1. The reason I personally place so much emphasis on winning a World Cup when you're not coaching the Aussies is because of exactly that - you're not coaching the Aussies; you're coaching against the best of the very best, not with them.

So it must say something that he was able to lead them to victory.

But back on topic:

2. I think we'll start off with 6. Mortimer 7. Robson again.

1. That argument [in my opinion] may have had more validity 10 years earlier when there was only a sprinkling of NZ players with ability in the NRL. These days, every club has a few. They are big, strong & have been playing under Aussie conditions for most of their careers. It was only a matter of time before they caught up. This was the whole point of the inclusion of the NZ Warriors in the NRL. The other obvious point is that he had the assistance of Wayne Bennett. The guy hasn't done anything on his own, yet there are those out there hailing him as the next supercoach in waiting. The word going around is that he is seeking Wayne's assistance again for the 4 Nations. Surely, he would want to prove himself by going it alone so as to quell the Parra fans' anxiety (mine included) about 2011?

2. Then we will struggle big time. Robson is barely a first grader (but can do the basics) & Mortimer is no where near one as yet.

WOE

 

[Wise Old Eel]

i have a feeling alot of people on here will be proven wrong(re morts) next season

Unless the kid suddenly develops abilities he simply does not have, I highly doubt that.

He has a big heart, he backs up well after someone else creates a break and a tenacious kick-chase. That is it. You need much more than that to be a half/five eighth in an NRL team (or any Rugby League team for that matter). The side managed to carry him through the latter stages of 2009 because of the huge roll they were on. In 2010, the other clubs were able to lift a gear against the Eels because they knew what to expect. This highlighted Mortimer's (in particular) deficiencies. You can't continue to carry baggage when you're travelling up hill. Unless we unveil some gun halfback who will do all the skilled stuff & allow Mortimer to just pick up the scraps, we will struggle in 2011.

Here's hoping I am wrong. Go the Eels!

WOE

 

[The Engineers Room]

I think people on here are blaming the halves too much for this year. The lack of ball runners and the negative gameplan are more important. Also, the forwards were too negative and didn't look to pass at all allowing defences to rush up and bunch in and slowed our play the ball.

 

[Wise Old Eel]

I think people on here are blaming the halves too much for this year. The lack of ball runners and the negative gameplan are more important. Also, the forwards were too negative and didn't look to pass at all allowing defences to rush up and bunch in and slowed our play the ball.

Not at all. I think Anderson summed up pretty quickly that, by necessity, we had to play an unstructured, second phase-based game due to the glaring deficiencies in our halves' abilities.

It wasn't that the halves didn't "do their job", it was more that the halves weren't capable of playing a standard-structured game. Unfortunately, for Anderson, it seems to work as a shock tactic but not all the time. As previously stated, no one really saw it coming or, when they did, had any answer to shutting it down in 2009. In 2010, everyone knew what to expect because we were stuck with the same handful of uncreative halves again. The game plan for other teams became obvious. Limit Hayne's imput (as much as possible) & defend in packs, having someone ready to tackle the next player waiting for the offload.

I don't "blame" our halves for playing poorly, I just acknowlegded they were (& still are) limited in their abilities. Kearney sure has his work cut out for him. If he tries to play a more "structured" type of football, the halves do not have the necessary skills to trouble the opposition.

Anyway, once again, I hope I get proven wrong & we have a great 2011. I just don't see it happening without different personnel in the halves.

WOE

 

[Djay]

As great as 09 was seeing as though we didn't win the premiership it was a bad thing in hindsight. We thought we were going to go in to 2010 with the same team and play with the same roll on.

But we were found out, especially at how bad our halves really are/were.