What's new
The Front Row Forums

Register a free account today to become a member of the world's largest Rugby League discussion forum! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Ho Hum II

Most Annoying Poster?


  • Total voters
    6
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.

alien

Referee
Messages
20,279
I was talking about vaccinations in general. If you were just talking about that single jab I appologaise for being confused. Although I would be interested to see any scientific evidence of people having a reaction to a flu jab.

i know i got some vaccinations before the age of 11, but i don't know what they were for, but maybe that covers me from some illnesses already - i don't know. i know they weren't flu vaccinations. there were quite a few people in australia who had bad reactions to the flu vaccine a few years ago. i'm pretty sure it was one of the times where they put multiple vaccines into 1, and it wasn't properly tested, except for on the people who got it i guess. i know it's just a small percentage, but the way i see it is why would i even take that small risk when i hardly ever get sick anyway. if i was sick a lot then maybe i'd consider it. some viruses can effect older people more so maybe it is more important for them to get vaccinated, or anyone with a weak immune system. that's up to them though.

with a quick search i found this

Flu shots with side-effects on offer again
THE AUSTRALIAN FEBRUARY 16, 2012 12:00AM

081901-120216-fluvax.jpg

Perth mother Kirsten Button with her toddler Saba, who suffered brain damage after a Fluvax shot in 2010. Picture: Colin Murty Source: The Australian

A FLU vaccine banned for children and found to trigger the most side-effects in adults has again been selected for the nation's flu immunisation program, on the grounds an Australian-made product would guarantee supply.

Taxpayers will spend $117 million on a contract for Australian pharmaceutical giant CSL to supply the nation's seasonal and pandemic flu vaccines until 2016.

CSL's Fluvax product remains banned for children younger than five, having triggered febrile convulsions in one in 100 children in 2010. The federal Health Department's Therapeutic Goods Administration, which has yet to determine the cause of the fits in children, has released new data revealing Fluvax was four times more likely to trigger side-effects in adults than two rival vaccines.

The Australian can reveal that despite the finding, the Health Department has renewed CSL's contract to supply flu vaccines under the National Immunisation Program, which gives free flu shots to the over-65s, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders, pregnant women, homeless people and children or adults with underlying health conditions such as impaired immunity, heart or respiratory disease and diabetes.

A Health Department spokeswoman said yesterday CSL was the only vaccine manufacturer able to guarantee sufficient supplies in time for the program to start next month. "CSL is the only onshore manufacturer of influenza vaccine and, as such, is the only supplier that can guarantee sufficient supply of influenza vaccine to allow the national vaccination program to commence on 15 March each year, and ensure protection of people well in advance of the influenza season," the spokeswoman said.

She said Fluvax would not be used in children younger than 10, who would be given Fluarix, which is manufactured by British-based GlaxoSmithKline, or Vaxigrip, which is made by French pharmaceutical company Sanofi.

Perth mother Kirsten Button, whose toddler Saba suffered brain damage after her Fluvax shot in 2010, said yesterday she was "shocked" the government would award the contract to CSL when it did not know why Fluvax had caused so many febrile convulsions. "What assurance does the public have, when they have not explained to us what happened with Fluvax in the first place?" Ms Button said.

She said Saba had been in perfect health before her flu shot, but 16 hours later was on life support, with brain injury and organ damage.

Now two months shy of her third birthday, Saba has epilepsy and is fed through a tube.

"She doesn't talk, she doesn't walk, she doesn't eat and she can't see properly," Ms Button said. However, the little girl does occasionally reward her parents with a smile.

CSL was awarded the $117m contract in December, and the information was published on the federal government's tender database last Friday.

Sanofi-Aventis was awarded a $69.5m contract while GlaxoSmithKline received a $14.7m contract - both to supply seasonal and pandemic flu vaccines for five years.

The contracts coincide with a new TGA review that reveals the risk of side-effects in adults from Fluvax in 2010 was "modestly higher" than for two rival brands.

Fluvax was 14.5 times more likely to cause a headache and nine times more likely to cause fatigue than Vaxigrip.

The data - based on an analysis of "adverse events" in adults vaccinated during the 2010 flu season - reveals Fluvax was 4.4 times more likely to cause vomiting and 10.7 times more likely to cause injection site pain than Influvac, made in The Netherlands for Abbott Australasia.

A CSL spokeswoman said the "key finding" of the TGA study was that "the safety profile of Fluvax in adolescents and adults continues to be acceptable, and that the vaccine therefore remains suitable for use in these age groups".

She said CSL was close to finishing its investigation into the cause of the convulsions, and would make the results public.

The Health spokeswoman said the TGA data did not show any adults suffered febrile convulsions after Fluvax, and most side-effects concerned pain around the injection area.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...s-on-offer-again/story-fn59nokw-1226272233348
 

sensesmaybenumbed

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
29,224
Nobody in the healthcare profession denies that these things happen, and its awful when they do.

HOWEVER

The odds of this are tiny. Much lower than complications from the actual infection that it protects against. FFS, an anti vax group paid for a study to disprove it, and all the study found was more evidence to add to the vast piles we already have that prove, statistically speaking, that vaccines prevent waaaay more problems than they cause. I certainly have my child vaccinated, and she attends a daycare that expects others to do the same and prove it or find somewhere else.

Citing an article from the newspaper that mostly mentions minor side effects and one absolutely incredibly unlucky example ignores all the proof on the other side of the coin.

People forget so easily. Polio, smallpox, measles, diphtheria, tetanus, all these killed waaay more frequently than vaccines, and its reduced these diseases to pretty much zero while impacting far fewer people. No. Vaccines are not 100% safe.

What I can say with absolute certainty is that they are MUCH less likely to cause a medical emergency than the disease they protect against, even taking into account that not everyone will be infected.

It's easy to point to isolated examples to prove a point, but the statistics disagree with your n of 1. Vastly.
 

alien

Referee
Messages
20,279
Nobody in the healthcare profession denies that these things happen, and its awful when they do.

HOWEVER

The odds of this are tiny. Much lower than complications from the actual infection that it protects against. FFS, an anti vax group paid for a study to disprove it, and all the study found was more evidence to add to the vast piles we already have that prove, statistically speaking, that vaccines prevent waaaay more problems than they cause. I certainly have my child vaccinated, and she attends a daycare that expects others to do the same and prove it or find somewhere else.

Citing an article from the newspaper that mostly mentions minor side effects and one absolutely incredibly unlucky example ignores all the proof on the other side of the coin.

People forget so easily. Polio, smallpox, measles, diphtheria, tetanus, all these killed waaay more frequently than vaccines, and its reduced these diseases to pretty much zero while impacting far fewer people. No. Vaccines are not 100% safe.

What I can say with absolute certainty is that they are MUCH less likely to cause a medical emergency than the disease they protect against, even taking into account that not everyone will be infected.

It's easy to point to isolated examples to prove a point, but the statistics disagree with your n of 1. Vastly.

i'm not disagreeing with you
 

Rabbits20

Immortal
Messages
41,893
"vague waffle" in your opinion maybe. one of the only things i like about sanders is he can't be bought, and the same goes for trump. that's probably why a lot of people who like trump actually prefer sanders over hillary. sanders just had a big defeat - he doesn't have much chance of winning. i haven't answered the question you keep asking because it's rude to ask, and is really none of your business. i don't have a problem with medicare. it's not that i'm against all social systems, but some go too far. there needs to be the right balance. for example, sanders thinks that going to uni should be free. that is just ridiculous and unrealistic in my opinion. tax payers shouldn't be paying for people to go to uni. going to uni isn't as important as things like health care. i hardly even use medicare. i used to be sick a lot when i was a lot younger but i don't seem to get sick now. i don't take antibiotics, and i don't get vaccinations. enjoy your fruit salad and green tea, or whatever you have for breakfast.

I haven't really followed th stalk on this issue.

But Medicare is important.

Correct re the Uni debate in your post alien. Sanders is wrong.

Well I get the flu vaccine very year as I work with the public and normally need like 2 doses of antibiotics a year.
 

Rabbits20

Immortal
Messages
41,893
a low percentage can still be a lot of people because of the total number given. i wasn't trying to be misleading - i promise. i will say though in regards to the flu vaccines, there is often a lot of fear spread through the media about how bad a type of flu actually is - they often overexaggerate imo. like i said, i haven't had any vaccines since before the age of 11 and i hardly ever get sick, so it's not like i have an urgent need to get the flu vaccine. other people can make their own choice - it's not my business

Well my Mum is getting on and if she hadn't had the flu vaccine she'd be dead as of now.

They don't exaggerate. I disagree completely. You have to be careful with health and they rightfully tell us. No way at all is it exaggeration.

My Mother had swine flu, one of the influenzas and thyroid issues.
 

Rabbits20

Immortal
Messages
41,893
That's a misleading argument. The number of people who suffer adverse reactions from vaccinations is very low relative to the number of doses delivered, and far lower than complications caused by the disease they protect against.

Surprisingly I agree with you senseless.

That's a first:lol:
 

Rabbits20

Immortal
Messages
41,893
You're missing the point. The number of adverse reactions in people is still far lower than the number of complications that would have been caused by the actual disease if there was an outbreak in the general population as there used to be before vaccinations were introduced. Yes, you might get ill from a jab. The odds of that happening are far lower than the odds of getting the disease and suffering even riskier health problems.

Being vaccinated even though you are strong and healthy also reduces the odds (immensely) of being infected and becoming a vector for the disease to be passed on to those who are not as strong and healthy. I think of it as a public service. I actually had pertussis 7 years ago, and it was not fun. I got a booster as soon as it was known, and why? To protect others. I was also very careful for the length of time I was contagious. No public transport, a mask when in public and avoiding the need to be so.
The thought of a newborn getting it is horrifying, especially if the vector is a sefish individual who thinks their individual rights are more important than those of others for such a relatively tiny risk.


I agree again senseless.

Very good post.
 

Rabbits20

Immortal
Messages
41,893
For what it's worth, your opinion my be considered valid IF you don't coat it with multiple layers of shit and act like a child if someone forms a different view.

I can argue my point.

You are entitled to your opinion.

I don't act like a child.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top