Honestly, which of these players are of a first grade standards...?

[The Colonel]

So please enlighten us as to the list and the value of the suspected contracts? Cause plainly I think you will find with the sort of money for Hayne, Inu, and Feleti that you believe they are on, that you would be greatly under valuing some of our talent.

I agree that these are all guesstimates, but your guesstimates are that they are on said amount of money yet you don't show what the rest of the squad is on, so you could be robbing Peter to pay Paul.

If you can not show how they can be on that sort of money, then really how can I believe your argument?

I just think people are over estimating a lot of our players actual worth.

And as it stands with the current squad - none of whom outside those top 5 or six excluding Moimoi who isn't on the largest deal because of his repeated misdemeanours at the judiciary have played Origin or International football.

Hindmarsh $ 450,000.00
Cayless $ 400,000.00
Hayne $ 375,000.00
Inu $ 300,000.00
Mateo $ 275,000.00
Finch $ 220,000.00
Moimoi $ 140,000.00
Grothe $ 170,000.00
Lowrie $ 170,000.00
Burt $ 145,000.00
Cordoba $ 95,000.00
Hauraki $ 90,000.00
Oake $ 55,000.00
Keating, K $ 110,000.00
Keating, M $ 95,000.00
Smith $ 125,000.00
Mitchell $ 75,000.00
Tautai $ 75,000.00
Paulo $ 80,000.00
Reddy $ 95,000.00
Galuvao $ 120,000.00
Baumann $ 55,000.00
Robinson $ 75,000.00
Mannah $ 95,000.00

Total: $3,885,000

*allowing for bonuses and the possibility some of my guesstimates are way off that still leaves some of those who Peter robbed Paul $215000 to distribute to some of those players who you may think I underestimated.

 

[MarkInTheStands]

NB-This is based roughly on what I, as an outsider looking in, would be paying these players based on current form, current experience, and future potential....not what I believe they are currently on.
That's before any veterans discounts, but also before any bonuses...And there are probably still some guys being payed overs from the fringe blokes. Obviously it's not stunningly accurate, rather simplistic as it is, but still almost 400k under the cap, and probably more if I shift the fringe blokes down a bit...

The Problem there is, would any of the players mentioned have signed with the club for what your offering. The Idea is more to get an idea for balancing a salary cap from a club perspective, as we still want people to play for us.

Any rate, my guess (I have been trying to get the number to fit all day).

1 Nathan HINDMARSH 450
2 Nathan CAYLESS [C] 400
3 Jarryd HAYNE 275
4 Krisnan INU 225
5 Brett FINCH 220
6 Fuifui MOIMOI 200
7 Feleti MATEO 190
8 Luke BURT 160
9 Ben SMITH 160
10 Eric GROTHE Jnr 150
11 Josh CORDOBA 150
12 Matthew KEATING 150
13 Todd LOWRIE 150
14 Junior PAULO 140
15 Weller HAURAKI 130
16 Taulima TAUTAI 125
17 Kristopher KEATING 125
18 Brendan OAKE 120
19 Joe GALUVAO 100
20 Etu UAISELE 85
21 James GREHAN 75
22 Justin HORO 75
23 Broderick WRIGHT 90
24 Tim MANNAH 80
25 Jeremy LATIMORE 75

 

[MarkInTheStands]

I just think people are over estimating a lot of our players actual worth.

And as it stands with the current squad - none of whom outside those top 5 or six excluding Moimoi who isn't on the largest deal because of his repeated misdemeanours at the judiciary have played Origin or International football.

Total: $3,885,000

*allowing for bonuses and the possibility some of my guesstimates are way off that still leaves some of those who Peter robbed Paul $215000 to distribute to some of those players who you may think I underestimated.

Yeah well I can see where you would do that, means we are paying a lot of players less than the average (4,100,000 / 25 = 164,000). Interesting.

 

[Bazal]

The Problem there is, would any of the players mentioned have signed with the club for what your offering. The Idea is more to get an idea for balancing a salary cap from a club perspective, as we still want people to play for us.

I honestly think most would...Hayne, Inu and Mateo are on more in my scenario than your guess, and Hayne and Inu are on a similar amount to others higher end guesses. Hindmarsh, well, I love the bloke and he is a legend...but if he's on 450k (and I have no doubt your guesses are much more informed than mine would be) I'll deadset choke. That's similar to what SBW was on, for a bloke who has become nothing more than a tackling machine ffs. Cayless would be the only "top level" guy I could see perhaps not taking that money, and to be perfectly honest that wouldn't bother me in the slightest.

Perhaps I'm a bit more ruthless, but I think our club places too much emphasis and importance on fringe players and kids salaries. Fair enough, for guys like the Keatings, Hayne, Inu, Mateo, Mannah who are going to be a future core of this team, all going well...but for guys like Oake, Hauraki, Paulo, Tautai, Cordoba to be on 120-150k is too much IMO. If they want more, let them look elsewhere. They haven't demonstrated enough on the field to justify that pay packet IMO and are, as fringe players, quite replaceable. Probably for less too. I think that's where we fall down in terms of our cap personally.

 

[The Colonel]

Yeah well I can see where you would do that, means we are paying a lot of players less than the average (4,100,000 / 25 = 164,000). Interesting.

Minimum wage is only 55,000 MITS. There would be very few players making the average in most Top 25's in the NRL. There are very few players in the NRL making over $400,000 as well but in most clubs there would be at least two.

 

[The Colonel]

I honestly think most would...Hayne, Inu and Mateo are on more in my scenario than your guess, and Hayne and Inu are on a similar amount to others higher end guesses. Hindmarsh, well, I love the bloke and he is a legend...but if he's on 450k (and I have no doubt your guesses are much more informed than mine would be) I'll deadset choke.

What people have to remember is he did sign that deal a few years ago though remember when he was at the top of his game. It doesn't necessarily reduce over time. Maybe it is more than what he would earn now but two years ago he was the best backrower in the game. Even doing the work he is he'd still be in the top five.

 

[Bazal]

What people have to remember is he did sign that deal a few years ago though remember when he was at the top of his game. It doesn't necessarily reduce over time. Maybe it is more than what he would earn now but two years ago he was the best backrower in the game. Even doing the work he is he'd still be in the top five.

Well that's true, and I guess it shows the problems with long term deals...Hindy these days is, IMO, not worth 450k a season.

 

[The Colonel]

Well that's true, and I guess it shows the problems with long term deals...Hindy these days is, IMO, not worth 450k a season.

Probably not worth it, no. But would you agree that over time he has certainly earnt it?

 

[Bazal]

Probably not worth it, no. But would you agree that over time he has certainly earnt it?

I personally would, as a fan....but can you run a footy club like that in this day and age? I think that's the question...he's been an incredible servant, but take even 150k off him and Cayless' deals and that gives us money for a hard head prop and maybe even a decent wide running backrower next year, which is what we need IMO. I think giving him the money just for being a great servant is a poor business strategy.

 

[Hollywood Jesus]

I was just wondering if you could inform me of the combined salary of these 2 players? Or at least your estimations.

If it's over $300K combined then we're getting screwed.

 

[MarkInTheStands]

Minimum wage is only 55,000 MITS. There would be very few players making the average in most Top 25's in the NRL. There are very few players in the NRL making over $400,000 as well but in most clubs there would be at least two.

Thing is Colonel, after 2007 I don't think any of our players would have taken "minimum wage"

 

[MarkInTheStands]

If it's over $300K combined then we're getting screwed.

Well we all know you think we are being screwed.

 

[The Colonel]

I personally would, as a fan....but can you run a footy club like that in this day and age? I think that's the question...he's been an incredible servant, but take even 150k off him and Cayless' deals and that gives us money for a hard head prop and maybe even a decent wide running backrower next year, which is what we need IMO. I think giving him the money just for being a great servant is a poor business strategy.

Easy to say take it off him, but can you? It is a legal contract. Other than letting him go to another club and still pay some dollars towards his contract or across to England there isn't anyway of "taking" the money off him.

These are the decisions you have to make. Would you ask Hayne or Inu to give some back because they didn't play very well this year? The response wouldn't be very forthcoming I don't think.

 

[The Colonel]

Thing is Colonel, after 2007 I don't think any of our players would have taken "minimum wage"

Maybe. But they wouldn't be that far over it. Are teams knocking down the doors of Oake, Codroba, Hauraki and Paulo? Mannah, Robinson and Baumann may have had other offers but base salary for next year could be very different with bonuses taken into account - (remember these than take effect in 2010) and not this year. We may well lose some more players again next year to keep the younger ones as bonuses etc kick in.

 

[Bazal]

Easy to say take it off him, but can you? It is a legal contract. Other than letting him go to another club and still pay some dollars towards his contract or across to England there isn't anyway of "taking" the money off him.

These are the decisions you have to make. Would you ask Hayne or Inu to give some back because they didn't play very well this year? The response wouldn't be very forthcoming I don't think.

Sorry, poor phrasing on my part...I didn't physically say "Hindy, we need some money, so we're cutting your deal" I meant to say that if he and Cayless were on smaller deals to start with, by 150k each, then there's our money.

 

[The Colonel]

Sorry, poor phrasing on my part...I didn't physically say "Hindy, we need some money, so we're cutting your deal" I meant to say that if he and Cayless were on smaller deals to start with, by 150k each, then there's our money.

Just back to not necessarily earning his money. Interesting to check the stats here -> http://203.166.101.37/NRL08/index.html

Actually rates in the Top 10 or at worst the Top 20 backrowers in all facets of the game.

Top 10 metres gained
Number 1 for tackles
Top 15 Line breaks
Top 10 Total Runs.

Interesting to see where exactlky he sits in terms of a "poor" season.

 

[Bazal]

Just back to not necessarily earning his money. Interesting to check the stats here -> http://203.166.101.37/NRL08/index.html

Actually rates in the Top 10 or at worst the Top 20 backrowers in all facets of the game.

Top 10 metres gained
Number 1 for tackles
Top 15 Line breaks
Top 10 Total Runs.

Interesting to see where exactlky he sits in terms of a "poor" season.

Personally as a fan, I agree that he's earned it. I'm more trying to look from the business side of things in that, as a club, was the four or five year deal or whatever it was for 450k a short-sighted business decision given the climate around the club at the time? IIRC he re-signed in 05 or 06, didn't he? Surely with the club knowing that Smithy was on the way out, combined with Hindy's age, it might have been more prudent to look at a three year deal and then evaluate in 08 or 09? I'm no businessman so I'm really just postulating out loud, in a way...

 

[bartman]

Interesting exercise.

Here's what I came up with for how I think this year's cap was spent, what I think players would have been on at the start of this season.

Cayless 350K
Hindmarsh 350K
- - - - -
T Smith 275K
Riddell 275K
Hayne 260K
Inu 260K
Mateo 250K
Finch 250K
- - - - -
Moimoi 200K
Grothe 180K
Wagon 180K
Burt 160K
Robinson 160K
B Smith 160K
- - - - -
Reddy 80K
M Keating 80K
Cordoba 80K
Lowrie 80K
Hauraki 80K
Oake 80K
Paulo 80K
Galuvao 80K
- - - - -
Tautai 50K (min wage, expected to be in U20s squad)
K Keating 50K (min wage, expected to be in U20s squad)
Williams 50K (min wage, expected to be in U20s squad)
- - - - -
Mitchell 0K (came into top 25 after Tim's departure, $50 min wage paid from $350K for players outside top 25)
Wright 0K (Wenty squad, game payment made from $350K for players outside top 25)

TOTAL = $4.1 mil
(Club to claim the 100K overspend from NRL-pledged compensation for paying Tim out for the season when he deaprted.)

 

[Redback71]

hopefully the club will have a proper off season for 08/09 instead of player soccer, basketball, cricket and what ever other bloody sport they played

 

[bartman]

For next year in 2009's cap, I've had a fiddle with my above guesses and factored in a minor/inflation payrise for everyone continuing without an negotiated upgrade.

Here's what I come up with:

Cayless 370K
Hindmarsh 370K
Hayne 350K (upgrade)
Inu 350K (upgrade)
Finch 325K (upgrade)
Mateo 325K (upgrade)
- - - - -
Moimoi 210K
Grothe 190K
Burt 170K
B Smith 170K
Reddy 160K (upgrade)
- - - - -
M Keating 115K (upgrade)
K Keating 115K (upgrade)
- - - - -
Cordoba 85K
Lowrie 85K
Hauraki 85K
Oake 85K
Paulo 85K
Galuvao 85K
Tautai 80K (upgrade)
????????? 80K (player Hagan has spoken about trying to get in as a back up hooker)
- - - - -
Wright 52.5K (minimum)
Mitchell 52.5K (minimum)
T Robinson 52.5K (minimum)
????? 52.5K (miniumum, promotion from U20s/Wenty)
- - - - -
If we use more than 25 players in NRL, the money for min wage of other juniors promoted through the ranks can come from the $350K outside the cap for that puprose.

TOTAL = 4.1 mil

This takes us under the cap, shows where all the money from the deaprting players wages went in negotiatied upgrades, explains why they only had 80K of NRL/Top 25 Cap Money to throw at Williams before he left, explains the rumours about Moimoi being shopped around to bulk up available spending money, and explains why at the end of it all the only recruitment we can do is for the mid-talent type of player as a back up squad hooker in case MK goes down with a long injury.