Honestly, which of these players are of a first grade standards...?

[emjaycee]

Yeah but with those blokes going, you pick up and upgrade players like Matt and Kris Keating, and everyone mentioned in the "Talents in the Wings" article, plus those that we confirmed as resigning from the 20's to bring through like the 2 Tim's, plus you sign Finch who was almost certain to be squeezed out next year if not for Tim Smith's departure. Doing the Maths from what I have heard and some of what I know there is very little way anyone can tell me that they are on more that $500,000.

Seriously I would love to get some people to just sit down with Excel and nut out a salary cap. I did the same sort of exercise with Tony Zappia last year and I have to tell you, it is very hard to put 25 players into 4.1 Million.

I did the exercise MITS but I have no idea on what anyone is on - this is just my estimates of 2009 Top 25.

Total Spend $4,085,000
Hindmarsh $450,000
Cayless $400,000
Finch $250,000
Hayne $250,000
Inu $250,000
Mateo $200,000
Burt $170,000
Grothe $170,000
Cordoba $125,000
Hauraki $125,000
Keating K $125,000
Keating M $125,000
Moi Moi $125,000
Paulo $125,000
Reddy $125,000
Smith $125,000
Tautai $125,000
Lowrie $110,000
Oake $110,000
Baumann $100,000* includes NRL Debut bonus
Galavou $100,000* Do Souths pay any in 2009?
Horo $100,000* includes NRL Debut bonus
Mitchell $100,000* includes NRL Debut bonus
Robinson T $100,000* includes NRL Debut bonus
Wright $100,000

 

[MarkInTheStands]

I did the exercise MITS but I have no idea on what anyone is on - this is just my estimates of 2009 Top 25.

Yeah as I said it is an interesting exercise isn't it. I would think if a few other people did it they might re-think some theories about what Players are earning and maybe the value of players in the Market place.

 

[MarkInTheStands]

Also emjaycee, I notice you don't have players like Latimore, Mannah, Grehan, and Jono Wright in your Top 25 either.

 

[bartman]

I might try the Excel spreadsheet thing later in the week for a bit of fun. Am sure I won't get it right either :lol:

Minimum top 25 wage for 2009 is $52,500 or therabouts for players 18-25 in the squad, so higher for the top 17 I believe? And we need to fit 25 players under $4.1mill, with some minimun spend level clubs have to reach as well.

What is the NRL debut bonus MJC? I've read about a $150,000 marquee player allowance for extra money for one player coming from existing club sponsors, not sure if we have anyone in the ten players this is said to apply to? Any other little allowances I've missed that might effect the total?

 

[The Colonel]

Also emjaycee, I notice you don't have players like Latimore, Mannah, Grehan, and Jono Wright in your Top 25 either.

It is unlikely that anyone outside of Mannah would be in the Top 25 from those names listed. Will be interesting to see the list.

Given the NRL minimum being around 50,000 a number of those players emjaycee has mentioned are over what they would be paid.

It is a guessing game because we will never truly know - bonuses would have to be taken into consideration - particularly if any were offered to our players this year based on games played (in reference to players like Wright, Oake, Paulo and Hauraki)

 

[MarkInTheStands]

It is unlikely that anyone outside of Mannah would be in the Top 25 from those names listed. Will be interesting to see the list.

Given the NRL minimum being around 50,000 a number of those players emjaycee has mentioned are over what they would be paid.

It is a guessing game because we will never truly know - bonuses would have to be taken into consideration - particularly if any were offered to our players this year based on games played (in reference to players like Wright, Oake, Paulo and Hauraki)

Yeah but I don't think it will be a great deal less. Remember we have been trying to get these kids to sign up and others have left, that means it is a competitive market, so I don't think we can trust on being able to pay the minimum ($50,000 our side of the top 17) and keep them in our squad.

 

[MarkInTheStands]

I might try the Excel spreadsheet thing later in the week for a bit of fun. Am sure I won't get it right either :lol:

Minimum top 25 wage for 2009 is $52,500 or therabouts for players 18-25 in the squad, so higher for the top 17 I believe? And we need to fit 25 players under $4.1mill, with some minimun spend level clubs have to reach as well.

What is the NRL debut bonus MJC? I've read about a $150,000 marquee player allowance for extra money for one player coming from existing club sponsors, not sure if we have anyone in the ten players this is said to apply to? Any other little allowances I've missed that might effect the total?

All the Salary Cap Rules are here

http://www.nrl.com.au/AbouttheGame/ReferenceCentre/tabid/10429/default.aspx#

 

[The Colonel]

Yeah but I don't think it will be a great deal less. Remember we have been trying to get these kids to sign up and others have left, that means it is a competitive market, so I don't think we can trust on being able to pay the minimum ($50,000 our side of the top 17) and keep them in our squad.

Oake $110,000
Baumann $100,000* includes NRL Debut bonus
Galavou $100,000* Do Souths pay any in 2009?
Horo $100,000* includes NRL Debut bonus
Mitchell $100,000* includes NRL Debut bonus
Robinson T $100,000* includes NRL Debut bonus
Wright $100,000

Mitchell, Robinson and possibly Horo may be on around what has been stated.

I don't think Oakey will be pulling 100k. Be nice for him if he is but if he is getting much over the minimum I'll be surprised. Baumann and Wright may be close but again not much more above minimum - both may well be in the second tier.

Galuvao would probably be on a bit more than that as well, and Souths aren't picking up any of his bill next year.

Even Paulo and Joel would be less than what is stated in emjaycee's estimates.

Personally for our top six - Hindmarsh $400k+, Cayless $400k, Hayne (given the marketing both Souths and Beavis put out) $350+, Inu $300+ and Mateo $250+. The only figure I think he may have come close to is possibly Finch.

 

[MarkInTheStands]

Mitchell, Robinson and possibly Horo may be on around what has been stated.

I don't think Oakey will be pulling 100k. Be nice for him if he is but if he is getting much over the minimum I'll be surprised. Baumann and Wright may be close but again not much more above minimum - both may well be in the second tier.

Galuvao would probably be on a bit more than that as well, and Souths aren't picking up any of his bill next year.

Even Paulo and Joel would be less than what is stated in emjaycee's estimates.

Personally for our top six - Hindmarsh $400k+, Cayless $400k, Hayne (given the marketing both Souths and Beavis put out) $350+, Inu $300+ and Mateo $250+. The only figure I think he may have come close to is possibly Finch.

So can those figures you quoted balance out over a top 25? Or would they break the cap?

 

[Avenger]

A guide that we can all use is Paul Gallen. A little birdy told me he is on $375,000.

 

[Bazal]

Seriously I would love to get some people to just sit down with Excel and nut out a salary cap. I did the same sort of exercise with Tony Zappia last year and I have to tell you, it is very hard to put 25 players into 4.1 Million.

I'm bored so I had a crack....this is based on my top 25 for next season in another thread.

NB-This is based roughly on what I, as an outsider looking in, would be paying these players based on current form, current experience, and future potential....not what I believe they are currently on.

Player Salary

Luke Burt $125, 000
Nathan Cayless $202, 000
Josh Cordoba $105, 000
Brett Finch $220, 000
Joe Galuvao $110, 000
Eric Grothe $180, 000
Weller Hauraki $105, 000
Jarryd Hayne $320, 000
Nathan Hindmarsh $290, 000
Kris Inu $280, 000
Kris Keating $135, 000
Matt Keating $115, 000
Todd Lowrie $112, 000
Feleti Mateo $385, 000
Anthony Mitchell $72, 000
Fui Fui Moi Moi $210, 000
Brendan Oake $90, 000
Junior Paulo $105, 000
Joel Reddy $115, 000
Ben Smith $115, 000
Taulima Tautai $95, 000
Brod Wright $60, 000
Jono Wright $60, 000
Tim Robinson $60, 000
Justin Horo $60, 000
$3, 723, 000


That's before any veterans discounts, but also before any bonuses...And there are probably still some guys being payed overs from the fringe blokes. Obviously it's not stunningly accurate, rather simplistic as it is, but still almost 400k under the cap, and probably more if I shift the fringe blokes down a bit...

 

[emjaycee]

It is unlikely that anyone outside of Mannah would be in the Top 25 from those names listed. Will be interesting to see the list.

Given the NRL minimum being around 50,000 a number of those players emjaycee has mentioned are over what they would be paid.

It is a guessing game because we will never truly know - bonuses would have to be taken into consideration - particularly if any were offered to our players this year based on games played (in reference to players like Wright, Oake, Paulo and Hauraki)

I based my numbers for the above players on the increase they would probably have in their contract for increased number of NRL games played.

Same concept for what I have termed "NRL Debut Bonus". I am sure A Mitchell would have a clause that if he gets picked in NRL he gets a 'top-up' of x dollars and that would be included in the cap.

 

[emjaycee]

Mitchell, Robinson and possibly Horo may be on around what has been stated.

I don't think Oakey will be pulling 100k. Be nice for him if he is but if he is getting much over the minimum I'll be surprised. Baumann and Wright may be close but again not much more above minimum - both may well be in the second tier.

Galuvao would probably be on a bit more than that as well, and Souths aren't picking up any of his bill next year.

Even Paulo and Joel would be less than what is stated in emjaycee's estimates.

Personally for our top six - Hindmarsh $400k+, Cayless $400k, Hayne (given the marketing both Souths and Beavis put out) $350+, Inu $300+ and Mateo $250+. The only figure I think he may have come close to is possibly Finch.

Mate i have no idea how much any of these guys are on except for what I read here, but somehow I don't see Hayne, Inu and Mateo coming close to the numbers you have quoted here. You are giving the top 6 approx 41% of our total cap and I can't believe that is the case.

 

[The Colonel]

So can those figures you quoted balance out over a top 25? Or would they break the cap?

Using this as a guide.

1. 1. 1. 1. Each NRL Club must ensure that, during each Season:

      1. 1. 1. at least 17 of its Players receive a Minimum Remuneration Package of $55,000; and

      1. 1. 1. a further 8 of its Players receive a Minimum Remuneration Package of $50,000,

      • • (in total ‘Top 25 Players’) provided that this will be assessed at the end of the Season.

      • Minimum Match Fee entitlement

      1. 1. A Player who is not a Top 25 Player will be entitled to a minimum payment of $2,000 for each NRL Competition match he participates in until his remuneration paid reaches $50,000 for a Season. The Player will only be entitled to an additional payment of remuneration above $50,000 if he would be entitled to a greater total payment for the Season under the terms of his Playing Contract.

      • Trained with NRL Full Time Squad for More than Six Weeks

      1. 1. Subject to subclause 8.5, if a Player, who is not a Top 25 Player, trains for a cumulative period of more than six weeks in the NRL Full Time Squad during the period from the first trial game to the Grand Final (but not for the full Season), (whether the Player plays in an NRL Competition match or not) the Player will be entitled to receive a Minimum Remuneration Package (excluding match fees) of at least $25,000 from the NRL Club for that Season.

http://209.85.141.104/search?q=cach...ation+nrl+salary+cap&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=au

Quite possibly I think.

Given the fact that it is alleged that even with players like Riddell, Robinson, Tim Smith and Wagon leavning the club we have only been able to sign two players who were outside the Top 25 this year. All other players were only upgrades and were considered as part of the this years Top 25.

 

[MarkInTheStands]

Using this as a guide.

1. 1. 
      Quite possibly I think.
      
      Given the fact that it is alleged that even with players like Riddell, Robinson, Tim Smith and Wagon leavning the club we have only been able to sign two players who were outside the Top 25 this year. All other players were only upgrades and were considered as part of the this years Top 25.

1. 1. 
      
      Great so I would love to see your entire list.

 

[The Colonel]

Mate i have no idea how much any of these guys are on except for what I read here, but somehow I don't see Hayne, Inu and Mateo coming close to the numbers you have quoted here. You are giving the top 6 approx 41% of our total cap and I can't believe that is the case.

Given we have only signed two players who could actually be from outside the Top 25 this year and are both Under 20's players? Sure, a number of players have received upgrades for this year but Riddell was one of the higher paid players at our club and we had to off load PJ Marsh at the end of last season to apparently be under the cap for this season?

You also have to talke into consideration that Hindmarsh and Cayless along with possibly Burt could well be splitting the $150,000 10 year players amongst them which would reduce the bulk considrably.

I don't think I am far from the money to be honest. We won't ever know how close unless the NRL decides on full transperency.

 

[The Colonel]

Great so I would love to see your entire list.

Why? Just so I can see how hard it is?

It proves absolutely nothing outside of the fact that anyone can be creative with figures. Most of the guesstimates in here are well off the mark as may well be mine.

 

[MarkInTheStands]

Given we have only signed two players who could actually be from outside the Top 25 this year and are both Under 20's players? Sure, a number of players have received upgrades for this year but Riddell was one of the higher paid players at our club and we had to off load PJ Marsh at the end of last season to apparently be under the cap for this season?

You also have to talke into consideration that Hindmarsh and Cayless along with possibly Burt could well be splitting the $150,000 10 year players amongst them which would reduce the bulk considrably.

I don't think I am far from the money to be honest. We won't ever know how close unless the NRL decides on full transperency.

You know that $150,000 is still part of the 4.1 Million.

So is the $300,000 Marquee Player ammount, all under the 4.1 Million.

 

[The Colonel]

I based my numbers for the above players on the increase they would probably have in their contract for increased number of NRL games played.

Same concept for what I have termed "NRL Debut Bonus". I am sure A Mitchell would have a clause that if he gets picked in NRL he gets a 'top-up' of x dollars and that would be included in the cap.

Bonuses for 2008 will become part of the 2009 cap and so forth. Particularly if a player stays with the club.

 

[MarkInTheStands]

Why? Just so I can see how hard it is?

It proves absolutely nothing outside of the fact that anyone can be creative with figures. Most of the guesstimates in here are well off the mark as may well be mine.

So please enlighten us as to the list and the value of the suspected contracts? Cause plainly I think you will find with the sort of money for Hayne, Inu, and Feleti that you believe they are on, that you would be greatly under valuing some of our talent.

I agree that these are all guesstimates, but your guesstimates are that they are on said amount of money yet you don't show what the rest of the squad is on, so you could be robbing Peter to pay Paul.

If you can not show how they can be on that sort of money, then really how can I believe your argument?