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Houston is he a big loss?

Is Houston going to be a big loss?

  • Yes

    Votes: 36 67.9%
  • No

    Votes: 9 17.0%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 8 15.1%

  • Total voters
    53

Alex28

Coach
Messages
12,021
So what you're saying is that Houston got it by default rather than because he was a good leader.
I didn't say it was because he was an outstanding leader. I said he was a "leader of sorts". Prove me wrong.

What the hell are you talking about? Do you really think if we go badly in our first few games it will be purely because Houston isn't on the field? Because that's what you're saying.
That isn't what I was saying at all. You suggested they would potentially have lower morale because of losing that fat tub of lard we lost in December rather than losing Houston this week. You couldn't answer that - that's why you do that word twisting you love to do when you have no point.

Yes he was important to us last year, in a team that didn't achieve a whole lot. He was a big part of why we were only middle of the road.
We reached the finals - that's better than "middle of the road". He was important to us last year. Tell me what has changed within the squad over the off season which would render him "not important" for this season? If he was still important to us, then tell me why he isn't a big loss?

Sounds exactly like my point
I am as shocked as you are that we agree on something. Anything.

Obviously any player leaving a week before the season will be a big loss in the short-term. You'd have to assume this question is in regards to the long-term though, given that it's plain as day otherwise.
So you agree that he is a big loss. Why all the debating? The question is "Houston is he a big loss?". The answer is yes. You agree. I agree. It doesn't matter why he is a big loss. The answer is yes.

I'm interested in Alex's comeback to this post. TBH I think there is not much that he can say.
Turns out there was plenty to say and - no matter how we got there - we both agree that he is a big loss. Hope that interested you.
 

Rolla

Juniors
Messages
2,196
While a teaching degree is certainly not hardest thing you can do at uni, its not exactly easy either...certainly harder than Arts or Science (which is what I've been doing :p). My family is full of teachers and I have shared accomodation with a number of soon-to-be-teachers who had to put quite a fair effort into what they have done! Part of the reason why it appears the entry scores are low is because they probably try to keep as many places open for teachers, as we're starting to need a lot more of them now that all the baby boomer teachers (now in their 50's) are all retiring.

But thats for another thread of course, and doesn't take away from how dumb Houston is and how he is a loss for us :p

Absolutely. Like any degree if you want to do well you need to put more time in....teaching and nursing (recently voted the easiest degree at uni) however all you 'need' is fifty percent to get a degree and any additional marks don't really make much difference when it comes to work, particularly a couple of years back when house did his degree., and in teaching this 50% isnt difficult or overly time consuming...

many teaching/nursing students put extra effort in so they can take more out of the course and take that into their work. Im not trying to take away anything from teachers, im just saying (and i have no idea how house went) that a teaching degree doesnt always make you 'smart' or take much time. I wouldn't read into it too much
 

Big Tim

First Grade
Messages
6,500
Taia 12
Mullo 11
Sau 10
McManus 7
Uate 7
Houston 7
Fa'aoso 7

Inspired me to spam a few more as well

House came 3rd on tries with 6 (equal with Fa'aoso and Sau)

He and Fa'aoso had the most try assists out of the forwards too (3 each)

Now, dont let statistics get in the way of a good argument.

Absolutely. Like any degree if you want to do well you need to put more time in....teaching and nursing (recently voted the easiest degree at uni) however all you 'need' is fifty percent to get a degree and any additional marks don't really make much difference when it comes to work, particularly a couple of years back when house did his degree., and in teaching this 50% isnt difficult or overly time consuming...

many teaching/nursing students put extra effort in so they can take more out of the course and take that into their work. Im not trying to take away anything from teachers, im just saying (and i have no idea how house went) that a teaching degree doesnt always make you 'smart' or take much time. I wouldn't read into it too much

My Fiancee worked real bloody hard on her teaching degree. Honours, scolarship and then a targetted position with a 3 year contract. If teaching is easy, why dont more doctors in training commit suicide?
 

Johns Magic

Referee
Messages
21,654
I didn't say it was because he was an outstanding leader. I said he was a "leader of sorts". Prove me wrong.


That isn't what I was saying at all. You couldn't answer that - that's why you do that word twisting you love to do when you have no point.


We reached the finals - that's better than "middle of the road". He was important to us last year. Tell me what has changed within the squad over the off season which would render him "not important" for this season? If You suggested they would potentially have lower morale because of losing that fat tub of lard we lost in December rather than losing Houston this week.he was still important to us, then tell me why he isn't a big loss?


I am as shocked as you are that we agree on something. Anything.


So you agree that he is a big loss. Why all the debating? The question is "Houston is he a big loss?". The answer is yes. You agree. I agree. It doesn't matter why he is a big loss. The answer is yes.


Turns out there was plenty to say and - no matter how we got there - we both agree that he is a big loss. Hope that interested you.

I just wrote a huge post and then the server broke down so it didn't go through.

In summary:

7th out of 16 is pretty bloody close to middle of the road last time I checked, might want to check your maths.

Of course Houston was very important to us last year when 3 of our other 5 second-rowers were out almost all year. You suddenly become a whole lot more important when you're the last guy left.

Where did I accuse you of saying Houston was an outstanding leader?

Where did I say "You suggested they would potentially have lower morale because of losing that fat tub of lard we lost in December rather than losing Houston this week"?

Where did I say Houston would not be a loss in the short-term? Can you grasp the fact that, as I have plainly stated before, I am talking long-term when I say Houston won't be a big loss?

Stop making sh*t up to come across like you actually have a point.

Let me spell it out for you:

HOUSTON WILL NOT BE A BIG LOSS LONG-TERM, BUT HE WILL BE A HIT TO OUR DEPTH THIS SEASON.

I have never said anything to the contrary. Have a read through this thread and it might dawn on you.
 

Rolla

Juniors
Messages
2,196
Now, dont let statistics get in the way of a good argument.



My Fiancee worked real bloody hard on her teaching degree. Honours, scolarship and then a targetted position with a 3 year contract. If teaching is easy, why dont more doctors in training commit suicide?

When did i say teachers don't work hard? i said they don't have to! sounds to me like your fiancee worked very hard and was very successful. I believe i said that many teachers do this. But to scrape by and get a degree you don't need to. yes i have done teaching courses, yes i have close mates (about 6) doing it now, no they are not all extremely intelligent. For the third time im not saying teachers are stupid, im not saying they don't work hard. I am saying to simply pass a teaching degree ie. obtain a 50% grade, it is not difficult. and there are a hell of a lot more teachers doing degrees then doctors. though im not sure if you are saying more teachers in training commit suicide than docs or a larger percentage...because if it is quantity then that seems obvious to me. but yeah not sure what your getting at.

The reason i brought this up was to say that just cos house has a teaching degree, doesnt make him a smart influence by default.
 

Alex28

Coach
Messages
12,021
I just wrote a huge post and then the server broke down so it didn't go through.

In summary:

7th out of 16 is pretty bloody close to middle of the road last time I checked, might want to check your maths.

Of course Houston was very important to us last year when 3 of our other 5 second-rowers were out almost all year. You suddenly become a whole lot more important when you're the last guy left.

Where did I accuse you of saying Houston was an outstanding leader?

Where did I say "You suggested they would potentially have lower morale because of losing that fat tub of lard we lost in December rather than losing Houston this week"?

Where did I say Houston would not be a loss in the short-term? Can you grasp the fact that, as I have plainly stated before, I am talking long-term when I say Houston won't be a big loss?

Stop making sh*t up to come across like you actually have a point.

Let me spell it out for you:

HOUSTON WILL NOT BE A BIG LOSS LONG-TERM, BUT HE WILL BE A HIT TO OUR DEPTH THIS SEASON.

I have never said anything to the contrary. Have a read through this thread and it might dawn on you.
You get rather agro when people don't agree with you don't you?

Twist things around all you want - we agree that he is a big loss. We've both said it. There were no extensions to the questions. The question was never "will he be a big loss long-term".

7th out of 16th is what it is. You see it as middle of the road. I see it as a pretty good achievement given what we had to get through to get there. Sometimes you have to beyond the numbers and look at how they got there.

You came up with a list of other reasons besides Houston leaving as to why they may struggle - one of those was Wicks leaving. I asked if you thought that the boys would really be more affected by Wicks leaving than Houston. You twisted things around as you do to avoid saying your point was rubbish. Still are apparently.

I didn't say you suggested I said he was an outstanding leader. All I said was he was a leader of sorts and you went on to question me about it. I think we agree that he wasn't a great leader but he was the best we had at the time.

It really doesn't matter why he is a big loss or in what form or level - he'll be a big loss.
 

Johns Magic

Referee
Messages
21,654
You get rather agro when people don't agree with you don't you?

It's frustrating when people lie about what you've said.

Twist things around all you want - we agree that he is a big loss. We've both said it. There were no extensions to the questions. The question was never "will he be a big loss long-term".

So can you show me where it was "will he be a loss in the short-term"? Where was that extension? You're not making things up again are you Alex?

7th out of 16th is what it is. You see it as middle of the road. I see it as a pretty good achievement given what we had to get through to get there. Sometimes you have to beyond the numbers and look at how they got there.

7th out of 16 is by definition middle of the road. Might want to buy a dictionary with that calculator.

You came up with a list of other reasons besides Houston leaving as to why they may struggle - one of those was Wicks leaving.

Correct, congratulations. They do add up Alex, might want to get back to that calculator.

I asked if you thought that the boys would really be more affected by Wicks leaving than Houston. You twisted things around as you do to avoid saying your point was rubbish. Still are apparently.

You really are as thick as they come. Where did I ever say they would be more affected by Wicks than Houston? Where? You said if we struggle at the start of this year it will be all because of Houston's absence:

"You know what will tell whether he is a big loss or not? How the team plays without him in the squad after everything that has happened. If we lose our first 6 games - it doesn't matter how good or bad a player he was...he'll be a big loss purely on the basis of what he has done to the team."

I came up with a whole list of reasons that could also be attributed to why we may struggle at the start of the year. At no point did I say any of them was a bigger factor than the others, so where did you get that from?


I didn't say you suggested I said he was an outstanding leader. All I said was he was a leader of sorts and you went on to question me about it. I think we agree that he wasn't a great leader but he was the best we had at the time.

So he wasn't a great leader, so your point about him being a big loss because of his leadership is really a moot point.

It really doesn't matter why he is a big loss or in what form or level - he'll be a big loss.

Okay Alex. Next time I won't try to elaborate into the future, because clearly you can only deal with the concept of the immediate future.
 

Alex28

Coach
Messages
12,021
Sigh...you really only do see things your way don't you. You agree with the question at hand yet you have to put all these caveats on your response and argue with my reasoning.

It is a simple question mate. Is he a big loss. You have already said yes. I have said yes. You don't agree with why I said yes. I don't care about why you said yes.

I'm willing to bet you voted no yet you have twisted your response to say yes :)
 

Whats Doing

Bench
Messages
2,899
I don't see the issue of Houston as being whether he is smart or intelligent. It is about his values and obviously his values are not high.

The stats provided by Serc show that he will be a big loss for the knights. As I said previously, any replacements we get at this stage of the year won't be in same class.
 

roopy

Referee
Messages
27,980
Sins of the past a roadblock when trying to win the culture war
ROY MASTERS

March 6, 2010
A bad football club culture is a little like pornography - hard to define but once you see it, you know what it is. It can be reflected in something as simple as players arriving at the stadium in an array of club clothing, rather than the team uniform. Often it's revealed in a blame culture. Good clubs never worry who gets the credit. Bad clubs only concern themselves with who takes the blame.
A strong culture takes years to develop, yet it can evaporate overnight. Penrith won a premiership under Phil Gould in 1991, yet disintegrated the following year; the Roosters won in 2002 but coach Ricky Stuart was later sacked and they have had three coaches since.
The final, rapid unravelling of the bonds that tie a club is reminiscent of the passage from Ernest Hemingway's The Sun Also Rises in which Bill asks Mike, the dissolute party animal, how he went broke. ''Two ways,'' said Mike, ''Gradually and then suddenly.''
The Knights have won two premierships (1997, 2001) since their entry into the competition in 1988, a significant achievement considering Cronulla, who joined in 1967, have yet to win one. But they have now lost two key forwards on serious drug charges and face a season challenging for the wooden spoon.
Insiders at the Knights say they were happy to see prop Danny Wicks go but the loss of forward Chris Houston has gutted the club. University-educated, a qualified schoolteacher, a reserve Origin player who had captained the club twice, Houston was seen as a future, long-term leader.
It would be almost impossible to find a player who epitomises the self-sacrificial, gritty ethos on which rugby league is built more than the Knights' current captain, Kurt Gidley, yet he would appear powerless to break an association between drugs and football in Newcastle that goes back 50 years.
In the 1960s, Sydney footballers swore by an old Newcastle wharfie who they would visit when injured. No-one can be certain whether it was his magic hands, or a pill that made greyhounds go faster, but those players travelled back down the Pacific Highway minus the corked thighs, or bruised ribs that seemed certain to rule them out of their next Sydney match.
The perennially cash-strapped Knights have cut corners with qualified training and medical staff and in 1998 three Knights players were handed long suspensions after using banned food supplements.
In 2007, Team of the Century halfback Andrew ''Joey'' Johns was arrested for possession of an ecstasy pill and later admitted on Channel Nine that he had ''run the gauntlet'' at training sessions at Newcastle, hoping to avoid the testers from the Australian Sports Drug Agency.
Towards the end of his career, a ruling by the World Anti Drug Agency meant testing for illicit, ''recreational'' drugs became the responsibility of clubs, not the NRL. Full battery testing is expensive and the Knights were one of only two NRL clubs that did not conduct its own in-house tests. Early in 2008, when the NRL considered a zero-tolerance punishment regime for drug-takers, as opposed to the AFL's liberal three-strikes policy, the Knights voted against it. To be fair, the new administration at the Knights engaged in some rapid catch-up in 2009, with a comprehensive educational campaign against drug use but club culture is hard to change.
Team of the Century coach Jack Gibson, who had been successful at most of the six clubs where he coached, once lamented losing was ''in the woodwork'' at Cronulla. He compared waiting for a Sharks premiership with turning the porch light on for Harold Holt.
He also dubbed the Roosters the ''transit'' lounge in reference to players seeking to drop in at Bondi Junction for big contracts before alighting for a serious career somewhere else. It's a tag that endures. When coach Brad Fittler asked me to speak to his players before a game against Newcastle last year, one of the first questions asked was: how does a club build an identity?
Listening intently and respectfully was forward Willie Mason who has now transferred to the Cowboys, after being courted by Storm coach Craig Bellamy.
Bellamy is convinced the strong Storm culture could have transformed Mason back to one of the game's most dominant players, yet the Roosters suspect he will destabilise the Cowboys.
The Cowboys, established only 15 years ago, have not developed a definable culture. They are capable of self-destructing in a matter of weeks, yet can galvanise within days. Big Willie's influence on their culture will be one of 2010's intriguing stories.
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...ing-to-win-the-culture-war-20100305-porr.html
 

Nuffy

Bench
Messages
4,075
His value is that he's a genuine prospect, (NSW 18th man) who plays big minutes, misses few games through injury and was young with plenty of improvement and years ahead of him.

How many forwards in our squad match that profile.

Make no mistake, we'll miss him.
 

aqua_duck

Coach
Messages
18,648
Houston might be a Uni graduate but he's obviously not a very smart guy because if he's convicted he can kiss his football and teaching career goodbye. If he's wiped out for 4 years, his career is over and with a criminal record I'm pretty sure he won't be able to teach. So for the sake of abit of extra cash on the side he's pretty much ****ed up his life.
Not very smart IMO
 

Bring it home Knights

First Grade
Messages
7,575
Houston might be a Uni graduate but he's obviously not a very smart guy because if he's convicted he can kiss his football and teaching career goodbye. If he's wiped out for 4 years, his career is over and with a criminal record I'm pretty sure he won't be able to teach. So for the sake of abit of extra cash on the side he's pretty much ****ed up his life.
Not very smart IMO

Where do u get 4 years from out of curiosity?

If he is convicted he can kiss teaching goodbye, as well as playing in England. If he cant play in the NRL is he able to play in france like Greg Bird did?
 

Hanscholo

Bench
Messages
4,818
With another off season under his bealt he was going to be a really good player for us. His performances on balance were very good last year. He can play front row, second row. He has a high work rate and is a damaging wide runner. So yea we will miss him, even if its only the time, money and resources we spent on him getting him to that stage.
 

Hanscholo

Bench
Messages
4,818
WADA will ban them worldwide for 4 years if they are found guilty...

Since when does the NRL take its policy from WADA. They have 'banned' many athletes over the years only for a lot of sports to laugh at their jurisdiction, which they have none in this case unless the NRL is run by the AOC these days. I may be wrong, but i thought most sports tried to keep themselves distanced from the rampidly over zealous WADA folk. I dont recall seeing anything that stated the NRL was a signatory to the WADA rules or in any way obliged to follow their lead. Again, i may be wrong but they do tend to talk a big game with nothing whatsoever to back it up.

If Wicks is done, it will be career over...thats from the NRL. Houston im not so certain about, it may well be that its a minor infringement and he has the year off and comes back next season. If it was a minor infringement, a 4 year world wide ban is outrageous and most likely very easily overruled as a restraint of trade, which it most certainly is.
 

Rolla

Juniors
Messages
2,196
With another off season under his bealt he was going to be a really good player for us. His performances on balance were very good last year. He can play front row, second row. He has a high work rate and is a damaging wide runner. So yea we will miss him, even if its only the time, money and resources we spent on him getting him to that stage.

I never saw him as a damaging wide runner. Hits the line softly and can't beat a man or burst out of tackles. He does however run good lines close to the try line
 

Big Tim

First Grade
Messages
6,500
Yes
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