Hovering messages

[CanadianSteve]

<table cellspacing=1 width="100%" border=0> <tbody> <tr> <td align=middle width="100%" bgcolor=#00ccff colspan=6 height=21>The Theory of Evolution vs. Creation Science
Accurate Summary of Each Discipline Position</td></tr> <tr> <td align=middle width="16%" height=66>Scientific
Discipline</td> <td align=middle width="16%" bgcolor=#ffffcc height=66>What the Theory of Evolution Says</td> <td align=middle width="17%" bgcolor=#ffffcc height=66>What Evolutionists Say We Ought to See</td> <td align=middle width="17%" bgcolor=#ffffcc height=66>What We Actually Observe in Nature</td> <td align=middle width="17%" bgcolor=#ffffcc height=66>What Scientists Say</td> <td align=middle width="17%" bgcolor=#ffffcc height=66>Creationist Explanation</td></tr> <tr> <td align=middle width="16%" height=19></td> <td align=middle width="16%" height=19></td> <td align=middle width="17%" height=19></td> <td align=middle width="17%" height=19></td> <td align=middle width="17%" height=19></td> <td align=middle width="17%" height=19></td></tr> <tr> <td align=middle width="16%" bgcolor=#00ccff height=21>Astronomy
click here</td> <td align=middle width="16%" bgcolor=#00ccff height=21>Geology
click here</td> <td align=middle width="17%" bgcolor=#00ccff height=21>Paleontology
click here</td> <td align=middle width="17%" bgcolor=#00ccff height=21>Genetics
click here</td> <td align=middle width="17%" bgcolor=#00ccff height=21>Biochemistry
click here</td> <td align=middle width="17%" bgcolor=#00ccff height=21>Mathematics
click here</td></tr> <tr> <td align=middle width="16%" height=21>The study of stars, planets, and other heavenly bodies, and their physical properties.</td> <td align=middle width="16%" height=21>The study of the earth's physical nature and properties.</td> <td align=middle width="17%" height=21>The study of fossils, the hardened remains of prehistoric animals and plants.</td> <td align=middle width="17%" height=21>The study of heredity and variation in related animals and plants.</td> <td align=middle width="17%" height=21>The study of chemical process occurring in living plants and animals.</td> <td align=middle width="17%" height=21>The use of numbers, symbols and equations to study quantities and their relationships.</td></tr> <tr> <td align=middle width="16%" height=128>

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[Willow]

Perhaps we should just leave the Calvanists alone so they can agree with each other... I said 'perhaps'....

"Imagine putting the pieces of a million fine wrist watches in a paper bag (a big bag). Now shake this bag for 6 billion years and expect the watches to be running and on perfect time when you are finished. Preposterous, isn't it? "

The only preposterous thing is the analogy.

There are billions of suns and within that, billions upon billions of probabilities. To create a single God is simplifying things to the extreme.

Creationism is no different from the Gods that the Aztecs and their ancestors worshipped... and they were wiped out by Catholics because they were considered to be heathens... oh, that and the fact that the natives had access to loads of Gold.

The Aztecs, like modern creationsists, explained things by saying there were divine beings. You can call it, 'The Theory of Intelligent Design ' and so on... but at the end of the day, its still just atheory based on religion.
Its no different from any other religion (including the ones destroyed in the name of christianity) when coming to grips with day to day events.

 

[Cronulla_Mania]

Mate, i think its ridiculous to compare the activities of religious fanatics from thousands of years ago with those of today. Sure, the catholic religion had some extreme beliefs/ideas at that time, but who didn't?? Its a bit harsh to single out the idea of one group from the time.

If you look throughout history, the Romans used to give a full pardon to one criminal each year, regardless of there record. Remember Pontus Pilate?

It was only a few centuries ago that we thought the world was flat. It was only a couple of hundred years ago that we used to think that the sun revolved around the Earth. It took us a bloody long time to discover the law of gravity!

The trial by ordeal system in medievil England used to suggest that if a person drowned when they were tied up (or something to that extent), they were innocent, but if they survived they were guilty.

Come on, history is littered with examples of things that we would now find stupid and proposterous. The ideas of christianity are far different from the ideas that they had 2000 years ago. Some fundamental beliefs remain, but a lot has changed. Id say that it is because of things being reinterpreted, others would say re-creating history. Depends what side of the fence you sit on mate

Moffo

 

[imported_Rasputin]

"The theory that life began in the slime has been proven scientifically impossible"
LOL, when was this proven andby who? It would have been nice of them to seperate fact from thier own personal opinion, but I guess that would've ruined the whole story.

"universe came about by a "Big Bang," a feat that is statistically impossible without "Intelligent Design" as part of the equation."
No offence guys but that has to bethe funniest thing I have ever read. Are they telling us they actually formulatedthe equation for thebig bang and havethe statistical data to prove it.

Perhaps we should just leave the Calvanists alone so they can agree with each other
I think you may be right there Willow,while not knocking anyones religionthose articlesmerely present the writers view by way ofsupposition. Good luck to them if that's what they want to believeand they are certainly entitled to present their point of view, but that's all those articles are, an individual opinion based on supposition with noscientific foundation whatsoever.

 

[Edwahu]

Firstly, Evolution is a scientific model that extends well beyond darwinism. Secondly a theory is not a hypothesis. The two are often confused by the general public.
Thirdly, "Creation science" is not a plausible idea in its common form. Because it relys ona divine forcethat cannot be proven tonot exist,it is totally unscientific.

Hereare a fewofgood sites debunking many of the criticisms of evolution by creationists.
http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-creationists.html
http://vuletic.com/hume/cefec/4.html
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/abioprob/abioprob.html

The last one deals with the ideaof life "appearing from slime" as mentioned above. The science of the biological origins of life is called "abiogenesis" and is far more complex then the creationists demonstrate.
This diagram gives some idea of the differences in interpretation of this theory.

 

[imported_Rasputin]

It was only a few centuries ago that we thought the world was flat. It was only a couple of hundred years ago that we used to think that the sun revolved around the Earth. It took us a bloody long time to discover the law of gravity!

LOL Moff,and some truths will take even longer to learn

 

[Cronulla_Mania]

lol, its funny how many 'evolutionists' (well Willow anyway) consider the idea of God to be an oversimplification, yet so many are willing to place some credence in a 'Big Bang' theory as to how the world begun....

lol, the big bang, it explains everything

Moffo

 

[Edwahu]

I just wanted to say, I am not having a go at anyones religious beliefs either.

However there is a push in some areas of the US to havethe teaching of the evolution model barred from schools and a quasi-scientific version of creationism replace it, which is not something I am a big fan of.

 

[Cronulla_Mania]

lol, ok then, so 'science' gives an explanation to everything, yet it cannot explain how the world begun (i know we had this argument yesterday, but i still cannot fathom there not being a point where things begun).

Geez, im off to invest to invest my money and my soul into Science!

Moffo

 

[imported_Rasputin]

lol, ok then, so 'science' gives an explanation to everything, yet it cannot explain how the world begun
There is actually a very extensive explanation of it Moff.


but i still cannot fathom there not being a point where things begun).
Hahaha,oops, then when and how was God created

 

[Cronulla_Mania]

Wait, wait, hold on...but Willow just finished telling me that "There are billions of suns and within that, billions upon billions of probabilities"

So, what probability am i meant to believe?? Are you a big bang believer??

God wasn't created, thats thewhole point of it. The creator cannot be created God is the top of the food chain so to speak.

Moffo

 

[Edwahu]

Since whenwas Sciencesupposedto be able to explain everything?
Just because it cant doesnt mean we can make things up to fill in the gaps.

Also, in terms of the Big Bang, from what I understandyou have to remember that time didnt exist prior to it taking place, so as hard as it is to fathom, saying that it "happened" is adding a dimension to it that didnt exist.

My personal hypothesis is that because I have such a hard time comprehending "nothing" is thatat everything has happened, is happening and will happen at some stage so everyone ir right. The major hole in myhypothesis is that Icant comprehendCronulla ever winning a comp.

 

[Cronulla_Mania]

But its also convenient for scientists to disregard the concept of time when talking about the big bang theory, wouldn't u say??

Moffo

 

[imported_Rasputin]

God wasn't created, thats thewhole point of it. The creator cannot be created God is the top of the food chain so to speak.
LOL Moff, you were the one with the contradiction, if you believe the above then please explain your previousstatement of"i still cannot fathom there not being a point where things begun" Either explain the contradiction or tell mewhenGod begun

Are you a big bang believer??
Yes.

 

[Willow]

Moffo: I'm not sure what Pontius Pilate has to with anything. Letting one murderer loose on the streets every year, at the whim of a mob, is hardly a top notch system. lol... mind you its not much worst than what we have now.

Anyway mate, I'm not singling out one group of fanatics ie the Spansiards in Central America.

If you read what I said,I was referring to the apparent indifference that Christian belief has towards other faiths that are fundamentally believing in the same thing, that being a divine all seeing, all powerful being.

I was saying that is christianity (and islam for that matter, both believe in the same God) are really no different from Aztec or Greek religious beliefs (called 'mythology' today) when coming to terms with natural science.

 

[Cronulla_Mania]

Can u simplify the big bang theory into less than 100 words for a simpleton like us religious folk then?? j/k

OK, ill explain the contradiction. The point where things begun was with God. That was the beginning. God created the world, things went on from there. As i said before, God was the creator.

There is NO point where things begun under the evolution theory. Or, if as u say, the big bang theory is the explanation, than id like to hear it

OK, team lineups for believing in God v believing in other things. Correct me if im wrong, but its looking a little something like this so far....hehe (i got to relate these things back to footy, so i can continue to comprehend this warped topic).

Team God - Moffo, Canadian Steve, Legend, Hass (I think)

Team Evo - Rasputin, Willow, Bronco, El Duque, Edwahu

Yeh??

Moffo

 

[Cronulla_Mania]

Fair enough Willow mate, it just seemed that u were leaning towards singling out the activities of Christians in the past. Agreed, they did a lot of evil/abhorrent things, but they are little different to most other groups throughout history.

They all believe in 'a' God, the idea is the same. Its just that who they think that is changes. Like the Greek religion, who believe in many Gods.

Moffo

 

[Willow]

Ok Moff... so why is Greek Religion considered mythology when Christianity and Islam are considered otherwise?

 

[Cronulla_Mania]

to the christians (which is the main religious denomination in Australia) it is viewed as a myth. Thats why its always been taught that way (not saying i necessarily agree with that). Its more a traditional believe id assume.

Im sure the Greeks dont view their religion as Mythology!

Moffo

 

[imported_Rasputin]

Can u simplify the big bang theory into less than 100 words for a simpleton like us religious folk then

LOL, not really Moff but in general the big bang was created by a singularity event, not a one off as singularities still exist. A singularity event is something that occurs or existsoutside the known laws of the universe. To understand the laws of the universeyou needto research Einstein’s theory of relativity, excluding his adjustments, which is built on &lt;?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comsmarttags" />&lt;st1:City>&lt;st1lace>Newtons&lt;/st1lace>&lt;/st1:City> laws of gravity. In 1917 Einstein developed his theory but in 1921 or thereabouts adjusted it because he couldn't believe in the big bang principle which other scientists formed based on the hypothesis that the universe was still growing. Later in the 1930's, after Hubble’s discovery, he had to recant because it was proven that the universe is indeed growing and expanding exponentially. Under the laws of the universe, theory of relativity/gravitational fields of balance, it can’t be expanding unless it originally started its movement from a single central point, ie big bang. Expansion can’t continue for an indefinite time without contraction back to that single point. There is nothing unique in that theory as it is recurring constantly with every single star in the universe where they all burn and expand to a point upon which they contract and implode. The explanation of the life of the big bang is no different to the life of stars, they form, expand, contract and implode, there is nothing unique about it other than the scale of it. Generally speaking, without delving further into quantum physics, on the other end of the scale the exact same thing occurs within atomic structures, the principle is the same only the scale is different. What happens with stars happens with the universe. A very well accepted hypothesis is that there are far more than just one universe.
Hmm, how many words was that.

There is NO point where things begun under the evolution theory.
LOL, yes there is, the big bang. Some believe a singularity always existed others belive a God always existed, choose whichever you like, in the end it will make no difference other than to comfort you.