hungry jacks quad stack

[chileman]

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, whoppers

 

[Martli]

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, whoppers

Cant' argue with that.

 

[Maxem]

Dude, you just said the same thing twice, only the second one was a little fleshed out. You can pretty much use the same argument for any product, any commodity. The problems start to arise when things starts to get over the top when a groups choice becomes too much of a burden. I have been arguing this point the whole time. Choice is fine, choice is good, but it gets to a point where we can't make a choice because society has to make up for the bad choices of everyone else, and I don't want that.

As it stands, this burger is barely a blip on the radar, but I think it's symptomatic of a wider problem that has a lot of potential. This is pretty much what I'm arguing for, the burger is just the platform.

Martli, you are stating that sometimes peoples freedom to make their own life choice isn't a good idea. However, how do you think we should even begin to regulate this? You are practically arguing for the removal of all fast food and unhealthy eating chains. We either have them there, where people have the freedom to buy what they want, or, as you are implying, remove the choice all together, which would mean removing hungry jacks, and any other chain that may make people obese.

Just the way we have dealt with drugs, they are a huge burdon on society, and we end up paying for the problems they cause. So they are illegal.

Are you saying we should make burgers illegal? Or are you dreaming of some middle ground that will never happen?

 

[Martli]

Martli, you are stating that sometimes peoples freedom to make their own life choice isn't a good idea. However, how do you think we should even begin to regulate this? You are practically arguing for the removal of all fast food and unhealthy eating chains. We either have them there, where people have the freedom to buy what they want, or, as you are implying, remove the choice all together, which would mean removing hungry jacks, and any other chain that may make people obese.

Just the way we have dealt with drugs, they are a huge burdon on society, and we end up paying for the problems they cause. So they are illegal.

Are you saying we should make burgers illegal? Or are you dreaming of some middle ground that will never happen?

That's a false dichotomy, you can't just assume it's an all or nothing situation. Take a look at smoking, smoking rates have decreased a lot over the past decade or so, it was pretty common for a while until it started doing serious damage. My guess is fast food will go through similar motions, and possibly take on some form of government regulation. Fast food as it is now is pretty new (compared to say, 60s, 70s) and I think once people see the damage it's doing it'll fall down a bit. You're right in that I really haven't offered any real alternative yet, no way can you just go ban fast food all together, that's completely ridiculous, we need an idea from someone much more creative than I am. All I'm saying is that it's a problem that needs to be dealt with before it gets to the stage that drugs got to.

 

[Maxem]

That's a false dichotomy, you can't just assume it's an all or nothing situation. Take a look at smoking, smoking rates have decreased a lot over the past decade or so, it was pretty common for a while until it started doing serious damage. My guess is fast food will go through similar motions, and possibly take on some form of government regulation. Fast food as it is now is pretty new (compared to say, 60s, 70s) and I think once people see the damage it's doing it'll fall down a bit. You're right in that I really haven't offered any real alternative yet, no way can you just go ban fast food all together, that's completely ridiculous, we need an idea from someone much more creative than I am. All I'm saying is that it's a problem that needs to be dealt with before it gets to the stage that drugs got to.

Smoking is a completely different situation. Apples and oranges. That was regulated because it was doing direct damage to people that made the choice not to smoke. Hence, it was banned in confined populated places, like bars and restaurants.

I am completely against the government telling people what they can and can't eat. I mean, I already strongly disagree with them telling us what we can and can't watch, what we can and can't play, but eating? That is a step too far. And a step that would do far more damage to society and freedom than obesity.

The only way this should be approached, is better education, and more parent involvment. It should never be regulated. You just cannot effectivly do it. Freedom is expensive. Obesity is a result of our freedom. But it is one of the small negatives, over shadowed by a mountain of postives.

Would you rather pay higher taxes for the free life you live? Or lower taxes, and have more of your choices made for you?

 

[Monk]

not sure whether i could last it all

but i'd probably try it once in the future... dont wanna die wondering

a double quarter pounder from Maccas makes me feel sick

i just stay away from maccas and HJ fullstop, the sh*t they serve their is unsavoury. although the chicken at maccas is half good. i swear my chicken burger had sour cream on it though.

 

[Martli]

Smoking is a completely different situation. Apples and oranges. That was regulated because it was doing direct damage to people that made the choice not to smoke. Hence, it was banned in confined populated places, like bars and restaurants.

I am completely against the government telling people what they can and can't eat. I mean, I already strongly disagree with them telling us what we can and can't watch, what we can and can't play, but eating? That is a step too far. And a step that would do far more damage to society and freedom than obesity.

The only way this should be approached, is better education, and more parent involvment. It should never be regulated. You just cannot effectivly do it. Freedom is expensive. Obesity is a result of our freedom. But it is one of the small negatives, over shadowed by a mountain of postives.

Would you rather pay higher taxes for the free life you live? Or lower taxes, and have more of your choices made for you?

Don't get me wrong, I value freedom, I'm all for individual choice. All I'm saying, and all I have been saying since I started, is that I don't want my freedom infringed upon by people who choose to overeat and f**k sh*t up for society. A country with an obesity rate of 25% is not acceptable and something needs to be done before this 25% becomes dependant on the 75% who aren't obese. If this requires some regulation, so be it, I'd rather it didn't, but as a last measure it could be necessary. If education can fix it, great, bring it on; we need to attack the root of the problem first and this is probably more affective than any sort of regulation. Is this new burger from burger king helping the cause? No, it's not.

I'm not trying to wipe out obesity completely, but I think 25% is way too high to just label it a negative by-product of freedom and be on our merry way. Individuals still exist within a society, and the health of this society has an impact on the individual's freedom. It's give and take.

 

[Mr Angry]

I hate fat merkins.

But freedom is freedom to make bad choices.

It is thier choice to shorten thier lives.

 

[Maxem]

Don't get me wrong, I value freedom, I'm all for individual choice. All I'm saying, and all I have been saying since I started, is that I don't want my freedom infringed upon by people who choose to overeat and f**k sh*t up for society. A country with an obesity rate of 25% is not acceptable and something needs to be done before this 25% becomes dependant on the 75% who aren't obese. If this requires some regulation, so be it, I'd rather it didn't, but as a last measure it could be necessary. If education can fix it, great, bring it on; we need to attack the root of the problem first and this is probably more affective than any sort of regulation. Is this new burger from burger king helping the cause? No, it's not.

I'm not trying to wipe out obesity completely, but I think 25% is way too high to just label it a negative by-product of freedom and be on our merry way. Individuals still exist within a society, and the health of this society has an impact on the individual's freedom. It's give and take.

You say you don't want your freedom infinged apon? That is exactly what regulation is! You think that they will only regulate the over weight? They cannot and will not do that.
This new burger is not helping obesity, granted, but it is what a free society is, they present a burger. We eat it or we don't. The ones that eat too many certainly are costing us money, but then so are people with HIV's, so are people who break their leg climbing, so are people who drive everyday, so are people who don't install smoke alarms, where do you draw the line? who decides what costs us too much and what doesn't? if we let them regulate this then it will snowball. it will get worse and worse.

People who get told what to eat and what to do are in prison. You are proposing a step that will put everyone who is 'free' one step closer to that.

 

[Frederick]

Don't go to HJ's all that often but will prolly give one of these a go next time I'm there

 

[Johns Magic]

Yeah I actually feel like one now

 

[kia ora storm]

Might have one for breakfast...;-)

 

[Martli]

You say you don't want your freedom infinged apon? That is exactly what regulation is! You think that they will only regulate the over weight? They cannot and will not do that.
This new burger is not helping obesity, granted, but it is what a free society is, they present a burger. We eat it or we don't. The ones that eat too many certainly are costing us money, but then so are people with HIV's, so are people who break their leg climbing, so are people who drive everyday, so are people who don't install smoke alarms, where do you draw the line? who decides what costs us too much and what doesn't? if we let them regulate this then it will snowball. it will get worse and worse.

People who get told what to eat and what to do are in prison. You are proposing a step that will put everyone who is 'free' one step closer to that.

You completely miss my point because you're only looking at it in immediate terms. Let me just make this point a little more clear: I advocate regulation as a very last resort. Read my previous post again, don't use straw-man arguments on me.

My point this whole time has been this: When individual freedom becomes impacted upon by individual's choices in a significant way, that is where we draw the line. A 25% rate of obesity is well on the way to causing a significant impact, it needs to be lowered now before our freedom is infringed upon by regulation or a 50% obesity rate. My initial point, and the whole thing that started this debate, was that actions like this get us closer to drawing that line. I don't want obesity to get to a point where it starts to have a significant impact on society, that has been my point this whole time.

 

[Twizzle]

sometimes logical arguments dont work here Martli

 

[Martli]

sometimes logical arguments dont work here Martli

I think you misspelled "all the time".

 

[madunit]

Corporations are a part of wider society. A society that relies on healthy members and efficient allocation of scares resources. They contribute (ie aren't solely responsible for) to bloating the system through exploiting over-eaters.

In all honesty, I would probably eat this burger. I'm more or less having this argument for the sake of arguing, rather than being really passionate about the cause. I do think obesity is a problem and I do think this sort of sh*t makes it worse, but not nearly as much as I am making it out to be. Let the debate roll.

Let me put this to you.

Whose fault is it:

a) The fat blob who opts against a healthy diet and lifestyle in the first place who subjects themselves to eating this sh*t
b) The fast food company who advertises this product ad naseum
c) The health food alternatives and exercise machines/gyms etc that don't advertise enough, or make their product as affordable as the fast food?

Who is at fault here for the fat person getting fat?

 

[Martli]

Do we have to go down this road again? Pretty much everyone in this thread is saying that very same thing, but failing to extrapolate the consequences further than an individual's choice. I've stated that it's mostly the person who eats it, but there's a bit of coercion on the part of the fast-food companies. They see a weakness in us and use it to make money, that's part of it. Of course it's the individual's ultimate fault, but I've shown about 10 times now that if it gets out of hand, the rest of us have to pay for it. No one cares about it because all they're saying is "It's the individual's choice!!!"

If it was a simple matter of someone doing something to themselves with absolutely no consequences for the rest of us, then it's a complete non-issue.

If it was a simple matter of a few people doing something to themselves with minor consequences for the rest of us, then it's a complete non-issue.

It's the potential for this to become an issue where we WILL have to pay for their bad choice that concerns me.

 

[madunit]

The problem is too many people begin to rely on fast food as its so easy to get, and start consumin 10 of those a week. Then we get to be like the USA with the fattest population in the world, and more money is needed to help fix their health problems.

We don't need a nation of fatties who can't walk out of the door like in the US. Then we're paying them welfare through higher taxes

This is exactly why we have private health options available in this country.

While I understand Martli's and furry's sentiments, at the end of the day you as a human are responsible for what you eat. No one is being forced to eat this burger. Even if this burger hadn't been created there'd still be fat people.

Illegal drugs can have an effect not just on the user but many other people. They affect a personality, attitude etc of a person more extremely and quickly than becoming overweight ever will.

And I dare say the strain on the health department by both obesity and drug related illnesses etc are going to be very similar, the major difference being, it's a hell of a lot cheaper and easier to get people to lose weight then it is to get drug addicts off heroin. So personally I don't believe that obesity puts that great a strain on the health department.

All solutions being put forward by governments are backwards. They aren't working on reversing the trend, they are only working on slowing the trend of obesity.

They need to make healthy food alternatives as cost effective as fast food, and as readily and easily available.

They need to make gym memberships more affordable etc

If you are a slightly overweight person and you have 5 bucks in your pocket, are you going to walk half a block to a supermarket to buy a muesli bar, or are you going to stop at one of the trillion fast food places and get some fat burger.

That's your problem. It's not just the availability and the alleged taste of this stuff, it's the fact that it is actually cheaper than a 100% fruit smoothie.

 

[madunit]

Do we have to go down this road again? Pretty much everyone in this thread is saying that very same thing, but failing to extrapolate the consequences further than an individual's choice. I've stated that it's mostly the person who eats it, but there's a bit of coercion on the part of the fast-food companies. They see a weakness in us and use it to make money, that's part of it.

Mate that's marketing, every company does the same thing to some extent. They market to your prejudices. How else do they sell stuff?

Of course it's the individual's ultimate fault, but I've shown about 10 times now that if it gets out of hand, the rest of us have to pay for it. No one cares about it because all they're saying is "It's the individual's choice!!!"

The total cost on each Australian is very minimal in comparison with drug related illnesses, mental illness etc, which require more time, unresponsive or unco-operative patients and very expensive medications/treatments.

Obesity can be reversed through exercise and good diet which the patient pays for through their groceries, gym memberships, dieticians etc, all outside the health department, none funded by tax payers.

If it was a simple matter of someone doing something to themselves with absolutely no consequences for the rest of us, then it's a complete non-issue.

It is a complete non-issue.

If it was a simple matter of a few people doing something to themselves with minor consequences for the rest of us, then it's a complete non-issue.

It is a complete non-issue. Fat people know they are fat. They know they need to change their diet if they wish to not be fat. They are of sound stable mind and have no excuse not to change their eating and exercising habits.

It's the potential for this to become an issue where we WILL have to pay for their bad choice that concerns me.

Why does this one burger all of a sudden pose a greater concern when fast food places and hamburgers/pizzas etc have been selling in the multi trillions every year for many decades now?

It's a non-issue.

 

[Martli]

Mate that's marketing, every company does the same thing to some extent. They market to your prejudices. How else do they sell stuff? The total cost on each Australian is very minimal in comparison with drug related illnesses, mental illness etc, which require more time, unresponsive or unco-operative patients and very expensive medications/treatments.

But it's the potential for this to get big that worries me, and these marketing strategies don't help.

Obesity can be reversed through exercise and good diet which the patient pays for through their groceries, gym memberships, dieticians etc, all outside the health department, none funded by tax payers.

Of course, but 25% of my country are still obese because it's easier for them to not do this. I don't want this figure to grow.

Why does this one burger all of a sudden pose a greater concern when fast food places and hamburgers/pizzas etc have been selling in the multi trillions every year for many decades now?

It's a non-issue.

It doesn't, I've said it's a small step, "barely a blip on the radar" and so on. I'm just using it as a platform to have a debate about the wider issue.