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Hypothetical blame.

Mr Angry

Not a Referee
Messages
51,811
he has already played a few minutes with the problem not having been corrected.

who would have been at fault had there been a further knock?
 

woodyk2

First Grade
Messages
7,032
Bush lawyer here.
As it is an injury - as I see it, this is how it goes.
1) There has to be an assessment, followed by a diagnosis.
2) From that diagnosis, a treatment plan is set in place. The plan covers the treatment and recovery period, and activities that are allowed or not allowed during that time. The treating doctor has a legal right, and obligation, to authorise the prevention of activity that will jeapoardise the recovery process. It is not enforceable by law, but will rule any compensation null and void, and exposes anyone who contravened that authority to liability.

In other words, Doc makes an assessment, and a judgement on wether he can or cannot do stuff. He cannot say "Normally you would have to ly flat on your back for 3 months, but since you are Arthur Neddy Smith you can go and play golf tomorrow if you want".

Joey got a medical clearance. It was the manly doctor, Nathan Gibbs, who made all the fuss. As for Sattler, there was no risk of complications, except him losing teeth, but that was normal with Souffs anyway.

No. They act on medical advice.
Given that he is retiring and at worst he will miss one game, no.
No such coverage exists. But they are not liable for someone being a d*ckhead and ignoring their doctor.

If The Doctor says he can play, when we is unfit, the doctor is liable

If the doctor says he cannot play, and he lies to the club and said that he can, he is liable

If the doctor says he cannot play, but the club in any way co-erces him into making the decision to play, the club is liable.
yep
 

ceagle

Bench
Messages
4,853
I just re-watched the last 17 minutes of Saturday's game. Gee did he hide behind all of his players, I think he only made 1 tackle in that time period and it was a very hesitant one at that. I'm surprised the Dragons didn't target him at all.
 

Loudstrat

Coach
Messages
15,224
I think this is an orchestrated stunt.

I dunno wether Heather will or wont play, but more importantly neither do Manly. It's like when Langer had his last origin. Qld set up such a smokescreen that NSW dodnt know how to react. Manly's silence on the issue maybe suggests that the ploy is working.

If I was a Manly fan, I would love to see this on a press release......
"Manly coach Des Hasler today said that they didnt care whether Darren Lockyer, Michael Gillette or f*cking Joan of Arc played 5/8 for the Broncos on the weekend, because Manly will smash the merkins anyway."
 

lynx000

Juniors
Messages
1,388
Truely, If I was Locky, I wouldn't play. I'd like to remember my last game being the hero at my home ground then remember my last being a liability to my teammates and have to go off after 30 minutes.

He will play if he thinks he can play without letting down the team, that will be the only consideration.

And for all of you bush lawyers, if he has taken appropriate medical advice and that medical advice was that he should not play, and he makes a considered decision to play and suffers injury within the scope of the medical advice he was provided, he will find it very, very difficult to maintain any sort of action against any of the doctors.

Re the club as his employer, once again, if they place no pressure on him, they discuss all the pros and cons with him and warn him that he should not play and he makes a considered decision to play, he will also have difficulties succeeding against the club.

He will have voluntarily assumed the risk of any injury occurring in those circumstances.

The Civil Liability Act in Qld includes this little gem:-

14 Persons suffering harm presumed to be aware of obvious
risks​
(1) If, in an action for damages for breach of duty causing harm, a
defence of voluntary assumption of risk is raised by the
defendant and the risk is an obvious risk, the plaintiff is taken
to have been aware of the risk unless the plaintiff proves, on
the balance of probabilities, that he or she was not aware of
the risk.​
(2) For this section, a person is aware of a risk if the person is
aware of the type or kind of risk, even if the person is not
aware of the precise nature, extent or manner of occurrence of​
the risk.


Re your suggestion Loudy, the NRL would have no power or jurisdiction to interfere (in my view) in a decision made between the player and the club, and a representative from the NRL has come out and said as much. How could they rule him out without any medical evidence, and where do they have the power to have him medically examined? Different scenario whent it comes time for medicals for the australian side.
 

AlwaysGreen

Immortal
Messages
49,186
I think this is an orchestrated stunt.

I dunno wether Heather will or wont play, but more importantly neither do Manly. It's like when Langer had his last origin. Qld set up such a smokescreen that NSW dodnt know how to react. Manly's silence on the issue maybe suggests that the ploy is working.

If I was a Manly fan, I would love to see this on a press release......
"Manly coach Des Hasler today said that they didnt care whether Darren Lockyer, Michael Gillette or f*cking Joan of Arc played 5/8 for the Broncos on the weekend, because Manly will smash the merkins anyway."

The only press release Manly will give is one where Desiree Hasler demands an apology from the NRL for Brisbane trying to take underdog status.
 

_Johnsy

Referee
Messages
27,655
As an adult making an informed decision, the responsibility lies entirely on Locky's shoulders, no-one else's.

The only real reason he would want to pay (considering the serious permanent risk to his health) is that he actually enjoys the media circus, and the headlines that follow.

No other explanation TBH.
 
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woodyk2

First Grade
Messages
7,032
He will play if he thinks he can play without letting down the team, that will be the only consideration.

And for all of you bush lawyers, if he has taken appropriate medical advice and that medical advice was that he should not play, and he makes a considered decision to play and suffers injury within the scope of the medical advice he was provided, he will find it very, very difficult to maintain any sort of action against any of the doctors.

Re the club as his employer, once again, if they place no pressure on him, they discuss all the pros and cons with him and warn him that he should not play and he makes a considered decision to play, he will also have difficulties succeeding against the club.

He will have voluntarily assumed the risk of any injury occurring in those circumstances.

The Civil Liability Act in Qld includes this little gem:-

14 Persons suffering harm presumed to be aware of obvious
risks
(1) If, in an action for damages for breach of duty causing harm, a
defence of voluntary assumption of risk is raised by the
defendant and the risk is an obvious risk, the plaintiff is taken
to have been aware of the risk unless the plaintiff proves, on
the balance of probabilities, that he or she was not aware of
the risk.
(2) For this section, a person is aware of a risk if the person is
aware of the type or kind of risk, even if the person is not
aware of the precise nature, extent or manner of occurrence of
the risk.


Re your suggestion Loudy, the NRL would have no power or jurisdiction to interfere (in my view) in a decision made between the player and the club, and a representative from the NRL has come out and said as much. How could they rule him out without any medical evidence, and where do they have the power to have him medically examined? Different scenario whent it comes time for medicals for the australian side.
nice
 

Loudstrat

Coach
Messages
15,224
The medical evidence was pretty much there in the doctors statement to the media when he said normally it's 6-8 weeks, but it's up to Lockyer.

It is NEVER up to the patient.

And the Broncos dont have to pick him either.

Would the QLD civil liability act cover a game in Sydney? Anyway, if Lockyer doesnt sue for damages - which would be very very unlikely - this is all moot point. However, isa member of his family sued - say the freak accident happens, he loses his eyesight and his missus goes apesh*t.......

This is why medical certificates are enforceable, and employers wont touch people who are unfit for work.
 

blaza88z

Coach
Messages
15,138
Lockyer came out today and said the entire responsibility is on his shoulders so even if he did sue anyone, they'd only have to pull out that media conference..
 

_Johnsy

Referee
Messages
27,655
I wonder if he is constantly targeted for every minute of the 80 (High balls when he is trying to hide in defence, running forwards in numbers at him at every opportunity etc), would the bronc fans be fine with this ?
 

loveleague

Juniors
Messages
35
The guy just broke his jaw and it's a major semifinal, It's a no brainer, he shouldn't play and the club shouldn't let him. Seeing players completely knocked out in the regular season - stumbling around and then playing the duration of the game - nothing surprises me. The status of the player and his reputation/legacy is inconsequential. The club doctor should have the final say - without club coercion.
 
Messages
3,700
Personally, I don't think the decision should be left with Lockyer. If the advice of the surgeon is against him playing he shouldn't. If the advice of the surgeon is that it is ok as long as he is informed of the risk then it's up to him.

I think the bigger picture needs to be considered. He is already a legend to many including many kids and has nothing to prove. We know he has guts and maybe it would take more guts to not take the field and set an example that health is beyond playing a game - assuming the advice is not to play. I'd think that if you expected your child to take the field a week after surgery against medical advice you'd have a serious issue.
 

HowHigh

Coach
Messages
12,819
Manly have every right to target him, as long as its within the laws of the game
Don't want a Matai high shot on him.....save that for hodges
 

AlwaysGreen

Immortal
Messages
49,186
If he is targeted, and I'm not talking head shots or that sort of thing, more the odd facial while he's been tackled etc is he fair game?

I say yes.

One of the great things about rugby league is its ruthfulness. Lockyer as well as anyone would know that if you spot a player with weakness you exploit it. It may not cause damage to Lockyer but the odd sly one to the injury would cause pain and may put him off his game.
 

ceagle

Bench
Messages
4,853
Apparently Lockyer is flying to Sydney in a helicopter. HAHAHAHA. Someone turn this into a f**ken movie
 
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