I will not be silent about this

[gyallop]

It was the best I could do with a stupid statement!

Please state the link to Australia by birth or parentage for every player in the squad.

Mark Offerdahl is not a legit American?

It seems as usual when challenged you want to qualify an absolute statement to justify the statement. tell me based in your view how an American citizen , son of a vet and currently playing in the USA isnt American enough to represent his country.

 

[YANTO]

http://mancave.cbslocal.com/2013/11/05/go-tomahawks-americas-rugby-league-team-bucks-odds/

 

[Evil Homer]

It was the best I could do with a stupid statement!

Please state the link to Australia by birth or parentage for every player in the squad.

Mark Offerdahl is not a legit American?

It seems as usual when challenged you want to qualify an absolute statement to justify the statement. tell me based in your view how an American citizen , son of a vet and currently playing in the USA isnt American enough to represent his country.

Offerdahl was born and raised in Australia and is a former NRL junior, but that's not the point. He's doing a great job representing the USA and nobody is questioning his or anyone else's right to do that. What's being questioned is the lack of any players without some sort of link to Australia. AFAIK the only American player (not American-Australian) is Garvey, who currently plays in Australia. Apart from Garvey, all the players in the USA squad first played RL outside of the US. It's essentially a foreign squad and sends the message to domestic players that no matter how well they perform, they will be overlooked if they aren't Australian.

Nobody is saying that the current players don't deserve to represent the USA, only that the selection of an entire squad of heritage/residency players does nothing for domestic development. And I'm fully aware of the need for heritage players and a strong team, but there are two vacant spots in the squad that could have been taken by domestic USA players. They could have had a run-out against Scotland tomorrow and everyone would be a winner, and it would be a huge boost for the sport in the USA. Instead we have a team doing well while everyone in the USA is left bitter and disillusioned. It's a huge missed opportunity.

 

[byrner]

Offerdahl was born and raised in Australia and is a former NRL junior, but that's not the point. He's doing a great job representing the USA and nobody is questioning his or anyone else's right to do that. What's being questioned is the lack of any players without some sort of link to Australia. AFAIK the only American player (not American-Australian) is Garvey, who currently plays in Australia. Apart from Garvey, all the players in the USA squad first played RL outside of the US. It's essentially a foreign squad and sends the message to domestic players that no matter how well they perform, they will be overlooked if they aren't Australian.

Nobody is saying that the current players don't deserve to represent the USA, only that the selection of an entire squad of heritage/residency players does nothing for domestic development. And I'm fully aware of the need for heritage players and a strong team, but there are two vacant spots in the squad that could have been taken by domestic USA players. They could have had a run-out against Scotland tomorrow and everyone would be a winner, and it would be a huge boost for the sport in the USA. Instead we have a team doing well while everyone in the USA is left bitter and disillusioned. It's a huge missed opportunity.

Nobody? Are you sue? It sounds to me like a lot of people are saying that.

 

[byrner]

Can someone name who 'should' have been picked in the side and wasnt. And then who they should have been picked over.

Lets get into specifics.

 

[Evil Homer]

Nobody? Are you sue? It sounds to me like a lot of people are saying that.

No surprise that the AMNRL sympathizers would completely fail to acknowledge the argument and instead try to change the subject or twist comments about the running of the sport into personal attacks or insults.

Would it or would it not have been better for everyone concerned if the USA WC squad included a few American players from the domestic comp? They wouldn't have to be picked over anyone since there are two vacant spots. It would have been of no detriment to anyone, and would have avoided all of these problems.

 

[Bronco Rob]

http://mancave.cbslocal.com/2013/11/05/go-tomahawks-americas-rugby-league-team-bucks-odds/

Great to see some press about the side but I was disappointed in the negative comments. I suppose some might still be upset given the ironic position of the AMNRL's stance of only picking players who were loyal to the AMNRL who were then overlooked anyway.

Offerdahl was born and raised in Australia and is a former NRL junior, but that's not the point. He's doing a great job representing the USA and nobody is questioning his or anyone else's right to do that. What's being questioned is the lack of any players without some sort of link to Australia. AFAIK the only American player (not American-Australian) is Garvey, who currently plays in Australia. Apart from Garvey, all the players in the USA squad first played RL outside of the US. It's essentially a foreign squad and sends the message to domestic players that no matter how well they perform, they will be overlooked if they aren't Australian.

Nobody is saying that the current players don't deserve to represent the USA, only that the selection of an entire squad of heritage/residency players does nothing for domestic development. And I'm fully aware of the need for heritage players and a strong team, but there are two vacant spots in the squad that could have been taken by domestic USA players. They could have had a run-out against Scotland tomorrow and everyone would be a winner, and it would be a huge boost for the sport in the USA. Instead we have a team doing well while everyone in the USA is left bitter and disillusioned. It's a huge missed opportunity.

But EH were those 2 spots available to be filled? The Hawaiian kid would be a genuine american, he's played very little RL and is now being looked at by the Tigers. I became more comfortable with the side when you compare the US against other nations who don't have any domestic players in their sides, even if the Americans are naturalised Aussies or Poms but yes a couple of bona-fide domestic players would have got everyone in the US on board but it's all in hindsight. But it doesn't help when you have 2 factions working against each other, instead of everyone getting on board and pushing the game forward and trying to get media attention, we see the opposite and it's a shame as we could have really made some progress in the States.

What my issue was is how little transparency and exposure there was with the lead-up to the WC. We heard nothing, the AMNRL did a very poor job at getting the fact that the USA were even participating in the World Cup. There was next to no social-media presence, next to no online exposure in the States and then we see Nui get all these pats on the back at how well the US side is going and he has said nothing about the side in the lead-up. All the pats on the back should be going to the likes of Steve Johnson, Kelly McGill and Terry Matterson, not someone who has basically given a competing code all his attention in the lead-up. Sure he gave the game it's start in the US but he has also deserted them as well and now the side is doing OK he's gladly taking unwarranted credit.

 

[Evil Homer]

^ They could have easily included two AMNRL/USARL players instead of the two RU players who pulled out.

Comparisons to other nations aren't relevant, most of the other nations don't have domestic set-ups at the same level as the USA. The point is that there was an opportunity to give a massive boost to the sport, and instead because of the short-sightedness of people involved it's probably going to end up having a negative effect when it should be overwhelmingly positive.

 

[Western_Eel]

How many top players from the AMNRL and the USARL don't have a link to Australia?

 

[Western_Eel]

It won't have a negative affect on the game it just won't boost it as much as it should of, but IMO the game will have a more positive reaction if they win games

 

[Evil Homer]

It won't have a negative affect on the game it just won't boost it as much as it should of, but IMO the game will have a more positive reaction if they win games

Obviously it's better if they win, but people in the US are pissed off when they should be celebrating the achievement of the team. If you think that the success of a heritage team in England while actual American players in America are disillusioned and considering walking away from the sport, if you think that's progress for the sport in the USA then you're kidding yourself. And the thing is that the second part could have been easily avoided. USA have made the WC QF using 20 players. If the other 4 squad members had been domestic players then there would have been no complaints from anyone, and we'd all be celebrating the team's success for the fantastic achievement that it is.

 

[juro]

I recall a couple years ago Spinner Howland having a go at people writing negative comments on websites and how these negative comments were making it difficult for teams like the Axemen to get decent sponsorships. While I totally understand how people feel about the current USA squad selection process, is it in the game's best interest to air these grievances in this way?

 

[Western_Eel]

Unless these new supporters go in this forum they will think that there are at least 10 Americans in the team, IMO winning is more important

 

[Western_Eel]

And the main goal is for us to introduce Americans to the game, they have only gotta watch one game and fall in love with the sport

 

[byrner]

EH you're kidding your self. AMNRL sympathiser?
Is looking at both sides to a story and taking a neutral stance being a sympathiser?

EAT a D!CK

 

[Evil Homer]

EH you're kidding your self. AMNRL sympathiser?
Is looking at both sides to a story and taking a neutral stance being a sympathiser?

EAT a D!CK

TBH I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, if your 'neutral stance' has led you to the conclusion that completely ignoring the domestic player pool is somehow good for the sport in the USA then you must be an idiot.

Anyway, it's not about labels, it's about the fact that you've yet again completely ignored an argument in favor of trying to somehow twist things or make them personal. I don't know if you think that people enjoy complaining or are victimizing the AMNRL or being unfair or whatever, but when things happen that are wrong then people have every right to speak out and ask questions. The way to avoid this is to do the right thing.

 

[tmfsd]

People keep talking about American players becoming disillusioned with the game and waking away from it. If that is the case, then only the 24 best American players should be disillusioned with it. Problem is, a lot of Americans seem to think they are the best in the world at whatever they do, just bcos they r American. I've been in the US for 5 yrs now, played league on the east coast and union on the west coast and u would not believe how many Americans I have met that think they are good enough to play at the top level. I'm not sure whether to laugh or be insulted when I hear muppets that can't even crack a D2 side in the US talk about going to play Super15 in Aus/NZ! Obviously there are a couple of blokes around that are handy with a footy in their hands but all these other muppets with no idea about the real world make them look bad

 

[gyallop]

^ They could have easily included two AMNRL/USARL players instead of the two RU players who pulled out.

Comparisons to other nations aren't relevant, most of the other nations don't have domestic set-ups at the same level as the USA. The point is that there was an opportunity to give a massive boost to the sport, and instead because of the short-sightedness of people involved it's probably going to end up having a negative effect when it should be overwhelmingly positive.

taylor welch doesnt play in the AMNRL and didnt play in the Colonial Cup????

name the player that could have done the Eddie Pettybourne has done.

and by the way nice side step of the direct question on your statement of fact that every player has a direct link to Australia by birth or parentage. Do you intend to answer that or do we assume that once again you just make shit up to suit your point of view.

Most nations dont have the same level of domestic sets ups as the USA. The USA has fewer than 400 players based of the number of clubs by 20 players who play in a 7 or 8 competition. I am no expert of numbers but would suspect PNG Fiji France Samoa Tonga Wales Ireland and even Cook Islands of the RLWC nations would have more.

 

[Evil Homer]

taylor welch doesnt play in the AMNRL and didnt play in the Colonial Cup????

name the player that could have done the Eddie Pettybourne has done.

and by the way nice side step of the direct question on your statement of fact that every player has a direct link to Australia by birth or parentage. Do you intend to answer that or do we assume that once again you just make shit up to suit your point of view.

It's hardly sidestepping a question that has been addressed numerous times on this forum and even several times on this thread. I also clearly addressed that Garvey and Welch were the only American players, with Welch having been raised in England. I believe Tagaloa is a Samoan who qualifies through residency in Hawaii, and no idea of the background of Soloai but he may also count. Either way, none of them apart from Garvey are players who came through in America.

http://forums.leagueunlimited.com/showthread.php?t=428062

Since then Durutalo, Hulme, McGoldrick and Cantoni have been replaced with Pettybourne and Welch. There are still two free spots so nobody would have to replace Pettybourne and I'm not sure why you keep making this argument since it's clearly not what I stated.

Most nations dont have the same level of domestic sets ups as the USA. The USA has fewer than 400 players based of the number of clubs by 20 players who play in a 7 or 8 competition. I am no expert of numbers but would suspect PNG Fiji France Samoa Tonga Wales Ireland and even Cook Islands of the RLWC nations would have more.

I can't comment on the island nations but Ireland and Wales certainly don't have anything like the level of domestic competition that the USA does. PNG and France clearly do and their squads are almost entirely made of domestic players. Either way, the likes of Priestly, Offerdahl and Freed have been fantastic at the WC coming out of the AMNRL competition, arguably the weaker of the two competitions, so I don't buy your comments about the USA comps not being good enough. Certainly not to fill two vacant spots in a squad. Teams like Samoa have got a handful of locals to pad out the squad, they probably won't get a game but it's about providing a pathway for local players, something that the USA squad has failed to do.

 

[Boston13s]

It's hardly sidestepping a question that has been addressed numerous times on this forum and even several times on this thread. I also clearly addressed that Garvey and Welch were the only American players, with Welch having been raised in England. I believe Tagaloa is a Samoan who qualifies through residency in Hawaii, and no idea of the background of Soloai but he may also count. Either way, none of them apart from Garvey are players who came through in America.

http://forums.leagueunlimited.com/showthread.php?t=428062

Since then Durutalo, Hulme, McGoldrick and Cantoni have been replaced with Pettybourne and Welch. There are still two free spots so nobody would have to replace Pettybourne and I'm not sure why you keep making this argument since it's clearly not what I stated.I can't comment on the island nations but Ireland and Wales certainly don't have anything like the level of domestic competition that the USA does. PNG and France clearly do and their squads are almost entirely made of domestic players. Either way, the likes of Priestly, Offerdahl and Freed have been fantastic at the WC coming out of the AMNRL competition, arguably the weaker of the two competitions, so I don't buy your comments about the USA comps not being good enough. Certainly not to fill two vacant spots in a squad. Teams like Samoa have got a handful of locals to pad out the squad, they probably won't get a game but it's about providing a pathway for local players, something that the USA squad has failed to do.

It's interesting to note that Luke Hume pulled out because of a broken leg but is selected for the USA Eagles game versus NZ Maori tomorrow.