If perth is such a can't miss home run for nrl expansion..?!

[Perth Red]

The game can grow once revenue grows to point that it can sustain it.

It'll cost the NRL 20 million a year with next to no return.

I don't think anyone realises that the game is only just now becoming financial . We were kn the ropes for a long time. Hap hazardly throwing money into a far flug expansion is exactly what will throw the game back financially.

But rest assured that the NRL are working diligently behind the scenes crunching the number, so if Perth gets the nod I'm behind it but from the outside looking in , it certainly isn't a no brainer.
It's extremely risky.
WA as a state runs on the iron ore price for starters. That market collapses and the Perth economy goes backwards, the people who went there go home.
It all rests on iron ore.
Even Twiggy wasn't looking good at one point and if the ore stayed low for another year.. there would be no Western Force.

Any new club will cost the nrl that. The dolphins will cost the nrl $18mill a year.
The question is how much will tv pay for a ninth game and where would they see most value, along with how does the choice of club location support the game meet its strategic goals?

it’s true our economy is a bit boom and bust when it comes to iron ore prices but I’ve been here 22 years and I’ve never seen it get to a point you’d call the state poor, in fact the opposite. There’s a lot more boom and stuff still to dig out and sell here. A few years ago people were predicting Dire times, a year later things are booming again.
last two years, in not a particularly boom time with covid and everything the state made two $5billion budget surpluses!

i dont see financial sustinability as a risk for a perth club, competitive team, that’s the initial risk.

what? Forest has a net worth of over $30BILLION. I think the force are pretty safe lol

 

[Gobsmacked]

Any new club will cost the nrl that. The dolphins will cost the nrl $18mill a year.
The question is how much will tv pay for a ninth game and where would they see most value, along with how does the choice of club location support the game meet its strategic goals?

it’s true our economy is a bit boom and bust when it comes to iron ore prices but I’ve been here 22 years and I’ve never seen it get to a point you’d call the state poor, in fact the opposite. There’s a lot more boom and stuff still to dig out and sell here. A few years ago people were predicting Dire times, a year later things are booming again.
last two years, in not a particularly boom time with covid and everything the state made two $5billion budget surpluses!

i dont see financial sustinability as a risk for a perth club, competitive team, that’s the initial risk.

what? Forest has a net worth of over $30BILLION. I think the force are pretty safe lol

Yes now he is but for awhile when the ore price was down, tgey were running at lost and nearly collapsed.
The point was simply how much in WA rest on the ore price. Any talk of renewables are fine but it'll be a drop in the ocean compared with ore.

 

[Pneuma]

Yes now he is but for awhile when the ore price was down, tgey were running at lost and nearly collapsed.
The point was simply how much in WA rest on the ore price. Any talk of renewables are fine but it'll be a drop in the ocean compared with ore.

No it won’t.

 

[Gobsmacked]

Literally a third of the players in the NRL are from NZ. Some of the best!
Anyone who thinks 1 team is enough representation needs their head read.
NZ will create a rivalry like what they're trying to create with the Dolphins.
A Perth team will be the least attended game for every existing NRL club and worst for them to travel to.
A financial disaster.
At least NZ Warriors get a big expat attendance as will a second NZ team and the flight time is almost half.

 

[Gobsmacked]

At this current point, every game in the NRL have away fans. Some bigger others. How many away fans will Perth bring..?
There's really no people from WA in the East , especially league fans. Rare as hen's teeth.

 

[Pneuma]

At this current point, every game in the NRL have away fans. Some bigger others. How many away fans will Perth bring..?
There's really no people from WA in the East , especially league fans. Rare as hen's teeth.

This is classic denialism and a central core as to why our game it is where it is today. Constantly finding reasons not to do things. Constantly seeing the negatives to growing the game. Sitting back watching our main competitor take advantage of our innate conservatism, bracket creep our territory and make endless excuses for not responding. Complaining about their conflated sense of self importance while deflating ours by continuing to hide in our games enclaves. Watching them use a false narrative to gain an advantage. For all Perth reds faults, and there are many, what he is 100% correct about is we need to stand up for the game and make it a truly national sport. We don’t and it isn’t. Our major competitor can say the opposite and even though it’s basically a false narrative it’s now an accepted fact by the media business politicians and others.

 

[Gobsmacked]

This is classic denialism and a central core as to why our game it is where it is today. Constantly finding reasons not to do things. Constantly seeing the negatives to growing the game. Sitting back watching our main competitor take advantage of our innate conservatism, bracket creep our territory and make endless excuses for not responding. Complaining about their conflated sense of self importance while deflating ours by continuing to hide in our games enclaves. Watching them use a false narrative to gain an advantage. For all Perth reds faults, and there are many, what he is 100% correct about is we need to stand up for the game and make it a truly national sport. We don’t and it isn’t. Our major competitor can say the opposite and even though it’s basically a false narrative it’s now an accepted fact by the media business politicians and others.

What about it becoming a national sport in NZ ?
A southern Orcas kinda makes it truly national there doesn't it.
NZ becoming strong is Rugby League's best chance at real quality regular international competition.

Not only does a NZ team make it a national sport there, it gives them the best opportunity to grow their national team.
A truly dual national competition with Internationals becoming the pinnacle of the sport.
But sure Perth

 

[Pneuma]

What about it becoming a national sport in NZ ?
A southern Orcas kinda makes it truly national there doesn't it.
NZ becoming strong is Rugby League's best chance at real quality regular international competition.

Not only does a NZ team make it a national sport there, it gives them the best opportunity to grow their national team.
A truly dual national competition with Internationals becoming the pinnacle of the sport.
But sure Perth

So the ARLC should commit our major Australian competition to being a national sport in New Zealand and not Australia? Interesting.

 

[MugaB]

What about it becoming a national sport in NZ ?
A southern Orcas kinda makes it truly national there doesn't it.
NZ becoming strong is Rugby League's best chance at real quality regular international competition.

Not only does a NZ team make it a national sport there, it gives them the best opportunity to grow their national team.
A truly dual national competition with Internationals becoming the pinnacle of the sport.
But sure Perth

Hey wasn't that long ago the pinheads in the WA govt wanted to split away from aus... we could have had another country added to the game... oh well just have to live with NZ and a possible PNG down the track

 

[Gobsmacked]

So the ARLC should commit our major Australian competition to being a national sport in New Zealand and not Australia? Interesting.

Why not?
They appreciate the game more than WA .
Why do we need dots on a map anyway? What does 1 dote make it national when others don't?
So NT and Tasmania don't count?
The AFL aren't a Truly National comp are they?
They don't represent anywhere north of Brisbane, Newcastle ,the Illawarra or the Capital of Australia! The ACT!
At least we have a team in the Capital, that probably makes us more national really.

 

[Gobsmacked]

It's all about dots on a map and making a game national... just seems to only matter to those who live on said dot

 

[Bukowski]

It needs to be realistic. The amount of talent that will be produced in an AFL stronghold like Perth will be a drop in the ocean. And if it's about talent, you can produce talent without an NRL team. Most of our best talents come from the bush.
If they want a team, show us your juniors, show us the ground support.
I see f**k all.

If the NRL keeps growing the financial arm and the competition has more money, we can get talent from all over the world...
If we blow our cash trying to move into areas that don't want rugby league, we'll be stuck with whatever is available here.

Most come from nsw and qld bush. Mostly a few hours drive to an NRL club, not a 5 hrs plane ride. They have realistic pathways, no such thing over here.
You can't grow anything without planting seeds.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I think you summed up the whole argument. WA is an AFL strong hold. As is Melbourne.. a small niche in 5 million is still substantial.
A small niche in 2 million ... not so much.
Then there The Force, the only reason they survive is because one of the richest people in Australia is happy to bleed money into it.
The only way we have a Perth team is if the NRL are willing to bleed tens of millions every year for 50 years..
WHY?

The ARLC is spending $146,700,000 on nine Sydney clubs in 2023 at $16,300,000 per team.

It needs to be realistic. The amount of talent that will be produced in an AFL stronghold like Perth will be a drop in the ocean. And if it's about talent, you can produce talent without an NRL team. Most of our best talents come from the bush.
If they want a team, show us your juniors, show us the ground support.
I see f**k all.

If the NRL keeps growing the financial arm and the competition has more money, we can get talent from all over the world...
If we blow our cash trying to move into areas that don't want rugby league, we'll be stuck with whatever is available here.

Perth is already producing talent for the NRL.

That's not what I'm saying.
I'm saying, that we aren't in that financial or expansion faze yet.
We have better/ profitable places we can expand to first.
We can't afford to become complacent and start throwing money around and it will cost the game an absolute fortune expanding into WA.
The next team should be NZ for simple reasons.
1 .it will grow revenue through TV rights in NZ
2. It will grow the talent pool
3. It won't cost the game 10's of millions!

I think another NZ team in 2025
Then see how our revenue streams are and by 2030 add both Perth and Adelaide in the same year. If it plays out that way then the salary cap should be significantly higher and both Perth and Adelaide will be given the cash to splash on talent from all over the world.

There is no evidence to support any of your unfounded claims.

 

[Gobsmacked]

The ARLC is spending $146,700,000 on nine Sydney clubs in 2023 at $16,300,000 per team.

Which they get triple back in talent, crowd, sponsorship and TV ratings.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Which they get triple back in talent, crowd, sponsorship and TV ratings.

In 2000 all of the non-Sydney clubs generated more money from game day than all of the Sydney clubs.

While the three Sydney clubs who had aligned with Super League – Canterbury, Penrith and Cronulla – were considered the most profitable, every non-Sydney club produced larger gate receipts than their Sydney rivals.

What will it take for a Sydney club to consider relocation?

If a team from England is brave enough to relocate to Canada, what will it take for a Sydney club to secure their future by moving to Brisbane or Perth?

www.nrl.com

Broncos and Cowboys earn significantly more from sponsorship and corporate hospitality than all of the Sydney clubs.

Revenue for NRL Clubs (2018-2021)

Sponsorship and Corporate Hospitality Club 2021 2020 2019 2018 Broncos $12,757,777 $10,310,407 $15,326,071 $14,572,909 Cowboys $8,986,580 $6,451,208 $9,382,117 $9,000,000? Rabbitohs $8,900,000 $6,000,000 $8,900,000 $7,900,000 Roosters $8,197,752...

forums.leagueunlimited.com

 

[MugaB]

Potato

 

[Perth Red]

Yes now he is but for awhile when the ore price was down, tgey were running at lost and nearly collapsed.
The point was simply how much in WA rest on the ore price. Any talk of renewables are fine but it'll be a drop in the ocean compared with ore.

haha, sure, are you talking ten years ago and the insolvency case brought against them? The case for $8million owing for this $3billion a year company? Since then the Fortescue share price has rocketed 360% over the last 10 years lol

Twiggy has a personal wealth of tens of billions, if Fortescue closed tomorrow hed still have billions in the bank! I dont know how much hes putting into Force but Id guess those billions wouldnt be drained too much by his hobby!

Bit overstated, iron ore makes up 59% of mineral and petroleum revenue in WA, but yes it is important. Fortunately the demand for it will remain huge until they invent a substitute for steel! In my experience when prices drop they just mothball the mines until they lift then reopen them.

Western Australia’s resources sector delivered another sales record of $231 billion in 2021-22. This was up marginally from the previous record of $230 billion in 2021, and $20 billion more than the previous financial year high of $211 billion in 2020-21.

• The State Budget confirms that the Western Australian economy is one of the strongest in the nation
• Following a record general government operating surplus estimated at $5.6 billion for last year (2020-21). A $2.8 billion operating surplus is forecast this year (2021-22) with surpluses expected across the outyears.

Money is not a problem for WA, players are!

 

[mongoose]

At this current point, every game in the NRL have away fans. Some bigger others. How many away fans will Perth bring..?
There's really no people from WA in the East , especially league fans. Rare as hen's teeth.

Why should Perth bring away fans to Sydney games to fill out the stadium lol
this might be a relevant argument if Sydney derbies benefitted a lot from away fans but they don't.

 

[Perth Red]

Literally a third of the players in the NRL are from NZ. Some of the best!
Anyone who thinks 1 team is enough representation needs their head read.
NZ will create a rivalry like what they're trying to create with the Dolphins.
A Perth team will be the least attended game for every existing NRL club and worst for them to travel to.
A financial disaster.
At least NZ Warriors get a big expat attendance as will a second NZ team and the flight time is almost half.

do they? Whats the stats on crowds for warriors games in Australia compared to say games against Storm I wonder? Maybe Wookie can tell us lol

Heres a quick and dirty look at Last season. It would seem you overestimate the drawing power of the Warriors in Australia

eels v Warriors 12.2k
eels v Storm 23.7k

Roosters v Warriors 11.2k
Roosters v Storm 12.9k

Raiders v Warriors 11.9k
Raiders V Storm 8.1k

Souths v Warriors 8.9k
Souths V Storm 11.2k

Sharks v Warriors 9.9k
Sharks v Storm 7.8k

Wests v Warriors 7.1k
Wests v Storm 10k

Cowboys v Warriors 17.7k
Cowboys v Storm 22.7k

 

[Dragonwest]

We do, the system theyve got for the kids to develop through into the regions based system gives them the opportunity to progress to next levels, hopefully sg ball is back next year as well as that next step up after that. our problem is after that they go to union, have to head east, or go nowhere.

Disagree.

We lost SG Ball during COVID and there is no hint of it returning. What is excuse is there for not having it this season just commenced? The word from within the NRL (whilst we had SG Ball) was they were already considering flogging us off and getting players to do an American style combine to push talent East.

It's great that we are having regional championships at different age groups across the summer, but it hasn't stop kids doing Fusion/Pride/Dolphins etc. moving straight back to union for the winter months.

There is no continuous high performance training across the juniors at the level required to compete at HM or SG Ball level. Half the kids that were previously rocking up for Pirates trials had barely seen the inside of the gym, skills are poor and physical condition extremely sub-par.

I don't mean to be negative but we can't put our head in the sand and pretend we are ready.