If the Western Force get cut

[herbert henry1908]

It is totally committed to the new market, the office / players or live and are based in perth. All home games in perth.

All I am suggesting is playing away sydney games at the old locations home ground to give people time to adjust, to travelling to other grounds to see their side play.

Fair enough, but you'd need to square that with the other Sydney clubs who'd lose a home game.

 

[herbert henry1908]

The NRL is not going to remove or relocate a Sydney team and they shouldn't either. It's a waste of time even considering it because the NRL and the clubs themselves won't so it's a waste of time.

Sydneys population is going to rise dramatically in the coming years so IMO it would be foolish to be removing teams now.

The AFL can support 18 teams despite each team requiring more players and drawing players from a much smaller base than the NRL (we can get talent from NZ, PNG, pacific islands, UK etc). There is no reason the NRL can't support 18 teams and IMO 20-22 teams is realistic as well.

Let's focus on expanding the comp instead of going backwards by removing or relocating teams.

The NRL may not force a club to move but they could easily withdraw the extra financial support some clubs have received. Force them to face up to the financial realities.

 

[Billythekid]

The NRL may not force a club to move but they could easily withdraw the extra financial support some clubs have received. Force them to face up to the financial realities.

Except they won't ever do that. That was the whole point of my post. We can all come up with our in the sky bullshit discussions about IF the NRL would remove or relocate a team or if any teams would agree to such a thing.

We can also discuss till we're blue in the face about what the ideal comp would look like. I agree that ideally if we started over we wouldn't have this many Sydney teams.

But the fact is we do have this many teams and bar some miracle none of them are going anywhere. So there is no point in entertaining these silly ideas and I'm almost 100% certain the NRL isn't.

 

[The Mad Hatter]

The Western Forced Relocation?

Snappy name.

 

[taipan]

Pretty much every club is in deep financial problems except the broncos and maybe storm. They are either being bailed out by there leagues club or the NRL. Take away the additional "loan monies" from the NRL or additional leagues clubs grants and you have a buffet of choice.

As for mentioning Gold Coast, or Canberra, imo they represent a region that is worth persisting with.

Currently yes most clubs are battling to keep their heads above water.That will not or should not be the case when they get the cap plus 30%.
I simply mentioned Gold Coast and Canberra,because like all clubs, if they go through an ordinary playing season, crowds drop dramatically.
I am for retention of all clubs, been through the crap of removal and mergers
If a team becomes a continual basket case, then I would not hesitate for a relocation.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Except they won't ever do that. That was the whole point of my post. We can all come up with our in the sky bullshit discussions about IF the NRL would remove or relocate a team or if any teams would agree to such a thing.

We can also discuss till we're blue in the face about what the ideal comp would look like. I agree that ideally if we started over we wouldn't have this many Sydney teams.

But the fact is we do have this many teams and bar some miracle none of them are going anywhere. So there is no point in entertaining these silly ideas and I'm almost 100% certain the NRL isn't.

They can't just keep propping up failing clubs.

If at a certain point clubs haven't turned themselves around and put in place governance reforms, the NRL would be doing the right thing by withdrawing support.

This isn't the old days, clubs must be run professionally otherwise they have no place in the competition.

 

[taipan]

Dragons would be in even more strife, why because they would have less paying customers than they have now. They are in strife as their league club funding has dried up and they haven't been able to replace it with anything else. Steelers were in serious strife on crowds of sub 10k. when they got merged.

At least on a crowd avg of 13-16k and with a much bigger membership potential across both regions the joint club may just survive where as unlikely either stand alone would have done.

' Even more strife ",as a single entity playing at Jubilee they had a strong settled established home base.The fans romped over to the Taj Mahal.The Taj Mahal made large sums of money ATT.When the merger came into being .apart from the extra poker machine taxes,clientele for the League club profits dropped also.Profits ditto ,and grants ditto.Yes the area had changed somewhat, but like many Sydney areas, is having large growth with high density housing.

Playing some matches at Kogarah,some at Wollongong and some at the city has not assisted them crowd wise or financial stability wise at present.

Imagine fumble ball having merged clubs ,and playing in different locations.They wouldn't consider it.Then they had the money to do as they liked including wasting it.


The Steelers may not have survived,the Dragons IMO would have .But that is all hypothetical now.

For example with the money the Dragons club used to make, their lack of vision ATT did not make a decent Council owned stadium into one worthy of a 21st century NRL side.

Crowds of 13-16,000 would be achievable with decent suburban stadiums with cover on single entity clubs.I'm talking Manly/Penrith/Sharks.And they wouldn''t need two regions to achieve it.
The old Bears as a single entity it could be argued would average 13,000 plus with a successful side.

The big issue is most areas of Sydney are growing due to high density.That's potential eyeballs and fans, do you leave them for other codes?

 

[adamkungl]

Forget leaving fans to other codes or comparisons in general. Code warz is irrelevant and is a terrible reason for the NRL to make almost any decision.

Two points

1) No Sydney club is behind any other far enough on any important metric to fairly cut or relocate one of them at this stage. Relatively low crowd averages rarely last for more than 1-2 seasons, depending on form and off field issues. Swings and roundabouts, not a valid reason to cut an entire fanbase out.

2) Expansion should be done on it's own merits. There's no proof an expansion team would increase overall crowds. None. A Perth team would likely draw similar to Melbourne (and by extension middle of the road Sydney teams) and another Brisbane team is as likely to be a new Titans as it is a new Broncos.
As such, if it can't stand up without cutting another team it isn't worth doing.

That said, I believe Perth at least can stand up on its own merits and is worth doing.

 

[davi]

Now the Force are gone the eyes are now turning to rugby league in WA.............

"The boss of rugby league in Western Australia says if the Western Force are cut from the Super Rugby competition, it would add further weight to the state's long-term NRL bid.

Governing body SANZAAR confirmed on Sunday the 18-team Super Rugby competition would be cut to 15 for next season, with one Australian team set to go.

That Force were originally tipped to be that team, however they now appear to be vying head-to-head with the Melbourne Rebels to be the fourth Australian franchise.


Meanwhile, in the 13-man game, Western Australian officials have been pushing for the NRL to return to the state since the Western Reds' stint between 1995 and 1997.

NRLWA's chief executive John Sackson, is sympathetic of the Force's plight, but says the absence of any fully-professional rugby side in Perth should help open the door for the Australian Rugby League Commission.

"It's something for them to consider," Sackson said.

"It would make Perth an even more attractive proposition because of the opportunities that would exist."

Amid the doom and gloom surrounding the Super Rugby competition comes this ray of light from New Zealand team the Chiefs.
Sackson is understanding of the fact expansion is off the table at the NRL, and is unlikely to be considered until the end of the current TV deal in 2022.

Perth and another Queensland team are considered the front-runners, while a second New Zealand team would also be an option.

There are 3,600 registered players in Western Australia, and last year five of the West Coast Pirate's SG Ball juniors debuted in the NRL's under-20s competition in round one.

They have also lost a number of promising juniors - including Force players Curtis Rona and Chance Peni - to the 15-man game as an easier path to professional sport arrived.

But Sackson predicted that if the Force were to be wound up, and a local NRL team entered, it would be able to claim the state's best athletes.

"The talented kids out of the rugby codes want to pursue a career," he said.

"That option now exists with the Force, and it could come back the other way."

The Kangaroos played their first Test in Perth last year, and the second game of the 2019 State of Origin series is locked in for the state's new 65,000-seat stadium.

Annual NRL matches at nib Stadium have topped 20,000 in three of the past six visits, and Sackson believes a team would have 10,000 members in their first season.

Crucially he believes even more fans would get behind a new side.

"I don't think there are a lot of Western Force fans who go to NRL games, and I don't think there are a lot of rugby league fans who go to Western Force games," Sackson said.

"But if rugby was to part ways Western Australia those rugby fans wouldn't have an option in terms of rugby codes.

"They're more likely to go to rugby league than the other two football codes."


Read more at http://wwos.nine.com.au/2017/04/10/03/33/perth-s-rugby-doubt-opens-door-for-nrl#Wi5AGB9trXQ07phv.99

 

[herbert henry1908]

Greenberg just answered a question of mine on twitter and pretty much said no expansion before 2023, and no guarantees then.

5 year strategic vision to be published at the end of this year should tell us more.

 

[Foreign Legion]

Greenberg just answered a question of mine on twitter and pretty much said no expansion before 2023, and no guarantees then.

5 year strategic vision to be published at the end of this year should tell us more.

don't hold your breath

 

[BuffaloRules]

Not really breaking news... Grant said the same thing about six months ago..

 

[Perth Red]

Grant said the same thing three years ago, no vision, no strategy. Next tv deal will roll around and we still won't have a ninth game to sell.

 

[Billythekid]

Greenberg just answered a question of mine on twitter and pretty much said no expansion before 2023, and no guarantees then.

5 year strategic vision to be published at the end of this year should tell us more.

As said above this is hardly new. The NRL have no intention of expanding and the clubs are against it to. Without a drastic change of management the NRL will continue on their short sighted path. That's basically the history of rugby league, always selling ourselves short and always ending up behind where we should be because of it.

 

[Perth Red]

Lol Force have now taken aru to court! I thought the aru owned them?

WESTERN Force have taken unprecedented legal action against the Australian Rugby Union in their fight for Super Rugby survival with the Melbourne Rebels.

They served a writ on the ARU tonight night notifying the governing body of their intention to apply for an injunction against the plan to revoke their Super Rugby licence.

And they have the weight of the State Government behind them.

The writ, issued in the Supreme Court, was served after a two hour meeting between the RugbyWA board and the ARU's chief operating officer Rob Clarke and chief financial officer Todd Day.

The Force have a clause in the alliance agreement signed by the club and the ARU last year that commits both parties through the current broadcast deal that ends in 2020.

The Force and the privately owned Rebels have been told by the ARU that one of them will be extinct at the end of the season after SANZAAR decided to shrink the competition from 18 to 15 sides.

Force chief executive Mark Sinderberry said the club would not go down without a fight.

"The club will fight as hard off the pitch as the team is fighting on the pitch," he said.

In a statement issued tonight, the Force said the meeting was "unsatisfactory".

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/for...t/news-story/f0f5e768511cfae8d6a8569a2caade06

 

[The Mad Hatter]

They should give George Piggins a call.

 

[adamkungl]

Greenberg said "expansion will be addressed" in a strategic announcement at the end of the year.

Here is how he will address it:

"After consultation with our clubs and media partners, we have decided expansion of the NRL is not on the agenda in the foreseeable future.
However we are committed to expanding our national footprint through the NSW and QLD Cup and historic events such as 2019 Origin in Perth."

And then Perth will continue to get 1 game a year, Adelaide 1 every 2 years, a few more teams will move to Western Sydney in NSW Cup, the Fijian NSW Cup bid will fade off the radar, and the status quo will continue.

 

[Perth Red]

Greenberg said "expansion will be addressed" in a strategic announcement at the end of the year.

Here is how he will address it:

"After consultation with our clubs and media partners, we have decided expansion of the NRL is not on the agenda in the foreseeable future.
However we are committed to expanding our national footprint through the NSW and QLD Cup and historic events such as 2019 Origin in Perth."

And then Perth will continue to get 1 game a year, Adelaide 1 every 2 years, a few more teams will move to Western Sydney in NSW Cup, the Fijian NSW Cup bid will fade off the radar, and the status quo will continue.

You must be nostradamus, this is exactly what's going to happen lol

 

[Diesel]

The bald merkin should be called out on it... I'm off to twitter now

 

[siv]

The majority of their clubs are basket cases if 11 of the 18 are still losing money after these handouts from head office....

Unless they can keep doubling their revenue every TV deal, the AFL probably are destined to fail, particularly with the amount of money they are putting into the Gold Coast and GWS with minimal results to date....

Their clubs get every supposed leg up going around with crowds, sponsorships, favourable conta media comment but they still cant turn a dollar?

Tell me how many are losing money AFTER LC grants and I will listen