Immortals concept + Dally M bit of a joke

[Silent Knight]

I knew this thread before too long would degenerate into yet another NSW vs QLD jerkoff. Personally I don't care for the whole Immortals concept, but I hope Johns wins purely so I can enjoy.all the butthurt up here in Brisbane when it's announced. The Courier Fail and all their mongoloid readers will bitch and moan about yet another "NSW conspiracy".

 

[Frailty]

Look people already assume Queenslanders are dumb, why do you choose to further prove that by being a genius?

The drugs he used were not performance enhancing drugs. They were recreational drugs. They helped him as much as a coffee helps you play footy. If anything they made him worse.

The drugs he used have no relevance to him as a football player.

You may as well say they should do mental health checks on immortal candidates and anyone with mental health issues should be forbidden from being an immortal.

Your post is highly offensive, it is a slanderous personal attack, it crossed the line and it was below the belt. It sickens me to be honest that you or anyone else is so pathetic to think that way.

Ease up phaggot.

You can claim as much as you want that they were not performance enhancing, but he used it as a method to relax himself and thus had an advantage over other players. In addition to this, it is on the banned substance list that players are tested for. In other words - he cheated.

The fact of the matter is he admitted to breaking the rules of the game whilst he was playing. I am not a Queenslander, and have no issue with him being considered to be an Immortal but there is NO WAY he should be given the nod before the likes of Provan, Lewis, Meninga, Kenny, Rogers, etc.

 

[Snappy]

Bunniesman is highly offensive.

Also waiting for AntiLag to jump in with his definition of the word 'slanderous'

 

[Bobby DIGital]

People who have watched the game for 50 years will tell you there never was an equal to Johns.

I've watched Rugby League for 23 years and I've seen multiple players better than Johns.

 

[Frailty]

I've watched Rugby League for 23 years and I've seen multiple players better than Johns.

Shhh... Don't upset him...

I mean the fact that Johns rarely represented his state and country in his position was that he was so good they thought it was unfair to the opposition. And he was SO good he was better than all other players in those positions... DERP!

 

[Bretto]

I'm really surprised that some people rate Andrew Johns as the greatest Rugby League player they've ever seen. As said above - he wasn't even good enough to make halfback for NSW or Australia for some time. Fair dinkum.

 

[Rod]

I never saw Mal play much so I can't comment on him. All I can say is that Johns is the best I've ever seen, which covers the last 18 odd years.

For all those talking about Mal etc's coaching records, didn't an article come out a month or so ago from the judges saying that the Immortals are judged solely on playing exploits? Someone may be able to help me out there.

NSW selectors have a long history of being geniuss so I don't see how them picking Joey at hooker should be held against him. They were just doing whatever they could to get as many good players in the starting line-up as they could.

Rarely represented his state and country in his position :lol:. 23 Origins and something about the same number of internationals, maybe 5 out of those 45-odd were out of position?

Also Lewis is already an Immortal for the person suggesting him. He was inducted only 7 years after retiring so 5 for Johns wouldn't exactly be an outrage. He was also inducted before Beetson who obviously finished his career a lot earlier, so Johns being named wouldn't necessarily rule Mal out from being named in the future.

 

[Tap Twist Snap]

I think they should just leave the Immortals as they are as I can't see any player from the last 20 years being universally approved. If they really want to add someone it should be someone like Harry Bath or Norm Provan. Names that have stood the test of time as being "Legends" and with records that speak for themselves.

The hall of fame is good enough for those who have retired in the last 20 years and the commission should be talking that up over some award that is run by a magazine anyway.

 

[Dresden Dan]

What hall of fame? Peoples get all worked up over Immortals & Golden Boots. Meow! These are awards from magazines. They mean nothing. Who votes to decide who votes? What is the criteria? The NRL might as well invent its own greatest player award & stick it on the All Stars public voting.

 

[Bobby DIGital]

Rarely represented his state and country in his position :lol:. 23 Origins and something about the same number of internationals, maybe 5 out of those 45-odd were out of position?

Johns Origin career:
started at halfback - 16 (Dropped in 95 after game 2)
started at hooker - 5 (96 & 97)
started from the bench, and came on to play hooker - 2 (2000. Was left out of the first game completely)

7 out of 23 games played out of position. So that's 30.4% of his Origin career. And that's not going into his test career where he played 2 world cups at hooker.

 

[Frailty]

Let's forget that the only reason he got a start in Origin was the fact that Ricky Stuart wasn't picked because he was with Super League affiliated Raiders side... And then he was knocked out of position by Geoff Toovey!

This is also how he got his start in the Australian team, and again was knocked out of position by Geoff Toovey, and then when the game reunited he was knocked out of position by players like Brett Kimmorley.

For someone who some claim to be the best ever, he was regularly put out of position.

 

[Mr Saab]

Johns Origin career:
started at halfback - 16 (Dropped in 95 after game 2)
started at hooker - 5 (96 & 97)
started from the bench, and came on to play hooker - 2 (2000. Was left out of the first game completely)

7 out of 23 games played out of position. So that's 30.4% of his Origin career. And that's not going into his test career where he played 2 world cups at hooker.

LOLs @ Rod

 

[Rod]

Yeah wasn't sure of the numbers, it's a few more than I first thought. Like 5 more :roll:.

In any event people who are against Johns being an immortal have a few things they can argue, the fact he got picked out of position for a few games is one that seems to be latched onto quite often. Personally I think being played out of position isn't that big of a deal, it's just how the selectors think it best helps the team. If Widdop got injured for the Storm and they put Smith at five-eighth and Hinchcliffe at hooker does that mean Hinchcliffe is a better hooker than Smith, and we should discount that period when talking about Smith being a great all-time hooker?

I just don't think it's that important. If you consider the case for Johns being an all-time great against the case against him and the best the case against him can come up with is that he played a few rep games out of his preferred position like many great players have done, I think you've got your answer right there.

 

[Mr Saab]

Johns will be an immortal one day, but Coote and Provan are far more deserving of this "immortal" gimmick of the RLW mag.

 

[Patorick]

TBH, the lack of Cliff Lyons really affects the credibility of all this.

 

[Frailty]

Yeah wasn't sure of the numbers, it's a few more than I first thought. Like 5 more :roll:.

In any event people who are against Johns being an immortal have a few things they can argue, the fact he got picked out of position for a few games is one that seems to be latched onto quite often. Personally I think being played out of position isn't that big of a deal, it's just how the selectors think it best helps the team. If Widdop got injured for the Storm and they put Smith at five-eighth and Hinchcliffe at hooker does that mean Hinchcliffe is a better hooker than Smith, and we should discount that period when talking about Smith being a great all-time hooker?

I just don't think it's that important. If you consider the case for Johns being an all-time great against the case against him and the best the case against him can come up with is that he played a few rep games out of his preferred position like many great players have done, I think you've got your answer right there.

But the problem with your argument is that you have given an example from a club rather than a representative side. In a representative side, they put the best players in their positions, and if they think they are good enough they will be still be in the side. For an example, Hayne on the wing for NSW. Stewart is the better option, but Hayne still brings something.

No one is denying that Johns was a good player. And he may deserve to be an Immortal - but not when you have the likes of Provan, Meninga, Lewis, Kenny, etc not already there.

 

[Rod]

Again, Lewis is already an immortal.

As I said, I didn't see Meninga etc play, you may well be right. I can only comment on Johns. And as I said, they've showed in the past when picking Immortals that they don't have to be picked in the order they retired (Lewis before Beetson etc).

 

[Patorick]

Almost moreso than Hadley and Rothfield being judges for it.

 

[Perth Red]

Johns
SOO 23 Australia 27
1st grade 249 games 80 tries

Meninga
SOO 32 Australia 46 (23 as capt)
1st grade 166 games 74 tries

leaving aside Johns drug use and Meningas coaching skills, on the field the stats still point to Meninga. Having had the privallage to watch both play I would hands down say meninga was the more influential at rep level. Johns at club level. if rep level is the pinnacle of the game then you would again have to say that Meningas influence was greater in the tougher arenas.

 

[Cumberland Throw]

RLW invented the immortals so it's fair enough they promote it


I would of liked to see the Independant nrl offer RLW a sum of money to buy all rights to the immortals.

They could of added as an adjunct to the hall of fame and every 5 years another immortal gets named

At the moment it seems to ad hoc, whenever circulations drops of the rlw they sit around a table and say " let announce an immortal "

At least we would know when it's coming and why