Immortals concept + Dally M bit of a joke

[Pedge1971]

I vote Freddy, SHORTLIST BE DAMNED

I can see Penrith don't have any, but aren't u a rooters supporter?

 

[Pedge1971]

Best player in history? That'll do me.



It sickens you? It sickens me that Johns was taking drugs for so long throughout his career and brought the game down so many pegs, on his own, through his own selfish actions.

The drugs were not performance enhancing ones, so that makes it okay does it? What kind of f**king stupid shit is this? So if I'm a Police Officer, it's okay for me to snort crack on the weekends because it's not enhancing me in my job? Or what about if I'm the Prime minister, surely it'd be okay to do LSD and lead the country right? It's not hurting anyone. As long as I do the job okay, that should alright, yeah?

Johns did drugs for most of his playing career. He's admitted to it. He lost all respect from me.

How you can possibly condone the use of drugs of any kind, especially by professional athletes that kids look up to, beggars belief. Next you'll be saying Ivan Milat was a pretty good bloke... you know... when he wasn't murdering people violently and cutting off their heads with axes.

Was Ivan Milat a good footy player? Look at criteria.....and if Johns is so "tainted" why does he have a high profile job in media? Can bag off his employer all you like but he is no Ivan Milat and being a good bloke should not make u an immortal....it's about what he did on the field.

 

[Pedge1971]

The fact of the matter is anyone who thinks Johns deserves the honor 5 years after retiring and Meninga doesn't is either a NSW androtop or just a flat out idiot.

Qld rail or some other public service entity? Which is it?

Not diminishing Mal as he was great, but watch the reels again.

 

[Pedge1971]

Johns
SOO 23 Australia 27
1st grade 249 games 80 tries

Meninga
SOO 32 Australia 46 (23 as capt)
1st grade 166 games 74 tries

leaving aside Johns drug use and Meningas coaching skills, on the field the stats still point to Meninga. Having had the privallage to watch both play I would hands down say meninga was the more influential at rep level. Johns at club level. if rep level is the pinnacle of the game then you would again have to say that Meningas influence was greater in the tougher arenas.

Stats are bullshit. Different positions, different influence on the game.

Joey changed the way am half plays the game and was with several others a pioneer of the modern game. Mal played a lot of good footy for Qld and Aust and deserves the best accolades. My opinion on footy terms is Joey.

 

[Bretto]

Was Ivan Milat a good footy player? Look at criteria.....and if Johns is so "tainted" why does he have a high profile job in media? Can bag off his employer all you like but he is no Ivan Milat and being a good bloke should not make u an immortal....it's about what he did on the field.

So, by your reckoning, it is perfectly okay for a Rugby League player to murder and eat babies off the field, then also be named as an immortal, because it's about what they did on the field.

What a f**king stupid thing to say.

 

[Pedge1971]

So, by your reckoning, it is perfectly okay for a Rugby League player to murder and eat babies off the field, then also be named as an immortal, because it's about what they did on the field.

What a f**king stupid thing to say.

Nope, I'm merely referencing the criteria. Joey did none of the above so stop overplaying it. Wayne Pearce was a nice guy on and off the field, Raper from all reports was a hell raiser but a lot of it went unreported in that era. So Wayne Pearce should be an immortal and Raper stripped of his accolade?

 

[PaddyBoy]

I think the point is dropping pingers is not really that big of an issue.

Big Dell was staying with a certain player when he was nabbed on cocaine, if that player happened to get in trouble for using it, I would not care one iota, and that player still deserves to be an immortal.

If you went through and asked most of the players who have played in the last 30 years, most of them would have done drugs, like everyone else, suck it up. The same people screaming for Joey's blood don't seem to hold the same ideas on role models when Greg Inglis enters the equation.

You've come to the conclusion that you don't want Johns to be an immortal because you don't like him, and now you're looking for reasons to justify your position.

As for the debate, saw Johns play, never saw Mal (apart from highlights) so can't say. Most people swear he was the best centre they've ever seen though, and he achieved a hell of a lot.

 

[M2D2]

:lol: Queenslanders.

 

[macavity]

If Joey was a Queenslander there wouldn't even be a debate.

 

[Lego_Man]

So, by your reckoning, it is perfectly okay for a Rugby League player to murder and eat babies off the field, then also be named as an immortal, because it's about what they did on the field.

What a f**king stupid thing to say.

The fact that youre equating violent crime with a victimless breach of an (arguably unjust) regulation is where your argument completely falls over.

Drugs arent a moral issue, they're a health issue. Noone was harmed by what Johns did, except himself.

My money says you probably like to get pissed on the weekend. Maybe a couple of beers to unwind after a long day at work. Just because your drug of choice is legal doesnt give you the moral high ground over anyone else.

 

[Bretto]

The fact that youre equating violent crime with a victimless breach of an (arguably unjust) regulation is where your argument completely falls over.

Drugs arent a moral issue, they're a health issue. Noone was harmed by what Johns did, except himself.

My money says you probably like to get pissed on the weekend. Maybe a couple of beers to unwind after a long day at work. Just because your drug of choice is legal doesnt give you the moral high ground over anyone else.

Arg, spare me. The principle is the same. "What he does off the field shouldn't matter, it's what he does on the field that should matter." That means, everything that isn't to do with the football career, is okay. Doesn't matter if it's drugs, killing people, knitting or making pottery, the principle is the same.

And I don't know how you can sit there and say that drugs aren't a moral issue? So it's completely okay to take drugs is it? It doesn't hurt anyone? What about all the drug addicts who steal from their family members to feed their addiction? Or the dug addicts who kill and steal to further their horrid addiction?

I'm hardly taking a moral high ground, I'm simply pointing out what the guy did, and saying that because of that there's better recipients for the immortal status. You can argue it all day, it is a fact he used recreational drugs like Speed, Ecstasy and god knows what else during his career. He's entitled to do that if he wants to, it's a free world. I personally think taking drugs is stupid, but that's me. Obviously a lot of people on here don't seem to mind - they probably do them themselves on the weekends. Good luck to them. Doesn't change the fact that there are more deserving people of the award that this thread is about.

 

[Fire]

Just give it to Norm before the poor merkin dies. Joey and Mal will get their time.

 

[Lego_Man]

Arg, spare me. The principle is the same. "What he does off the field shouldn't matter, it's what he does on the field that should matter." That means, everything that isn't to do with the football career, is okay. Doesn't matter if it's drugs, killing people, knitting or making pottery, the principle is the same.

Not really. All it means is that it would have to be something pretty f**king bad. If you reverse what youre saying my argument is, by your view we should disqualify from consideration everyone who has done anything wrong, from cheating on their girlfriend to getting a speeding ticket.

And I don't know how you can sit there and say that drugs aren't a moral issue? So it's completely okay to take drugs is it? It doesn't hurt anyone? What about all the drug addicts who steal from their family members to feed their addiction? Or the dug addicts who kill and steal to further their horrid addiction?

Taking the drug itself isnt a moral act. No more so than drinking a beer (in case you missed the original point that alcohol is a drug). A drug is something that alters your mental state, but it's what you do afterwards that matters. Yes if you do those things you mention, that is immoral, but that's not what we're talking about in Joey's case is it?

I'm hardly taking a moral high ground, I'm simply pointing out what the guy did, and saying that because of that there's better recipients for the immortal status. You can argue it all day, it is a fact he used recreational drugs like Speed, Ecstasy and god knows what else during his career. He's entitled to do that if he wants to, it's a free world. I personally think taking drugs is stupid, but that's me. Obviously a lot of people on here don't seem to mind - they probably do them themselves on the weekends. Good luck to them. Doesn't change the fact that there are more deserving people of the award that this thread is about.

Well youre right, i dont mind what he gets up to on the weekend. Within reason. I'm sure a lot of past Immortals were far from squeaky clean, the only difference is that back then there was no mass media to make a big story out of everything a player was seen doing.

 

[mongoose]

Arg, spare me. The principle is the same. "What he does off the field shouldn't matter, it's what he does on the field that should matter." That means, everything that isn't to do with the football career, is okay. Doesn't matter if it's drugs, killing people, knitting or making pottery, the principle is the same.

And I don't know how you can sit there and say that drugs aren't a moral issue? So it's completely okay to take drugs is it? It doesn't hurt anyone? What about all the drug addicts who steal from their family members to feed their addiction? Or the dug addicts who kill and steal to further their horrid addiction?

I'm hardly taking a moral high ground, I'm simply pointing out what the guy did, and saying that because of that there's better recipients for the immortal status. You can argue it all day, it is a fact he used recreational drugs like Speed, Ecstasy and god knows what else during his career. He's entitled to do that if he wants to, it's a free world. I personally think taking drugs is stupid, but that's me. Obviously a lot of people on here don't seem to mind - they probably do them themselves on the weekends. Good luck to them. Doesn't change the fact that there are more deserving people of the award that this thread is about.

So I guess you're probably ok with the bali bomber getting the same sentence as Shappelle Corby then? since you think using drugs is on the same level as murder.

 

[Lambretta]

So now, not only are we condoning the taking of recreational drugs like Ecstacy and Speed, but it's also now impressive? :crazy:

Surely you guys don't condone the use of recreational drugs?

Oh dear. Right, let me start off by admitting that in the drugs taking stakes Andrew Johns ranks about 10,000 places behind me.

MDMA, the active ingredient in Ecstacy is actually less dangerous than Paracetamol. Yep, more people have allergic reactions to headache tablets than they do to MDMA.

Players wouldn't take MDMA before a game or in the lead in to a game because you burn up so much energy and use up so much seratonin (the body's natural feel good factor chemical) that you feel run down and sluggish for a day or so afterwards. A player would take MDMA AFTER a game and less than 48 hours after taking it if they were drug tested nothing would show up in a toxicology report. Therefore the taking of ecstacy would have no bearing on performances really other than possible negative ones, which only makes Johns all the more impressive.

Having taken ecstacy on hundreds of occasions in the 90's and noughties, I am fairly well placed to let you know it's absolutely f**king amazing. I've tried quite a few other drugs, but nothing even comes close. But, the comedowns are a drag and actually being productive is also difficult afterwards. Plus the highs get more and more mundane until you just get bored of taking it. In short you grow up.

Much the same as drinking copious amounts of alcohol really. Except people on ecstacy never start fights, or leer at women etc - they're either wrapped in their own world dancing or being nice and pleasant.

I have no idea why anyone would think anything less of someone for taking recreational drugs, either ecstacy or pot or whatever. As long as you don't harm others, then really why are they a problem?

Oh and don't push the "they're illegal" line. That's a complete non argument. Slavery used to be legal - that didn't make it right. The law can be and frequently is an ass.

If you want to give us a genuine reason why enjoying yourself whilst not harming others makes you less of a person, please go right ahead. I've never had a sensible informed answer to this question yet.

 

[Lambretta]

As for who would I give the award to?

I'm with Gordon Tallis on this one - I'd hand them out to far more than 1 person. I believe he said he could think of seven people immediately who should be given the award and I'm with him. The fact that there are only seven of them after 100 years is a f**king joke.

Our League Hall of Fame is an appallingly run concept - we seem to approach this in a haphazard approach which gives it no sense of occasion or meaning.

There should be set criteria about naming players - and making the roll should be one of the highest honours the game can bestow on a player. We should be genuinely excited about naming an Immortal but half the people posting in this thread on a forum dedicated to league can't give a toss. If that's not a damning indictment of the concept I don't know what is.

 

[Lambretta]

And I don't know how you can sit there and say that drugs aren't a moral issue? So it's completely okay to take drugs is it? It doesn't hurt anyone? What about all the drug addicts who steal from their family members to feed their addiction? Or the dug addicts who kill and steal to further their horrid addiction?

MDMA is not addictive - for you to believe it is shows how little you know on the subject. I'd stop mentioning if I were you - you're not doing yourself any favours.

 

[Mr Fourex]

People who have watched the game for 50 years will tell you there never was an equal to Johns.

:lol: ......like who?

Wait...don't tell me

people you know.....right? :roll:

Lewis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Johns

No one is denying that Johns was a good player. And he may deserve to be an Immortal - but not when you have the likes of Provan, Meninga, Lewis, Kenny, etc not already there.

Pssst.......Wally Lewis IS already an immortal

Clive Churchill
Bob Fulton
Reg Gasnier
Johnny Raper
Graeme Langlands
Wally Lewis
Arthur Beetson

When you look at the list of already named immortals, for mine a natural order of things should have Mal Meninga as the next immortal.

Junkie Johns can get in line and wait his turn.....next

Then Lockyer.



To name 4 immortals in 1981....then do nothing for near 20 years and then start naming some more, really smacks of mismanagement and ineptitude by the people of RLW who had the idea in the first place. The governing league bodies of the time should have shored this idea up and prevented it from becoming a bastardised mockery.

If the concept of this "award/recognition" had of been managed properly, players like Sterling, Kenny and at a stretch, even Brad Fittler would already find their names as being immortalised forever.

 

[Lambretta]

If the concept of this "award/recognition" had of been managed properly, players like Sterling, Kenny and at a stretch, even Brad Fittler would already find their names as being immortalised forever.

100%

Go through the list of player inducted between 2002 and 2007 (there haven't been any since then) and tell me people like Provan, Dally M, Dave Brown, Sterling, Kenny, Vic Hey, Coote etc don't deserve to have been named before Meninga and Johns.

Incidentally, Johns isn't even IN the Hall of Fame. Nor are Fittler, Langer or Daley - worthy inclusions in anyone's book.

If the idea is to be taken seriously it should be done properly, not just names printed in a magazine at the say so of a drunken moron whose day job includes digging up shit on everyone involved in Rugby League and trying to make the game look bad at every opportunity.

 

[adamkungl]

Johns
SOO 23 Australia 27
1st grade 249 games 80 tries

Meninga
SOO 32 Australia 46 (23 as capt)
1st grade 166 games 74 tries

leaving aside Johns drug use and Meningas coaching skills, on the field the stats still point to Meninga. Having had the privallage to watch both play I would hands down say meninga was the more influential at rep level. Johns at club level. if rep level is the pinnacle of the game then you would again have to say that Meningas influence was greater in the tougher arenas.

Meninga has coaching skills? :sarcasm:

Nevertheless:

Fittler
1st Grade 336
SOO 34 (14 capt)
Australia 40 (20 capt)