Immortals concept + Dally M bit of a joke

[adamkungl]

Fittler is more talented than Lockyer and achieved more than Johns...

 

[ANTiLAG]

Wow. It is a scary world when Mr Fourex makes a semblence of sense. Unlike him, I will not assume that Mal will become an immortal inevitably, but I agree with him that, if Mal were to become an immortal, it should be before Joey.

I can live with Mal not ever being an immortal. If he gets it, I can live with that too.

One guy who I would have in line in front of Mal, in terms of contribution and not linear time, is Freddy.

I don't want to get into a Freddy v Joey, but if Joey is in line for this, then Freddy should be too.

Personally, I couldn't give 2 sniffs about Joey's drug use.

 

[ANTiLAG]

Johns
SOO 23 Australia 27
1st grade 249 games 80 tries

Meninga
SOO 32 Australia 46 (23 as capt)
1st grade 166 games 74 tries

leaving aside Johns drug use and Meningas coaching skills, on the field the stats still point to Meninga. Having had the privallage to watch both play I would hands down say meninga was the more influential at rep level. Johns at club level. if rep level is the pinnacle of the game then you would again have to say that Meningas influence was greater in the tougher arenas.

I'm a Queensland fan who is very quick to shoot down Joey's rep record but I call BS on this. 1992-94 Queensland turned to Mal after Wally, and got sfa. After Fittler, NSW called on Joey. They got more than sfa. More influential at rep than Joey? PFFFFT.


And obviously Joey would be more influtential at club level. That Canberra team relied on Stuart, then demi-gods Daley and Walters, (insert Lazo about here) and then Clyde, Belcher, and Meninga.

Just my opinon.

Playing outside Clyde, Walters, Stuart, Daley and popping balls to Belcher, Chicka, Hoppe, Noa and Nagas must've been tough work. Wiki even looked like great a centre playing around them.

Not interested in a Daley v Stuart debate either. If you think Daley then Stuart, fine, I can live with that. I might too. Either way, they were both far more influential than Mal. At rep and in club.

 

[Mr Fourex]

Meninga has coaching skills? :sarcasm:

Nevertheless:

Fittler
1st Grade 336
SOO 34 (14 capt)
Australia 40 (20 capt)

I vote Freddy, SHORTLIST BE DAMNED

Fittler is more talented than Lockyer and achieved more than Johns...

Please.....just stop

One guy who I would have in line in front of Mal, in terms of contribution and not linear time, is Freddy.

:crazy:

Fittler is an infant in terms of greatness and "contribution" compared to Meninga.

Meninga

• Only player to make four Kangaroo Tour's as a player (1982, 1986, 1990 and 1994)

• Only player to twice captain a Kangaroo Tour (1990 and 1994).

• Most points scored in Test matches for Australia (272 – 21 tries, 96 goals)

• Most goals kicked in Test matches for Australia (96)

• Most points scored in State of Origin (161)

• Most goals kicked in a State of Origin match for Queensland (7 in Game 1 1980), shared with Johnathan Thurston

• Most State of Origins won as coach in a row. 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 (6)

• Meninga was made a Member of the Order of Australia (AM) for his services to rugby league in 1994.

Fittler

• 1st Grade 336

• SOO 34 (14 capt)

• Australia 40 (20 capt)

 

[ANTiLAG]

Fittler is an infant in terms of greatness and "contribution" compared to Meninga.

Meninga

• Only player to make four Kangaroo Tour's as a player (1982, 1986, 1990 and 1994)

• Only player to twice captain a Kangaroo Tour (1990 and 1994).

All very nice... Now lets look at some facts. Fittler went on tour in 1990, 1994, and 2001. He was denied the opportunity of a 1998 tour to match Meninga's record. He did however captain Australia to two World Cups in 1995 and 2000, and was played a big role in 1992 at pivot. Meninga captained Australia to one world cup.

Meninga never captained Queensland to an origin shield. Fittler managed this feat twice despite being a NSWman.

• Most points scored in Test matches for Australia (272 – 21 tries, 96 goals)

• Most goals kicked in Test matches for Australia (96)

• Most points scored in State of Origin (161)

• Most goals kicked in a State of Origin match for Queensland (7 in Game 1 1980), shared with Johnathan Thurston

If immortal status is given for goal kicking, then surely that toe poker is not on the list. Call Ridge, Halligan or El Masri and tell them they have a sniff now.

• Most State of Origins won as coach in a row. 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 (6)

Even if I amuse you that Mal is actually a coach, if they are giving immortal status on coaching criteria combined with playing ability then Wayne Bennett is a shoo in, and Phil Gould and Jack Gibson have a shot.

• Meninga was made a Member of the Order of Australia (AM) for his services to rugby league in 1994.

By 1995 Rugby League had given nothing to Mal so that award is meaningless by his own recognition.

Fittler

• 1st Grade 336

• SOO 34 (14 capt)

• Australia 40 (20 capt)

Is Fittler the only captain in the world to win two world cups? Is he the only player to have won 3 world cups?

He is only the second NSW captain to lead them to victory in more than 1 series success. Mal failed to do this, and lets face it, throughout history Origin has been Queensland's party. As a player Fittler dragged the Roosters to 4 grand finals in 5 years. Sure he only converted 1, but there was no Walters and no Daley and no Stuart pulling the strings. He made them contenders, without him and they were pretenders. As a player Mal might have worn the c at Canberra, as he does have the coaches title now. Without Stuart and Daley, or without Hagan now, what do you have?

I'm not saying that Fittler is Wally Lewis in this post, but Meninga v Fittler? I'd take Fittler any day of the week. Maybe he should start coaching the Blues when they find a superstar hooker and halfback combo and Queensland is back to Flannery and Wagonites in the halves.

 

[Fire]

You all know it's St George's fault this 'Immortals' shit, don't you lol? Back in the day our sponsors 'Penfolds' wanted to release a new port, and having the four Immortals on the bottle was just a marketing gimmick. Nothing more, nothing less.

Anyways, like I said, put big Norm in there before the poor old merkin dies. The rest will get their chance.

 

[mongoose]

I loved Fitler but there was a period where he had a tendency to go missing in big games (1995 origin series sticks out). Wasn't he most overrated player one year?

 

[ANTiLAG]

No way he went missing in 1995. Joey did, Matty as well to a certain extent, coupled with Queensland being spectacular in defence.

 

[Dresden Dan]

The magazine must be loving this free publicity.

 

[mongoose]

No way he went missing in 1995. Joey did, Matty as well to a certain extent, coupled with Queensland being spectacular in defence.

It was Johns first series, both of them. Fittler was captain and had been in the side since 1990.

Did you see the QLD side that year? NSW should have demolished them in all 3 games.

 

[jonno_knights]

I'm really surprised that some people rate Andrew Johns as the greatest Rugby League player they've ever seen. As said above - he wasn't even good enough to make halfback for NSW or Australia for some time. Fair dinkum.

So Billy Slater doesnt deserve to be put along side the greatest fullbacks ever then. Took to long to get the QLD and AUS number 1's....

Cameron Smith had to wait for Danny Buderus to become unavailable for Australia to grab the number 9 from him...

Your arguement is as stupid as it gets.

 

[adamkungl]

Please.....just stop



:crazy:

Fittler is an infant in terms of greatness and "contribution" compared to Meninga.

Meninga

• Only player to make four Kangaroo Tour's as a player (1982, 1986, 1990 and 1994)

• Only player to twice captain a Kangaroo Tour (1990 and 1994).

• Most points scored in Test matches for Australia (272 – 21 tries, 96 goals)

• Most goals kicked in Test matches for Australia (96)

• Most points scored in State of Origin (161)

• Most goals kicked in a State of Origin match for Queensland (7 in Game 1 1980), shared with Johnathan Thurston

• Most State of Origins won as coach in a row. 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 (6)

• Meninga was made a Member of the Order of Australia (AM) for his services to rugby league in 1994.

Fittler

• 1st Grade 336

• SOO 34 (14 capt)

• Australia 40 (20 capt)

Twat.

Aside from what Antilag already pointed out

- Fittler was made a member of the Order of Australia in 2006

-Fittler remains the youngest NSW State of Origin player (18 years 114 days) and was once the youngest Kangaroo representative (18 years 247 days) until Israel Folau made his debut in late 2007. Fittler played more total matches (409 combining club and representative games) than any other player.

 

[jonno_knights]

Fittler played more total matches (409 combining club and representative games) than any other player.

Except Lockyer

 

[ANTiLAG]

It was Johns first series, both of them. Fittler was captain and had been in the side since 1990.

Did you see the QLD side that year? NSW should have demolished them in all 3 games.

That series loss was in no way at all reflective on Freddy's playing ability or leadership. That Queensland side played well beyond themselves. It was nothing short of spectacular. New stars like Ikin were discovered, and J Smith revealed how good he was going to be.

But lets put in perspective: Danny Moore was probably the weakest outside back, and he played his way into an Aussie jumper that year. Sing kicked on even further. They imported Lam, who also kicked on, the starting backrowers were already origin regulars, Bartrim made a name for himself that was to continue. The props and bench forwards were laughable, but even then Hohn and Allen were not exactly noobs to origin. This had been a common problem for Queensland for quite some time prior.

But I ask you, was Mal's influence missed in 1995 at all?

Maybe Gilly should have been made captain in 1992.

 

[ANTiLAG]

Except Lockyer

Well of course Darren was going to play more games than effective tackles that he made in his career. Him and Slater made an 'almost apparent' combined effort to lose the RLWC and Lockyer still got MOTM. Near speechless. Personally I think Darren's efforts were greater in achieving the loss than Slater's.

[youtube]Qn0Fdspu_Cs[/youtube]

Watch that entire video then claim Lockyer should be an immortal.

 

[PaddyBoy]

Locky was an obscenely bad defender, still deserves to be an immortal one day.

 

[aqua_duck]

Johns Origin career:
started at halfback - 16 (Dropped in 95 after game 2)
started at hooker - 5 (96 & 97)
started from the bench, and came on to play hooker - 2 (2000. Was left out of the first game completely)

7 out of 23 games played out of position. So that's 30.4% of his Origin career. And that's not going into his test career where he played 2 world cups at hooker.

Going by your idiotic theory Paul Gallen must be not that good since he's regularly picked out of position at rep level?

 

[ANTiLAG]

What I think people like Bobby are trying to dispel is that the Joey of 01GF, 03 and 05 Origin, was not the Joey of the 90's or 00. His regular domination of big games was very short and in no way career long.

If you're going to hand it out for shorter spurts of greatness, Kenny 81-86 comes to mind.

 

[ANTiLAG]

Cameron Smith had to wait for Danny Buderus to become unavailable for Australia to grab the number 9 from him...

Your arguement is as stupid as it gets.

Didn't Smith wrench the jumper from Bedurus? He most certainly never gave it back which is similar.

 

[aqua_duck]

What I think people like Bobby are trying to dispel is that the Joey of 01GF, 03 and 05 Origin, was not the Joey of the 90's or 00. His regular domination of big games was very short and in no way career long.

If you're going to hand it out for shorter spurts of greatness, Kenny 81-86 comes to mind.

So Joey of the 90's wasn't all that in other words? Well his back to back Dally M medals from 98 and 99 and his Golden boot award from 99 wouldn't suggest he was a damn good player in the 90's.......