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In praise of The Greatest

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
108,331
" He deleted all his posts (so I hear) before he left."
I understand that when someone makes the decision to depart, they are given an option to delete all their posts automatically - I believeits like a check box and its within the Nine Msn program. I have never had the chance to test it out myself but that seems to be what happened to Warlock's posts. He simply clicked the box to scrub all posts.

Last night, Iwas looking atold threads from early in the year and I happened across some of Warlock's old posts. Theywere also deleted as well(as a manager, I can still see the name of the original poster).

I doubt if anyone would bother to go that far back and through every single post and delete them individually... and I can assure you that no manager would have bothered either.
 

Ryback

Juniors
Messages
44
I'm no huge boxing fan if the definition of a "huge boxing fan"is the extent of knowledge some on this thread discussion displayed, but I've always been facinated by Rocky Marciano ever since I heard about three years ago that he went through his career without a loss. I don't mind a good fight but won't miss a pub night for one.
Cassius Clay was awesome. Muhammad Ali never interested me one bit.
Didn't know toomuch about Joe Louis...until I read this whole thread. Seemed like a very good boxer and gentleman.
Frazier was a warrior.
Here's a little more on Rocky and what some said:

What boxers and sports writers said of Marciano's punching power:
Joe Louis, knocked out by Rocky in the 8th round, said of Marciano, "It hurt to bump into him....He hits harder than Max Schmeling...this kid is tough enough to beat anyone." He also said, "The Rock didn't know too much about the boxing book, but it wasn't a book he hit me with. It was a whole library of bone crushers."

First and foremost, Marciano was tough! A man who seemed impervious to pain or the fear of pain. Who could take and ignore the hard punches of his opponents.
"If Marciano's jaw isn't made of iron, it's at least made of poured concrete." Arthur Daley
"I can't afford to slip up even once. I've got to win every time out. And I can do it." Marciano to sportswriter after his knockout of Rex Layne.
Jersey Joe Walcott, who lost his title to Marciano in a 13th round KO and a rematch in a 1st round KO, was asked who hit harder, Joe Louis or Rocky Marciano. "Joe could take you out with combinations...Marciano was a one-punch artist. He threw every punch like you throw a baseball, as hard as he could. I have to say, with all respect to Joe, Marciano hit harder."

Archie Moore (KO'd in 9th), when asked by reporters which of Marciano's punches hurt him, said, "Man they all hurt." He also said, "After a fight with Marciano, it felt like you had been beat all over the upper body with a blackjack or hit with rocks." --"He could hurt you, sure, but it was the quantity of his punches. He just had more stamina than anyone else in those days. He was like a bull with gloves."

Floyd Patterson, who knocked out Moore for Rocky's vacated title said, "In the ring he looked sloppy and awkward sometimes, but that was deceptive because he was terribly strong, could punch and take a punch...Jersey Joe Walcott had made him miss for twelve rounds and then Rocky took his title away in the thirteenth. Ezzard Charles seemed to be making him look bad, but Rocky busted up his face something horrible...I respected Marciano"

Jack Dempsey, interviewed in the 1953 fall edition of Fight magazine said, "What everyone forgets is that Marciano can punch harder with a right hand than any modern-day heavyweight. In his first fight with Walcott, Rocky needed only one blow to win the title. The power in his right scrambled Jersey Joe's brains at Chicago." -- "I've scored my share of knockouts along the way, but more often than not my opponents got up after being knocked down and had to be knocked down repeatedly. The same is true of Joe Louis. But Marciano needs only one solid smash and it's all over. That's why I say Rocky Marciano is the hardest-hitting heavyweight champion I have seen."

Carmine Basilio "Today he’d look like a midget against some of those heavyweights around, but he’d clobber them all. A great fighter, very tough."
Lastarza.jpg
Roland LaStarza "I would throw a hard punch, then he would throw a hard punch. The difference was that Rocky would throw 10 more. He just never stopped throwing punches."

Harry "Kid" Matthews "He was a great puncher, one of the best of all-time. He just threw one punch after another, and all of them were hard."

Jack Hurley, Harry "Kid" Matthew's manager, "I never saw a fighter so confident, so sure every punch he was throwing was the knockout."

Tommy Loughran (Light heavyweight champion 1927-29) "He is great by accident, or maybe instinct. He moves in and belts you, and wallops you, and moves away, and all by instinct. Then Rocky comes up with that hook, and his whole body is behind it. You have to class him with Jack Dempsey. When the fight started, Dempsey had only one thought-to knock you out. That's Marciano's instinct."

"Marciano's gloved fists broke blood vessels and bones in LaStarza's arms and elbows. First the arms grew heavy, then they began to ache awfully, then they grew numb. As the relentless battle wore on, LaStarza found it harder and harder to raise his arms, much less jab with them or punch with them. His hands lowered, his defense dissipated, Marciano began to punish him about the head. LaStarza began to take a terrible beating." Bill Libby, "The Story of a Champion", 1971.
Fred Brown said, "He hits you with something that looks like a little tap to the crowd, but the guy who gets it shakes right down to his legs."

"A right hand that registered nine on the Richter scale." Red Smith, New York Times sports columnist.
"He's the hardest hitting fighter I've ever seen. After one of his knockouts, I never take my eye off his victims till they move again." Bill Corum, sports writer.
"Rocky Marciano was probably the most ferocious man ever to win the title, and the most relentless." Ebony magazine.
"Why? His man's not that tall." Bugs Baer's reply when Don Cockell's manager requested a 20 foot ring instead of 16 foot.
"Louis is faster with a barrage of punches, but Rocky hurts more with one punch than Joe did with four. Rocky hurts you every time he connects." Response to a reporter from a sparring partner of both Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano.
"Dan, I can still feel his punches. He kept punching me in the upper arms until I could no longer hold them up to defend or throw punches". Phil Muscato, 5th round KO victim of Rocky, to his nephew Dan, many years after his fight with Marciano.(Thanks to Dan Muscato).
"He was chastised by the press every time he fought as being a Neanderthal, no concept of boxing, who was going to get beat as soon as he got in with someone who could box, who was gonna make him look silly…It took a long time for the boxing scribes to realize they were in the presence of sheer power." Ferdie Pacheco
"And when you got in there with him, you got the feeling, ‘I gotta kill this guy to win; he’s not gonna stop coming.’ No matter what happens…nose gets spit in two, he’s coming…his eyes are fallin’ apart, he’s comin’..he just keeps on comin’. And, it scared half the guys half to death." Ferdie Pacheco
"Marciano was one of those people who really didn’t care how much he got hit, so jabbing him was easy. He’d almost, if you missed a jab…he’d apologize, ‘Scuze me, throw that again. I’ll see if I can get my face in the middle there.’...He was probably the greatest example of a guy who’s a battering ram and is willing to get in and take any kind of punishment to deliver his own." Ferdie Pacheco
"Marciano must be made of iron." Felix Bocchicchio, Walcott's manager. (Look magazine, Jan. 1953)
"It was hard to tell if Rocky was ever in trouble, because hitting him was like hitting a stone wall. If he was ever hurt, he didn't show it." Referee Ruby Goldstein after the Marciano/Louis fignt.
"He came at him fast with an assortment of punches, and he hit Rocky with a lot of combinations where he'd put together five or six punches in a row. Most fighters would grab on and wait for their heads to clear after being hit by a good combination. But this is where Marciano was a discouraging-type fighter. After a fighter hit him with some of his best punches, Rocky would come chasing right after him, back him up against the ropes, and throw seven or eight punches of his own." Referee Goldstein after the first Marciano/Charles fignt.

"He trained himself down to that fine condition, he trained himself fanatically, because that type of fighter...has to be able to take the punishment early in the fight while the other fighter is fresh, until he starts to wade through the punches and wear his opponent down. It's the toughest kind of fighter to be and that's why there've been so few great fighters in the heavyweight division of that kind. Dempsey, Marciano, Frazier, all of a type. Indomitable will, get knocked down, get up, keep coming on until they just impose themselves on their opponents no matter who they were." Larry Merchant on Marciano.
A fighter must believe he will win the fight. Many fighters talk like they expect to win, but often what they say and what they really believe are two different things. Rocky always felt he could beat whoever he fought. "He goes in for a fight the way I go in for a beer." Charlie Goldman.
"Well, he'll have to prove it to me. I do understand that he is a confident man and I guess most of the challengers have been that way, also." Marciano to reporter on Archie Moore's saying he expected to beat Rocky.
"I just think that in my prime, I could have fought with anybody alive." Rocky in retirement.
"Before a big fight, Marciano is as nervous as a fire hydrant." Life Magazine,1952.
"I never saw a fighter so confident, so sure every punch he was throwing was the knockout." Jack Hurley, Harry "Kid" Matthew's manager
"If I said I could beat Patterson, you'd think I was bragging. If I said I couldn't, I'd be lying." Rocky to a group of high school kids about then champ Floyd Patterson
Rocky's power punching. Suffice it to say, he hit VERY hard! His punches started from his toes, traveled up his tree-stump legs, and exploded from his short, powerful arms.

Recently(10/7/97), on Tuesday Night Fights this was said as Omar Shieka crumpled his opponent with bruising shots: "You see the way he's putting power into his punches? That's how Mike Tyson and Rocky Marciano hit!

A lot of fighters can't do that. Some things you can teach in the gym and some you have to have naturally." Sean O'Grady
It is doubtful Rocky ever heard the phrase, but he surely had it. That relentless attack on the oposition, never backing down, never lettng them control the fight, coming at them like a hungry tiger. There could not have been any more agressive fighter than Marciano, since every one of his fights had him constantly advancing,swinging from every angle, asking no quarter and giving none. Like Dempsey in his early fights, Rocky was a mauling, battering natural force.
"Marciano was an ultra agressive fighter." Joe Frazier
"The bell would ring he'd be on you. The bell ring he'd stop. The bell would ring again and he'd be right back on you. He was relentless." George Foreman
"I believe the Rock could have beaten anybody because of his heart and courage, not to mention his overhand right", Mike Vorgang


 

Warlock

Juniors
Messages
2
I'll be man enough to admit I still read these boards. I just don't contribute.
People seem to want to know why I left:Why I deleted my posts: How I deleted my posts.
How I deleted all my posts: You don't get that option that Willow mentioned. At least I didn't. When you click on your own or someone elses member name, it displays their last three or four most recent posts. Well I would just click on my user name and click on the individual messages that was displayed under that threadand delete them. I would then come back to my user name and so-on and so-on until all was deleted. It took all of about 15mins max. Big deal! No sweat off my back.
Why I deleted my posts: They were my posts and I did what I wanted. Simple. Why would I give a shit about how a thread looks if I'm not around anymore to post? I didn't thenand I don't now!
Why I left: There were a number of reason. Four to be exact. I won't say the two main that made up my mind because I don't want to make anyone look bad or the forumlook like it's going south slowly.I'm not obligated to tell anyone here why. And I won't. I will say this but.I had my reasons and felt this place was no longer my taste, so departed without looking back. No regrets whatso-ever.I refused to hang around somewhere where I wasn no longer welcome. Don't play with my intelligence and tell me otherwise. People in adminatrative positions were ridiculing me and I didn't like it. Great way to treat your members? I think not!This forum is bigger than one poster or ten, so stop posting and saying people want me to come back. One poster will not make a difference. I don't think so anyway.And stop pretending like anyone cares about me. Apart from Dave, nobody else knows me here so put a halt to your bullshit cyber emotions. I feel like puking!
I can still read posts by the elite posters here by not being a member. Posters like Cryptic Messenger, Atilla, Javaman, C-Steve, bender, Gav,ozbash, Vertigo, Raging Bulldog, fanballer, legend and Mystery Man. I just cannot post my opinion to their excellent quality posts. I don't really care. As long as I still see their replies.
I miss posting and interacting at times...but I will survive.
Good luck to the forum. Thank your blessing for those posters who make this place what it is. Look after them. Or they may just say "f**k it" likeI did.
Goodbye!
W'lock.

 

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
108,331
"You don't get that option that Willow mentioned. "
I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. Having never rushed off and removed myself from a forum before, I wouldn't know... therefore I accept your higher experience in this procedure. I was just trying to supply some logical reasoning as to why anyone would go through months of posts to make deletions.

I don't follow the rest of it... everyone here has made every effort to make you feel welcomed... sure, there's been disagreements butso what?I guessthere comes a time when eventhe greatest egos must move on.

 
Messages
286
You do what you like big fella.
Like Willow said, you are welcome here and many have stated that. One has even apologised for his actions towards you. What more were you expecting bud?
I would have liked to have seen you back here because you added colour and spark to this place, but....I will survive.
Thanks for the cameo appearence. I kind of understand what you were getting at.
Good luck to you mate and looked after yourself and yours:)
Raging Bulldog
 
C

CanadianSteve

Guest
Well, I'm honoured to be on Warlock's list of "elite posters". But I don't get why he's upset enough to leave. It's only a discussion forum, man. Come back.

Interesting posts about the Rock. I have always thought he benefitted by being in an era where there weren't as many quality heavyweights as in Ali's era. I have said before, maybe in this thread, that I see him as a similar fighter to Joe Frazier, though I can't picture him being any tougher or harder-hitting than Joe. But I feel I have some valid opinions about the Ali era because I saw a lot of those fights. Marciano was before my time so I can't be as certain (though that doesn't stop Javaman:)) about him Maybe he was as hard-hitting as some of the quotes above indicate.

I wonder if the Rock showed up to that banquet in Timmins, Ontario (home of singer Shania Twain BTW) in jeans and a t-shirt. I read once that he used to do that so the organizers would take him out and buy him a suit.
 
Messages
84
The Prong don't get this guy

Why I left: There were a number of reason. Four to be exact. I won't say the two main that made up my mind because I don't want to make anyone look bad or the forumlook like it's going south slowly.

The Prong wonders why you say you don't wanna make the forum look bad but then go on to say it's heading South.Makes perfect sense...not

I'm not obligated to tell anyone here why. And I won't.

But you do as evident in the below statements highlighted in red.

I will say this but.I had my reasons and felt this place was no longer my taste, so departed without looking back. No regrets whatso-ever.I refused to hang around somewhere where I wasn no longer welcome. Don't play with my intelligence and tell me otherwise. People in adminatrative positions were ridiculing me and I didn't like it.

The Prong also recalls you doing a fair bit of ridiculing but can't remember if it was in retaliation or if you were the instigator as you have removed your posts.You can't have it both ways Mr.

I can still read posts by the elite posters here by not being a member. Posters like Cryptic Messenger, Atilla, Javaman, C-Steve, bender, Gav,ozbash, Vertigo, Raging Bulldog, fanballer, legend and Mystery Man. I just cannot post my opinion to their excellent quality posts. I don't really care. As long as I still see their replies.
The Prong thinks that you have pretty much insulted most members here in the above statement.Whilst The Prong enjoys reading some posters more than others he would not name them or say they are an 'elite' group as it would clearly be a derogatory statement about ALL other members various contributions. I miss posting and interacting at times...but I will survive. The Prongwould hope so as there is much more to life.
Good luck to the forum. Thank your blessing for those posters who make this place what it is. Look after them. Or they may just say "f**k it" likeI did. You wanted people to look after you?
The Prong needs no such help.The Prong can take care of himself and from hanging around this and other forums in his time has gathered that most members can.Seems you are an exception to the rule.

 
C

CanadianSteve

Guest
I should clarify that I don't think I'm an elite poster; there are many exceptional posters here and I'm just happy to hang around.
 

imported_Outlaw

Juniors
Messages
511
Prong: Keep your bullshit to yourself mate. I don't think many want to hear it.
The guy posted his views and left. Why not let it be?
Stop your nittpicking of his commentsand senseless remarks to yourself. This great thread is just trying to get back on its feet after severe damage. Why not let it get back to the original topic? Ryback has added new life to it with his most recent postings, so let's concentrate on them.
Grow up mate!
Please continue boxing fans. There is no point in picking at Warlock's comments. It's just going to shift this thread from its topic again.
 
B

bender

Guest
I stole this post from another forum but i thought it might be relevant here. Sorry about the length. Ali Record <hr align=right size=0> Cassius Clay was born in Louisville, Kentucky in 1942. He started boxing at
the age of twelve. By 1960, when he turned professional, he had an amateur
record of 108 and 8 with two national golden glove and AAU titles, and a gold
medal in the Olympics as a light heavyweight. The 200 lb six feet three inch
fighter had extremely fast hands with even faster feet. He fought the aging
Archie Moore, and easily scored a fourth round knockout.

In 1963, with Liston as champion, boxing experts ranked the fighters as
Patterson number one followed by Clay and then Doug Jones. In 1962 Jones had
lost a unanimous decision to light heavyweight Harold Johnson.

On March 13, 1963 in Madison Square Garden, Clay won a close decision over
Doug Jones. Neither fighter looked good. But after Patterson lost his second
fight to Listen, Clay appeared to be the best choice to fight Liston.

February 25, 1964 at Convention Hall in Miami Beach: The 218 lb Liston fought
the 210 lb Clay. Liston was a 10 to 1 favorite even though he had fought less
than six rounds in three years and was probably older than his listed age of
32. In the first two rounds Clay would jab, land a few combinations and move
away from the forward moving, much slower champion. People couldn't believe
that Clay could hit Liston so easily. In the third and fourth rounds Clay was
able to get in some hard shots to Liston's head that had Sonny moving
backwards. In the fifth round, Clay became partially blinded from some of the
caustic used to cover Liston's cuts. Clay was able to avoid Liston in that
round with his foot speed.
In the sixth round, with his eyes now clear, Clay now fighting flat-footed and
landing combinations, had the champion in full retreat. Liston, sitting in
his corner expressionless at the start of the seventh round, did not get up.
The fight was over. Cassius Clay, who changed his name to Muhammad Ali, was
the new heavyweight champion of the world.

May 25, 1965 in Lewiston, Maine: Ali fought Liston for the second time. As
in their first fight, Liston was pressing the attack while Ali moved and
countered. While still in the first round, Ali, while moving back, caught
Sonny with a chopping right to the head. Most people at the fight claimed
they did not see the punch. Films do show that it was a punch and that
Liston's head did move back from the blow. But it was clearly not a knockout
punch. To the surprise of all, Liston went down. Ali stood over the fallen
ex-champion shouting, "Get up, nobody is going to believe this". The
referee, old Jersey Joe Walcott, was trying to pick up the count and get the
dancing Ali to go to a neutral corner. Meanwhile, Liston was rolling around
the canvas. It was a circus. Finally Liston got up. Walcott, who at that
moment, was standing between the fighters, went over to the time keeper. The
fighters started to fight again with Ali the aggressor. After about eight
seconds, Walcott stepped between them again and declared Ali the winner.

November 22, 1965 in Las Vegas: Ali beat Patterson with a TKO in 12th round.
This was a very one-sided fight against the ex-champion. Patterson's hand
speed was equal to that of Ali's, but Floyd had very little foot speed. This
had been abundantly clear in his two pathetic showings against Sonny Liston.

March 29, 1966 in Toronto: Ali decisioned Canadian, George Chuvalo. Chuvalo,
whose record was 34-11-2, fought a game fight. While never retreating, he
took a beating. His best round was the third, where at one point the prodding
challenger forced the champion into a corner. For about 15 seconds George
threw a number of punches, but most blows fell on Ali's arms and shoulders.
Throughout the fight, Chuvalo landed a few good shorts, mostly to the body.
Ali meanwhile avoided most of the blows while moving in and out and scoring
punches in bunches to the face. The bout ended with Ali not hurt or marked,
while Chuvalo, not in any danger of being knocked out, was bleeding from
several cuts around his eyes. The decision was unanimous, with scoring of 73-
63, 74-63, and 74-62.

George was Ali's first opponent since Doug Jones in March 13, 1963 to go the
distance against the champion. Ali called Chuvalo his toughest opponent yet.
"He took my best shots and kept coming."

May 21, 1966 in London: Ali defended Heavyweight Crown against England's
Henry Cooper. This was London's first heavyweight championship fight in 58
years. The 32 year old challenger had a 32-11-1 record and a good left hook.
The two fighters fought previously in 1963 when Cooper almost beat the then
Cassius Clay by knocking Clay down with a solid left hook in the 4th round.
The bell and a cut glove, which delayed starting the next round, may have
prevented Clay from being knocked out.
In this 1966 fight, Ali seemed to pace himself for the first five rounds. He
pretty much kept skipping around and moved counter clockwise against the much
slower challenger. Near the end of the second round, Henry landed a hard two
left hand combination to the champion's head. This was the high mark for the
challenger. While he did land several more solid shots, none were in
combination, and none appeared to have any affect on Ali. Cooper received
several warnings from the referee for hitting low, and Ali received several
warnings for pushing and holding. Ali was content in these rounds to stick
with short two punch combinations and then avoid most of Cooper's blows.

Things changed quickly in the sixth round. Ali turned tiger. He quickly
pressured Henry into a corner and landed a stiff right-left combination to
Cooper's head. This caused an immediate flow of a large amount of blood from
above the challenger's left eye. The referee stopped the fight, examined the
cut, and then let the fight continue. Ali then begin peppering the eye with
a number of long left jobs which increased the bleeding. The referee stopped
the fight giving Ali a TKO.

August 6, 1966 in London: Ali fought England's Brian London who had a 35-12
record. Ali toyed with the very slow challenger for the first two rounds.
Midway in the third round, Ali with a series of eight or nine punches in
succession, forced his opponent into a corner. He then landed a hard left-
right combination to the head that caused Brian to sink to the canvas and be
counted out. After the fight Ali announced he would fight one opponent a
month until he was called into military service.
September 10, 1966 in Frankfurt Germany: Ali, a ten to one favorite, defended
title against Germany's 28 year old, 194 lb, Karl Mildenberger. For the first
four rounds the challenger gave Ali major problems. The left handed fighter
landed a number of hard lefts to Ali's head and body. But starting in the
fifth round, Ali was able to land with his right hand to the German's head.
Just before the round ended Ali crashed a right cross to the head that
floored the challenger. From this point on it was Ali who effectively landed
hard rights to his opponents face. Karl had problems seeing from cuts after
the seventh round.

Karl was floored with a left hook in round eight, and for the third time from
a right in the closing seconds of round ten. The referee stopped the fight
in the 12th round as Karl was taking major punishment, and was about to go
down again. After the fight, Ali claimed that the German was is toughest
title defense so far, and his opponent was hard to get to and had a good punch.

November 14, 1966 in Houston Astrodome: Ali, a five to one favorite,
defended against the muscular 33 year old Cleveland Williams. A crowd of
35,460 saw this fight. A record attendance for a fight under a roof.
Williams had a record of 65 and five with 51 KO's. He had lost previously to
Sonny Liston, but had handed out punishment before being KOed.

Ali came out dancing in round one. A hard combination by Ali late in the
round seemed to daze and confuse the challenger. With one minute remaining in
round two, Ali scored with a jolting left that floored Williams. He got up,
and with 46 seconds to go, the challenger was floored again. He got up and as
the round was ending, Ali knocked Williams down for the third time with a left
hook. The bell prevented Williams from being counted out.

Ali came out fast in round three and immediately started landing effectively.
After less than a minute gone, a right cross downed Williams for the forth
time. The challenger gamely beat the count, but was on queer street. The
referee rightfully stopped the slaughter.
February 6, 1967 in Houston: Ali defended against the tall and strong Ernie
Terrell. Ali won a hard but unanimous fifteen round decision. In the fight,
Terrell used an effective long left jab that caused blood to come from the
champion's nose. The challenger ended up with a left eye that was half
closed.

Ali, at this time in history, was appealing his 1-A draft status, claiming he
was a Muslim minister.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
March 22, 1967 in New York's Madison Square Garden: Ali, 25, defended title
against 34 year old Zoro Folley. Folley looked good in the first two rounds,
as he was able land most of the heavy blows against the champion, who took the
blows without hardly a flinch. Ali didn't do much fighting until the third
round. In the forth, Ali open up with a number of quick punches leading up to
a crisp left-right combination that knocked Folley down. He laid on his
stomach for a few seconds, then rose weakly. The challenger quickly cleared
his head and fought back gamely, and scored with a solid right that drove Ali
to the ropes.

But from the fifth round on it was all Ali. He landed punches in bunches
while receiving little in return. In the seventh round, Zoro was in bad shape
with a knot under his left eye and blood flowing from his nose. As the
onslaught continued, the challenger tired and at 1:48 into the round, the
fight ended. A right to the head by Ali knocked Zoro down prone on his
stomach, he got to his feet at seven, but fell back to his knees as the
referee counted ten. Going into the last round, two officials had the fight
4-2, Ali. The other official had it even.

April 28, 1967: Title was stripped from Ali by WBA and New York State
Athletic Commission for refusing to join the military. Ali had fought and
clearly beaten the best fighters in the world as Jeffries, Louis, and Marciano
had done ahead of him.

February 16, 1970 in New York: Joe Frazier, an Olympic heavyweight gold medal
winner, KOed Jimmy Elis and became the heavyweight champion. This was after
a series of elimination bouts of the best fighters. Patterson had lost a
close decision to Elis in Sweden.

November 18, 1970 in Detroit: Frazier, 209 lb, defended heavyweight title
against light heavyweight champion Bob Foster. The six feet three inch
stringbean fighter weighed 188 lb, but appeared much lighter against the
stockily built Frazier. Round one was even with both fighters landing
stinging jabs. Round two hardly started when Frazier floored the challenger
with a jarring left hook to the jaw. Foster got up but was quickly tagged
with another left, and this time he was counted out laying on his back.

After Frazier's previous fight in February with Elis, he broke a bone in his
hand during a night club act. During the layoff, he put on weight and had to
loose 30 lbs before the Foster match.

March 8, 1971 in New York: Frazier won a fifteen round decision against Ali,
who appeared to have slowed down somewhat after his forced layoff from boxing.
Ali was knocked down in the 15th from a left hook to the jaw. Many thought
Ali looked good in his two previous tune up bouts: a third round KO of Jerry
Quarry, and a 15 round KO of Oscar Bonavena.
January 15, 1972 in New Orleans: Frazier TKOs Terry Daniels in 4th round.
ÄÄÄÄ

May 25, 1972 in Omaha: Frazier TKOs Ron Stander in 4th round.
January 22, 1973 In Kingston: Frazier defended his title against George
Foreman who had been another heavyweight Olympic medal winner. Foreman
easily won the match, knocking Frazier out in the second round. Foreman, who
looked awesome, was now the world champion.

In a non-title match on March 31, 1973, Ali fought the lightly regarded Ken
Norton. To the surprise of many, Norton won the twelve round match by a
decision. During the match Ali had his jaw broken. At this time the best
four fighters in the world were Foreman, Frazier, Ali, and now Ken Norton.

September 1, 1973 in Tokyo: Foreman defends his title for the first time
against "King" Roman. This was the first ever heavyweight title bout in
Japan. Foreman had a 22 lb weight and a six inch reach advantage against the
fighter from Puerto Rico who was not ranked in the top ten. Roman started the
round by weaving to left and right. The first punch Foreman threw was a wild
left that missed the head of his opponent. Following this, Foreman shook
Roman by landing a right to the his rib cage. Another right to the body and
the "King" when down. He got up, but a left and a right to the body forced
him into the ropes. Another two punch combination to the body by the
champion, and Roman went down again. He got up again but was pushed against
the ropes, and was KOed with a right uppercut to the jaw.

Another non-title match was held between Ali and Norton on September 10, 1973
in Inglewood, California. Ali won a very close split decision. This kept
both fighters in line to challenge the champion.

In another non-title match, on January 20, 1974, the second Frazier Ali fight
was held at the Garden. Ali won a unanimous twelve round decision. Frazier's
blows seemed to have lost some of their power. He couldn't come near to
putting Ali away.
March 26, 1974 in Caracas, Venezuela: Foreman KOed Ken Norton in the second
round. The champion beat Norton as easily as he had beaten Frazier. It was
rumored that Foreman avoided fighting in America because he had previously
sold more than 100% of himself to investors. He thus avoided U.S. court
orders.
October 30, 1974 in Zaire: George Foreman, 26 years old, 220 lbs, defended
his title against Muhammad Ali, 32 years old, 216 lbs at 3AM. It was
unbearably hot and humid. Foreman was a heavy favorite. Even some of Ali's
handlers thought he would loose. But Foreman had not fought a fight lasting
more than two rounds in four years.

Round one: Ali, dancing most of this round, was able to hand a number of
combinations to Foreman's head. Many of these started with right leads.
Foreman, always the aggressor, missed most of his punches. He was only able to
land one hard left hook to Ali's head with no noticeable affect.

Round two: In this round Ali let Foreman push him against the ropes, and
then, to the surprise to everyone, continued to fight from the ropes for most
of the rest of the match. Foreman, continuing to press the attack, was never
able to hit Ali with any consistency. Most of his punches, especially the
harder ones, either missed or were blocked by Ali who kept covering up and
tying up Foreman when he could. Foreman did land about four hard hooks with
both hands to the body in this round. George could not land any straight
punches, so he resorted to mostly round house lefts and rights to get around
Ali's gloves and arms. Meanwhile, during this round as Foreman was working
from the outside, Ali was scoring on a number of sharp straight two and three
punch combinations to the head. Ali clearly won round two.

Round three: The first two minutes were a continuation of what happened in
round two. Ali was landing many more clean shorts. With 55 seconds
remaining, Foreman lands two hard rights to the body and one to the head of
Ali. Ali fought back with three, two punch combinations to Foreman's head.
This was the best action of the fight. Foreman appeared tired and unsteady on
his feet as he returned to his corner.

Round four: For the first two minutes of this round Foreman was clearly
tired. While still the aggressor, many of his blows were more pawing than
punching. Ali continued to land a number of quick, sharp jabs and two punch
combinations to the head of Foreman. As the round wound down, Foreman appeared
to get his second wind, and started to throw many hard shots mostly to the
body. A number of these did land solidly. George ended the round appearing
strong.

Round five: Foreman continued strong for the first part of this round. But
now he had puffing around his right eye. With 40 seconds remaining in the
round, Ali initiated a series of about 20 punches of which most landed in
Foreman's face. These were quick, hard, straight, two punches at a time,
including a very hard right to the side of Foreman's head. A dramatic round
for Ali.

Round six: Early in the round, Ali continued to score to George's head. Many
straight hard left jabs. Foreman was now throwing no hard punches. His right
eye was partially closed. He now had trouble hitting Ali with anything. Late
in the round, Ali scored on another series of left jabs, not hard, but many in
number. Foreman was very tired.

Round seven: Ali opened this round by leaning against the ropes without even
waiting for Foreman to attack. In the middle of the round, Ali was again able
to connect to Foreman's head with a series of stiff punches. But this time,
with less than one minute remaining, Foreman fought back. He started throwing
hard punches, landing several hooks to the body, and one right uppercut to the
jaw of Ali. George finished strong.

Round eight: Ali started the round by landing a large number of mostly stiff
left jabs to Foreman's jaw. With over two minutes remaining Foreman landed a
hard left hook to Ali's jaw and followed this up with many hard hooks to the
body with both hands. Some of these were clean shots. With 20 seconds
remaining, Ali landed a hard straight right to Foreman's jaw. As George
lunged into the ropes he received another right to the head. Back away from
the ropes, Ali landed a quick four punch combination, ending with a right hook
that landed flush on the jaw of the champion. Foreman, spinning off balance,
went down on his shoulder and ended up with his back on the canvas. He was
regaining his feet has he was counted out.
Ali became the second heavyweight to regain the world title.
 
B

bender

Guest
March 24, 1975 in Cleveland: Ali defended against liquor salesman Chuck
Wepner. The challenger looked much older than his 35 years. The first four
rounds were close as Ali apparently didn't take this fight seriously. Wepner
hit Ali several times in the back of the head and Ali returned the favor. The
referee twice went to the corners between rounds to issue warnings to the
fighters.

By the seventh round Wepner was bleeding from a cut above his left eye as Ali
was taking control. Chuck had lost seven previous fights due to cuts. In
round nine Ali tripped over Wepner's foot retreating from a right to the body.
The referee called it a knockdown and gave Ali an eight count.

Up to this point Ali had been content to use mostly his left jab, but now as
the fight was continuing, he switched to combinations with both hands. He hit
his opponent with a lot of good, crisp combinations. But Wepner, now clearly
losing the fight, kept coming. In the 15th round, Ali caught Wepner with a
four punch combination to the head that had his opponent reeling like a drunk.
One more hard right floored Wepner. As the count reached eight the referee
stopped the fight with only 15 seconds remaining.

As he was declared the winner Ali himself fell to the canvass. He appeared
very groggy. In the dressing room after the fight, his trainer Angelo Dundee
said Ali was exhausted. Going into the 15th round the three officials had
Ali ahead 135-128, 136-129, and 138-129.

This same night in Madison Square Garden, Ken Norton stopped Jerry Quarry in
the fifth round. This pretty much eliminated Quarry from any future title
hopes.
May 16, 1975 in Las Vegas: Ali defended against the hard hitting Ron Lyles.
Ali was such a prohibitive favorite for this match that there was no betting
line. Ron, whose record was 31-2-1, had previously lost to Jerry Quarry. It
was a very tough and close fight from the first round. Lyle was very smart in
picking the right spots where he wanted to fight. He conserved his energy the
best he could, trying to expend energy only when needed. He would not be
lured into following Ali to the ropes for the champions "rope a dope". He
would stay in the center of the ring and make Ali come to him. This is not to
say that it was a dull fight. Ron could hit hard, and did, especially with
his very good right hand.

Ali had predicted the he would KO Lyle in the eighth round, and he tried very
hard to do it. In this round he hurt the challenger twice. The first was a
five punch combination to the head and the second was a sharp left-right to
the head shortly before the bell.

In rounds nine and ten, Ali looked tired and Lyle was clearly the aggressor,
and was scoring effectively. But things quickly changed in the 11th round.
The champion, whose energy had been restored, suddenly took command from the
apparently exhausted challenger. Ali must have connected on 35 shots to the
head of Lyle while receiving very little in return. Landing at will he had
his opponent helpless in a neutral corner when the referee stopped the bout.
Going into the 11th round, one judge had the fight even and the other two
judges had Ron Lyle ahead. So, it had been a very hard fight for Ali, indeed.

July 1, 1975 in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia: Ali defended against the 25 year old,
230 lb European champion from Britain, Joe Burger. Ali at 33 years of age and
225 lbs was in remarkably good shape. He needed it because the fight went the
full 15 rounds in intense heat. Ali started fighting flat-footed, then later
changed to his familiar stick and dance. By round eleven Burger was out of
steam, but he still continued gamely.

In the 13th round, Ali had a slight cut above his left eye. The champion
clearly was much the better fighter in the later portions of the fight and
obtained a unanimous decision.

October 1, 1975 in Manila: Ali and Joe Frazier met for the third and last
time. The "Thrilla in Manila" was one of the hardest fought fights in recent
history. The 33 year old Ali and the 31 year old Frazier both took severe
punishment. Both were probably never quite the same fighters afterwards. In
the early rounds, Ali landed many hard combinations that almost ended the
fight several times. In the middle rounds, Frazier came back. His constant
attacking style was taking its toll on Ali. After the 11th round, both
fighters, particularly Ali, were in serious trouble. They both kept on
fighting, with Ali winning when Frazier did come out for the 14th round.
February 20, 1976 in San Juan: Ali defends against the 29 year old
Belgian Jean-Pierre Coopman. The challenger, with a 24 and 3 record, weighed
20 lbs less than the champ. Ali started the fight dancing and moving in
circles. He increasingly was able to land sharp left jabs to the jaw of
Coopman. By the forth round, Coopman's face was covered with red marks from
Ali's lefts. Ali took most of his opponents blows on his elbows and arms, and
consistently was able to man-handle his lighter opponent.

At this point Ali started fighting flat-footed throwing combinations with both
hands. Still his opponent kept coming forward, but was paying dearly for it.
Ali ended the fight with a KO at 2:46 seconds of round five with a jarring
left right combination to the head.

In the semi-final match Jimmy Young won a unanimous ten round decision against
"King" Roman.
April 30, 1976 in Landover, Md: Ali defends title against Jimmy Young.
Young, a light hitter, but a clever boxer, held his own against the champion.
Ali, who appeared under trained, won most of the early rounds by moving
forward and landing the harder punches. Several times when Young was getting
the worst of it, he would take standing eight counts by leaning his head
outside the ring ropes. Ali seemed confused and frustrated. He wrestled his
opponent a number of times hoping to set him up for a hard punch. He was
never able to do it.

As the match went on, the 230 lb champion slowed down. Too much weight and
too old a body to stay up with Jimmy. Ali did rally in the ninth round, when
he stayed on his toes and landed a large number of stiff left jabs. This was
the champions high water mark. Young turned aggressor in the later rounds and
carried the fight to Ali. In the last three rounds he landed a number of hard
right hand punches to Ali's head. In the 15th round Young landed a hard left-
right combination to the champion's head that had him backing up as the match
ended.

Most ring side fans thought that the title had changed hands. The AP scorer
had Young winning 69 to 66. But the three officials all gave the fight to Ali
70-68, 72-65, and 71-64. Ali said after the fight that he under estimated his
opponent and didn't train hard enough.

May 24, 1976 in Munich: Ali defends against Richard Dunn. The European
champion was 31 years old, 206 lbs, and a British southpaw. Ali 34 years old
and 220 lbs looked very trim. The aggressive Dunn gave Ali problems for a
couple of rounds. Ali solved his opponents southpaw stance by being able to
land many hard, effective overhand rights. In the forth round Ali knocked
Dunn down with a short right. Dunn got up but was knocked down two more times
in the round with more rights. The fifth round was even worse for the
challenger. Another right and down he went. Up again, but then down again
from still another right. Dunn with great courage got up again and staggered
into the ropes. The referee then stopped the fight 2:05 seconds into the
fifth round.

Ali looked in much better shape at 220 lbs than he did three weeks before in
the Jimmy Young fight at 230 lbs.
ÄÄÄÄ

September 28, 1976 in New York: Ali fought the 31 year old ex-marine Ken
Norton for the third time. For the first part of the fight Ali stood flat-
footed with Norton and traded power punches. Ali's famous "rope a dope" that
had worked so well against Foreman, proved ineffective and brought boos from
the crowd. Norton had much the better of it in these rounds, and kept landing
solid punches to Ali's ribs and temple. After six rounds Ali started dancing
and jabbing and started winning the rounds. But this took energy.

In round eleven Norton again took command when Ali quit dancing. The last few
rounds appeared to go Norton's way as the fight went the distance. Ali never
really hurt Norton, but Norton hurt Ali a number of times, especially with hard
rights to the body. Ali, as usual, only went for the head.

Norton and most people at ringside thought he had won. Ali looked dejected as
he went back to his corner. In this close and hard to judge fight, UPI scored
it 8 to 7 Norton. But the people that count, the officials, gave Ali a close
but unanimous decision. Two had it 8-6-1 and the other 8-7. Even though Ali
won the decision he said that he could feel retirement.


In a non title fight in San Juan on March 17, 1977, Jimmy Young decisioned
George Foreman in 12 rounds. What a contrast in styles! One could box but
not hit, the other had dynamite in his gloves but was no boxer. Foreman
chased after the elusive Young for 11 rounds. Foreman couldn't solve Jimmy's
excellent boxing techniques and land a telling blow. Foreman became very
tired by the 12th round, just as he had in the Ali fight.

In the 12th when Foreman pressed Young into a corner, Jimmy launched a series
of six shots to Foreman's head. Foreman reeled back obviously hurt. At this
instant, Young turned tiger, chased after George and landed a quick left-right
to the head and down went Foreman. He got up immediately but the referee held
an eight count. Foreman lasted out this 12th and last round.

The officials gave Young a unanimous decision 118-111, 116-112, and 115-114.
Foreman now had no hope of getting another fight with Ali. Many people think
that Ali wouldn't have fought Foreman again, anyway.

May 16, 1977 in Landover, Md: Ali defended against Alfredo Evangelista. The
22 year old, 209 lb native Uruguyan, living in Spain, had a 16 and 1 record,
but had never fought a ranked heavyweight. The "Spanish Rocky" was not a
skilled fighter, but could take a punch.

Ali, clowning in the first half of the fight, couldn't put the relentless
Alfredo down. Ali scored a large number of solid lefts to the chin of his
opponent, but Alfredo kept coming. The fight went the distance. Ali winning
an easy decision with two officials scoring it 72-64, the other 71-65, all for
Ali.
September 29, 1977 in New York's Madison Square Garden: Ali defends against
the old but very tough Earnie Shavers. Shavers had KOed 52 opponents with 19
occurring in the first round. For the first 12 rounds Ali was pretty much
able to stay away from his old and prodding opponent. Shavers was able to
conserve energy by not following up the several times when it appeared he
had Ali in trouble. In round 13, Ali was shaken when he received four solid
rights to his head, but Shavers wasn't able to follow them with any effective
punches as Ali danced away. Round 14 was similar with Ali in retreat and
Shavers not quick enough to do any real damage.

The last round was by far the best of the match. A real slugfest. With quick
combinations to Shavers' head, Ali forced him into a corner. Shavers was
extremely tired and almost out on his feet. Just when it appeared the fight
was over, Ali was rocked with a looping left hook to his head. This bought
time for Shavers and he was able to finish the round. What for the most part
was a slow fight, with Shavers never able to launch a sustained attach against
the evading champion, ended with real excitement. The officials gave Ali a
unanimous decision. Two gave Ali nine rounds to six, the other ten rounds to
five. A win for Ali, but clearly he was past his prime.


It was now three years since Foreman had lost the title to Ali in Zaire. Ali
had remained champion, although his skills had declined. Foreman only fought
exhibitions in 1975. In 1976, he KOed Ron Lyle in the 4th round and KOed
Frazier in the 5th. But on March 17, 1977 he lost the 12 round decision to
Jimmy Young. He retired after that. How could he have done against Ali in
1977? We will never know.
ÄÄÄÄ

February 15, 1978 in Las Vegas: Ali lost his title to Leon Spinks by a
decision. Spinks, the light heavyweight Olympic champion, had only fought
professional seven times. Spinks, although not a great fighter, was just too
strong and aggressive for the aging Ali, who fought sluggishly.


On November 5, 1977 in Las Vegas: Ken Norton won a close decision over Jimmy
Young. Future events would make this bout significant.

March 18, 1978: WBC strips Spinks of title for signing to fight Ali, rather
that defending against Norton who was judged to be the number one contender.
Norton was given the championship for his victory over Young.

June 10, 1978 in Las Vegas: Larry Holmes decisioned Norton in a very brutal
fight. Each fighter appeared several times to be on the verge of being KOed,
but each time a rally would turn the tide. A very exciting match.

September 15, 1978 in New Orleans: Ali won back the "title" from Spinks in a
close decision. Ali, in better shape than in the first fight, was able to
avoid most of the hard blows thrown from Spinks. Ali now became the first
heavyweight to ever regain the "title" a third time.

Larry Holmes was to be Ali's next opponent. In 1979 he KOed both Mike Weaver and Earnie Shavers.
And we all know Larry the former sparring of Ali KO'd him -
What round?
This record is good for some of the young blokes who get on the ABP - Ali is proclaimed the GREATEST.

 
Messages
4,446
top read mate, pity to see some of the contributors to this thread are longer with us (or dont post regularly)

Off topic a bit, but what price mundine fights green next? I think all the hype about him fighting the champ is just that.....hype! Don King won't allow it unless he gets rights to the man, and the man ain't going to do that

Moffo
 

Infuzer

Juniors
Messages
101
Great thread.
Sorry to drag this from the archived files.
I see there are Rocky Marciano fans on this board. Good heavyweight boxerhe was. Great he was not.
How many here have heard that Rocky Marciano did not go thru his career as a pro boxer undefeated. The rumour is that Marciano lost two or three bouts veryearly on in his careerunder an alias name he used. I don't know how much of this rumour is credible, but many believethere's much truth to it.
Anyone else here this?
Can someone confirm or deny this rumourwith some facts please?
I've always wanted to bury the hatchet on this one.
 

imported_Outlaw

Juniors
Messages
511
Shit Infuzer! :eek:
Talk about the shit hitting the fan....
I haven't ever heard that about Marciano, but I'll tell you what mate, with the boxing knowledge of members here at LWOS, I'm sure someone will clear it up.
Damn! I'm still scratching my head at that one :(
 

El Duque

Bench
Messages
3,845
I've heard this too, but have never seen any evidence that proves it.

He fought under the name Rocky Mack, but supposedly the losses happened when he went back to the amateurs
 

Javaman

Juniors
Messages
76
There is no credibility or truth to that rumour, poster Infuser. It gets a little confusing and the reason for the rumours do look credible on the surface, but it's BS.
I don't have time right now, but I will clear the air on the subject late this evening with the facts you are looking for.
Javaman.

 

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