Is Cleary a dud?

[betcats]

I agree. In fact I think we won the club championship in the prior year - our wooden spoon year. (But so many people allege that we had no pathways, development etc etc before Gould came along).

I believe most fans were baying for Lang's blood at about this stage in 2002. Most who say they could see light at the end of the tunnel are in fact seeing that light retrospectively - you may be one of the few who saw the light when we were at 0-7.

Why, no light now?

We thought we had the pathways, development programs, the academy all built to provide our club with the "young guys coming through and older guys putting in" - but you can't! Where are they - are they in the pipeline

So, what have we spent the last 7 years and $50m doing!

I don't think it is the coach blocking the light. It is because we have been hamstrung. We have bad contracts and the coffers are empty.

The pipeline is certainly there, the pathways are working as they should. Our lower grade sides have had huge amounts of success since 2011 and that success continues. Your bias is overwhelming sometimes.

 

[darkbloom]

The pipeline is certainly there, the pathways are working as they should. Our lower grade sides have had huge amounts of success since 2011 and that success continues. Your bias is overwhelming sometimes.

Yes, you are probably right - and it may be because I am not fully aware of how one determines whether the pipeline is clear and the pathways are working as they should.

Perhaps you can guide me on this to shake up my bias.

There can be doubt that I believe our pipeline and pathways have been working as well - or better - in other periods of the club's history - as they are now. At a cost that didn't require selling off assets.

My knowledge in this area is scant and I am more than willing - in fact keen - to be educated.

 

[betcats]

Yes, you are probably right - and it may be because I am not fully aware of how one determines whether the pipeline is clear and the pathways are working as they should.

Perhaps you can guide me on this to shake up my bias.

There can be doubt that I believe our pipeline and pathways have been working as well - or better - in other periods of the club's history - as they are now. At a cost that didn't require selling off assets.

My knowledge in this area is scant and I am more than willing - in fact keen - to be educated.

I don't know if I am knowledgeable enough to guide you but the results of the lower grades and the production of NRL quality players speaks for itself, a quick glance tells you we have been very successful at every level besides FG, and even the FG results until this season have been adequate. I don't know what else to say, just because things have gone backwards in the NRL squad this year doesn't take away from our success at the lower levels.

 

[The Realist]

Is DarkBloom = Rob Weaver? This has really got me wondering!

 

[darkbloom]

I don't know if I am knowledgeable enough to guide you but the results of the lower grades and the production of NRL quality players speaks for itself, a quick glance tells you we have been very successful at every level besides FG, and even the FG results until this season have been adequate. I don't know what else to say, just because things have gone backwards in the NRL squad this year doesn't take away from our success at the lower levels.

That is has been the case quite a bit throughout our history. I am looking to understand the reasons there is such wide and fervent belief that there has been a huge leap forward by the club. If it is obvious and simple then someone must be able to explain it easily.

I can see the leap from the Elliott era - but that I'm unsure whether for me, that is just an impression formed by the inadequacy of the FG performance.

Anyway, I do admit I have a bias. I have it for a number of reasons for that bias.

But I am also open to convinced that what has spent on football in recent years is reasonable and good value - and a worthwhile cause for liquidating substantial assets.

To me it look like there is a bias held by many the other way and I bias with no inclination to question it or have it questioned. (Not necessarily talking about you Betcats.)

 

[Panther Pete]

Ha ha. I've had a very long, close
connections to,
association with,
and love for the Penrith Panthers.

They have taken a variety of forms.

Often the love has been heartache, sometimes anger but always proud (until recently) and eternal,

The connections have always (until recently) been friendly, open, constructive and reciprocated.

As to the association, there was a moment when it it took the form of employment of a type..

By the way - the "until recently" comment does not necessarily refer to the Gus era - it in fact started well before Gus, The Gus era, to me, is really just a powerful affect of actions and attitudes that had developed a few years before his appointment.

Interesting. Thanks for clearing that up for me...I think.

 

[Panfa]

Ivan definitely is and nathan is heading that way as well ive been impressed with our canterbury cup halfback falls he looks a decent player.

 

[BrotherJim05]

LOL @ Cleary(s)

 

[betcats]

That is has been the case quite a bit throughout our history. I am looking to understand the reasons there is such wide and fervent belief that there has been a huge leap forward by the club. If it is obvious and simple then someone must be able to explain it easily.

I can see the leap from the Elliott era - but that I'm unsure whether for me, that is just an impression formed by the inadequacy of the FG performance.

Anyway, I do admit I have a bias. I have it for a number of reasons for that bias.

But I am also open to convinced that what has spent on football in recent years is reasonable and good value - and a worthwhile cause for liquidating substantial assets.

To me it look like there is a bias held by many the other way and I bias with no inclination to question it or have it questioned. (Not necessarily talking about you Betcats.)

We are all a little bias no doubt. There are others here who follow the juniors a lot more closely and can speak about the football operations with a lot more knowledge than myself.

 

[franklin2323]

We are all a little bias no doubt. There are others here who follow the juniors a lot more closely and can speak about the football operations with a lot more knowledge than myself.

Juniors are flying. They aren't the issue it is choosing who makes the jump which is where we fail big time

 

[darkbloom]

Juniors are flying. They aren't the issue it is choosing who makes the jump which is where we fail big time

This seems to me not too different to most of our history.

So my questions remain - what makes this era so different to other eras in our club? and what is the evidence that justifies the huge investment over the last few years?

 

[The Realist]

Juniors are flying. They aren't the issue it is choosing who makes the jump which is where we fail big time

This 100%. I keep on banging on about this. We could have the largest catchment of the most talented juniors and win the Club Championship every year - but if we FAIL to bring the right ones into the top grade the RIGHT way we are doomed, and not only that - we are wasting our resources for the betterment of other Clubs.

By in large we have had consistently excellent junior results for 20 or more years but have been a failure at either selecting the correct ones or when we do select the right candidates we have not developed them to be capable enough during their time at the Panthers.

We were right to boot Leary and bring in Gus. Gus was right to give Elliot the boot, and also right to emphasise Reserve grade over the U20's fad and bring them back from Windsor (no offense to the Windsor Wolves - I attended quite a few games there). He was right that we need a culture change. But it all went wrong from there on.

He hired Cleary who wanted to instil discipline in a squad that wanted to run itself. Fine. However the first cracks were the departure of Jennings and especially Lewis. I already questioned why is it that Cleary gives these players the boot whilst great coaches such as Bellamy and Bennett can seem to straighten out troubled/maligned players and rejuvenate underperforming talent. But OKAY lets assume the worst and that these guys were beyond reform - it is not like Bellamy and Bennett always succeed, they cut loose players who are too pigheaded, lazy or stupid to be coached by them.

So Gus then starts buying players 'winners' from other clubs - and also underrated prospects. Most of his 'winners hires' are failures - brought in on good money and performing less than their pay grades. Manu, Kite, Soward. The likes of Soward and Segeyero had a good season or two but were either past their best (Soward) or had poor attitude (Seg) so by in large they were a failure.

Cleary also brings in 3 of his boys from the Warriors - Lewis Brown, Taylor and I forgot the other one. These guys were 'Rep' players and whilst servicable for us - they probably did not perform commensurate to their pay.

Gus also buys prospects the Naiquama Brothers (Disaster), Whare - a good buy and Api - a good buy undone by his decision to offload him to keep Seg who'd go on to leave. Peachey was perhaps one of his best punts but even that was somewhat of a double edged sword - Peachey is too good a general footballer but could not find a 'spot' in the starting 13.

Why am I banging on about Gus and his outside recruitment? Well you can't talk about Cleary without Gus. It was Gus's call to bring him in and also you can assume many of the Recruitment and retention decisions were made in consultation with Cleary. His tenure was by in large a failure. Our talented juniors (Coote/Austin) and other players had attitude and discipline problems that resulted in them being moved on. Our players were not disciplined on the field either, they were also injury prone and not that fit. What most don't talk about with our injuries is that we either purchased broken aged players or introduced young and under developed juniors too early or just the 'wrong body types' which is part of the point of what Franklin is on about.

So at the end of the Cleary rebuild - our results were marginally better than the proceeding 4 Elliot years. He is 'tired' - he is too easily stumped, admits defeat and has no fire so Gus rightly fires him - though mysteriously barely a year after giving him an extension. So it is a good decision following a bad decision (extension). Another strike against Gus as a manager, this cost us time and valuable money in the pay out.

Subsequently Grifin is hired. Shit so we replace one ordinary coach with another. Most fans are puzzled but the catch phrase amongst the Panther Cult is "In Gus we Trust". I had little faith but what the hell, I am a supporter - what else can I do another than see how it goes? Griffin take Clearys squad and turns them into a consistent and tough squad. So what do the Griffin years have to do with Cleary? Well Griffin had issues with players Discipline and effort such as Moylan, Soward etc. Wasn't Cleary supposed to have sorted the Leary/Elliot mess along with Gus? Evidently not.

So we have a competitive and talented squad and Griffin gets the boot - ok fine, he isn't the type of coach that can win you a GF - sort of a Brian Smith type except Brian could actually get you to a GF, but I digress.

So we hire Cleary back. In the off season we have these crazy sex tapes come out. Well our culture is obviously 'reformed' since the Gus/Cleary days isn't it. Our players come back unfit and their onfield effort and discipline has gone to shit. During the Griffin days our players were prone to stupid penalties (we were sin binned nearly every game last year) dumb dropped ball and taking unnecessary risks in poor field position. This year under Cleary it is even worse. Many fans question the intelligence of our players and this is where I finally get to my main point -

We Focus too much on skills talent and not anywhere near enough on the temperament, physical body type and Intellect when selecting our first graders.

You look at Bellamy teams and he selects the right body types for positions. He famously left the talented young and lanky Inglis at fullback till he was sure he was durable and experienced enough for the 'front line'. Smith, Cronk, and to a lesser extent Slater were all highly durable players, and all of them had excellent Temperament on and off the field. He always selects SPEED on his wings, not nuggetty short and slow metre eaters.

The Storm are our exact opposite. They have little in the way of juniors but always select and develop good players on and off the field. They have sustained success and we have sustained failure and underachieving.

If we were to select the right type of players and put them through the right channels of development there is no reason why we could not become a super club. Most of our intelligent fans realise this and this is why they are often the most frustrated. The potential is there and it is being completely squandered and the buck stops with the management.

 

[Panfas]

F**king spot on Realist

 

[Panfas]

Panthers this year can be summed up in 3 words:

small
slow
dumb

 

[Thirsty Panther]

This 100%. I keep on banging on about this. We could have the largest catchment of the most talented juniors and win the Club Championship every year - but if we FAIL to bring the right ones into the top grade the RIGHT way we are doomed, and not only that - we are wasting our resources for the betterment of other Clubs.

By in large we have had consistently excellent junior results for 20 or more years but have been a failure at either selecting the correct ones or when we do select the right candidates we have not developed them to be capable enough during their time at the Panthers.

We were right to boot Leary and bring in Gus. Gus was right to give Elliot the boot, and also right to emphasise Reserve grade over the U20's fad and bring them back from Windsor (no offense to the Windsor Wolves - I attended quite a few games there). He was right that we need a culture change. But it all went wrong from there on.

He hired Cleary who wanted to instil discipline in a squad that wanted to run itself. Fine. However the first cracks were the departure of Jennings and especially Lewis. I already questioned why is it that Cleary gives these players the boot whilst great coaches such as Bellamy and Bennett can seem to straighten out troubled/maligned players and rejuvenate underperforming talent. But OKAY lets assume the worst and that these guys were beyond reform - it is not like Bellamy and Bennett always succeed, they cut loose players who are too pigheaded, lazy or stupid to be coached by them.

So Gus then starts buying players 'winners' from other clubs - and also underrated prospects. Most of his 'winners hires' are failures - brought in on good money and performing less than their pay grades. Manu, Kite, Soward. The likes of Soward and Segeyero had a good season or two but were either past their best (Soward) or had poor attitude (Seg) so by in large they were a failure.

Cleary also brings in 3 of his boys from the Warriors - Lewis Brown, Taylor and I forgot the other one. These guys were 'Rep' players and whilst servicable for us - they probably did not perform commensurate to their pay.

Gus also buys prospects the Naiquama Brothers (Disaster), Whare - a good buy and Api - a good buy undone by his decision to offload him to keep Seg who'd go on to leave. Peachey was perhaps one of his best punts but even that was somewhat of a double edged sword - Peachey is too good a general footballer but could not find a 'spot' in the starting 13.

Why am I banging on about Gus and his outside recruitment? Well you can't talk about Cleary without Gus. It was Gus's call to bring him in and also you can assume many of the Recruitment and retention decisions were made in consultation with Cleary. His tenure was by in large a failure. Our talented juniors (Coote/Austin) and other players had attitude and discipline problems that resulted in them being moved on. Our players were not disciplined on the field either, they were also injury prone and not that fit. What most don't talk about with our injuries is that we either purchased broken aged players or introduced young and under developed juniors too early or just the 'wrong body types' which is part of the point of what Franklin is on about.

So at the end of the Cleary rebuild - our results were marginally better than the proceeding 4 Elliot years. He is 'tired' - he is too easily stumped, admits defeat and has no fire so Gus rightly fires him - though mysteriously barely a year after giving him an extension. So it is a good decision following a bad decision (extension). Another strike against Gus as a manager, this cost us time and valuable money in the pay out.

Subsequently Grifin is hired. Shit so we replace one ordinary coach with another. Most fans are puzzled but the catch phrase amongst the Panther Cult is "In Gus we Trust". I had little faith but what the hell, I am a supporter - what else can I do another than see how it goes? Griffin take Clearys squad and turns them into a consistent and tough squad. So what do the Griffin years have to do with Cleary? Well Griffin had issues with players Discipline and effort such as Moylan, Soward etc. Wasn't Cleary supposed to have sorted the Leary/Elliot mess along with Gus? Evidently not.

So we have a competitive and talented squad and Griffin gets the boot - ok fine, he isn't the type of coach that can win you a GF - sort of a Brian Smith type except Brian could actually get you to a GF, but I digress.

So we hire Cleary back. In the off season we have these crazy sex tapes come out. Well our culture is obviously 'reformed' since the Gus/Cleary days isn't it. Our players come back unfit and their onfield effort and discipline has gone to shit. During the Griffin days our players were prone to stupid penalties (we were sin binned nearly every game last year) dumb dropped ball and taking unnecessary risks in poor field position. This year under Cleary it is even worse. Many fans question the intelligence of our players and this is where I finally get to my main point -

We Focus too much on skills talent and not anywhere near enough on the temperament, physical body type and Intellect when selecting our first graders.

You look at Bellamy teams and he selects the right body types for positions. He famously left the talented young and lanky Inglis at fullback till he was sure he was durable and experienced enough for the 'front line'. Smith, Cronk, and to a lesser extent Slater were all highly durable players, and all of them had excellent Temperament on and off the field. He always selects SPEED on his wings, not nuggetty short and slow metre eaters.

The Storm are our exact opposite. They have little in the way of juniors but always select and develop good players on and off the field. They have sustained success and we have sustained failure and underachieving.

If we were to select the right type of players and put them through the right channels of development there is no reason why we could not become a super club. Most of our intelligent fans realise this and this is why they are often the most frustrated. The potential is there and it is being completely squandered and the buck stops with the management.

Would be interesting to see what Bellamy could achieve with our squad.
Fitness and discipline would be improved.
Game plans to isolate a player so Kikau would be one on one instead of 1 v 4.
Press conferences where players would be held accountable for their performances and the phrase "I have no answers" would never be uttered.

 

[The Charlatan]

Tell the board. It's one thing to have one bloke on the board want to hire his mate, but the board had to approve it, and these stats were in the public domain.

In defence he was 6th last year, getting 50% wins with a side cobbled together from other clubs' rejects. They were robbed blind a couple of times too. So you'd at least expect good defence but what we've been seeing rivals the darkest days in the club's history. Makes me think it's well beyond Ivan Cleary's skills.

The last 4 of our 8 losses in a row to start 2002 were 30-26 (Broncos), 28-18 (Cowboys), 16-12 (Roosters) and 25-22 (Bulldogs). They were all competitive performances in which the team put in. Quite unlike what's happening now.

He can coach, he was getting the best at Wests last year with some players on the books that would be in state cup at virtually any other club in the NRL, hence why we were pissed when he went. Yeah we weren't scoring high but the defensive efforts improved under Ivan, especially after two and a bit years of JT telling us he was there to fix defence. Saw some very gutsy efforts under Ivan, especially early in the year getting some big scalps.

You're all obviously fans of the club and some of you might have the inside track on what it is happening, but I honestly believe the problems are well above Ivan. That is still a very talented squad (even sans Merrin, CHN and Peachey,) that was sitting fifth last year and made week two of the finals. It is almost like the squad have no trust in each other or don't want to play for each other. Did the whole sex scandal thing really do that big a number on them pre-season?

Ivan's problem is that he isn't the man manager in the mould of Bennett or Bellamy. Perhaps Bennett would not have let this fester the way it has.

 

[franklin2323]

This seems to me not too different to most of our history.

So my questions remain - what makes this era so different to other eras in our club? and what is the evidence that justifies the huge investment over the last few years?

Well Brian To'o is the 1st to debut with all his junior rep career with the academy in place. So I guess we will soon find out if it is worth it or not

 

[franklin2323]

This 100%. I keep on banging on about this. We could have the largest catchment of the most talented juniors and win the Club Championship every year - but if we FAIL to bring the right ones into the top grade the RIGHT way we are doomed, and not only that - we are wasting our resources for the betterment of other Clubs.

By in large we have had consistently excellent junior results for 20 or more years but have been a failure at either selecting the correct ones or when we do select the right candidates we have not developed them to be capable enough during their time at the Panthers.

We were right to boot Leary and bring in Gus. Gus was right to give Elliot the boot, and also right to emphasise Reserve grade over the U20's fad and bring them back from Windsor (no offense to the Windsor Wolves - I attended quite a few games there). He was right that we need a culture change. But it all went wrong from there on.

He hired Cleary who wanted to instil discipline in a squad that wanted to run itself. Fine. However the first cracks were the departure of Jennings and especially Lewis. I already questioned why is it that Cleary gives these players the boot whilst great coaches such as Bellamy and Bennett can seem to straighten out troubled/maligned players and rejuvenate underperforming talent. But OKAY lets assume the worst and that these guys were beyond reform - it is not like Bellamy and Bennett always succeed, they cut loose players who are too pigheaded, lazy or stupid to be coached by them.

So Gus then starts buying players 'winners' from other clubs - and also underrated prospects. Most of his 'winners hires' are failures - brought in on good money and performing less than their pay grades. Manu, Kite, Soward. The likes of Soward and Segeyero had a good season or two but were either past their best (Soward) or had poor attitude (Seg) so by in large they were a failure.

Cleary also brings in 3 of his boys from the Warriors - Lewis Brown, Taylor and I forgot the other one. These guys were 'Rep' players and whilst servicable for us - they probably did not perform commensurate to their pay.

Gus also buys prospects the Naiquama Brothers (Disaster), Whare - a good buy and Api - a good buy undone by his decision to offload him to keep Seg who'd go on to leave. Peachey was perhaps one of his best punts but even that was somewhat of a double edged sword - Peachey is too good a general footballer but could not find a 'spot' in the starting 13.

Why am I banging on about Gus and his outside recruitment? Well you can't talk about Cleary without Gus. It was Gus's call to bring him in and also you can assume many of the Recruitment and retention decisions were made in consultation with Cleary. His tenure was by in large a failure. Our talented juniors (Coote/Austin) and other players had attitude and discipline problems that resulted in them being moved on. Our players were not disciplined on the field either, they were also injury prone and not that fit. What most don't talk about with our injuries is that we either purchased broken aged players or introduced young and under developed juniors too early or just the 'wrong body types' which is part of the point of what Franklin is on about.

So at the end of the Cleary rebuild - our results were marginally better than the proceeding 4 Elliot years. He is 'tired' - he is too easily stumped, admits defeat and has no fire so Gus rightly fires him - though mysteriously barely a year after giving him an extension. So it is a good decision following a bad decision (extension). Another strike against Gus as a manager, this cost us time and valuable money in the pay out.

Subsequently Grifin is hired. Shit so we replace one ordinary coach with another. Most fans are puzzled but the catch phrase amongst the Panther Cult is "In Gus we Trust". I had little faith but what the hell, I am a supporter - what else can I do another than see how it goes? Griffin take Clearys squad and turns them into a consistent and tough squad. So what do the Griffin years have to do with Cleary? Well Griffin had issues with players Discipline and effort such as Moylan, Soward etc. Wasn't Cleary supposed to have sorted the Leary/Elliot mess along with Gus? Evidently not.

So we have a competitive and talented squad and Griffin gets the boot - ok fine, he isn't the type of coach that can win you a GF - sort of a Brian Smith type except Brian could actually get you to a GF, but I digress.

So we hire Cleary back. In the off season we have these crazy sex tapes come out. Well our culture is obviously 'reformed' since the Gus/Cleary days isn't it. Our players come back unfit and their onfield effort and discipline has gone to shit. During the Griffin days our players were prone to stupid penalties (we were sin binned nearly every game last year) dumb dropped ball and taking unnecessary risks in poor field position. This year under Cleary it is even worse. Many fans question the intelligence of our players and this is where I finally get to my main point -

We Focus too much on skills talent and not anywhere near enough on the temperament, physical body type and Intellect when selecting our first graders.

You look at Bellamy teams and he selects the right body types for positions. He famously left the talented young and lanky Inglis at fullback till he was sure he was durable and experienced enough for the 'front line'. Smith, Cronk, and to a lesser extent Slater were all highly durable players, and all of them had excellent Temperament on and off the field. He always selects SPEED on his wings, not nuggetty short and slow metre eaters.

The Storm are our exact opposite. They have little in the way of juniors but always select and develop good players on and off the field. They have sustained success and we have sustained failure and underachieving.

If we were to select the right type of players and put them through the right channels of development there is no reason why we could not become a super club. Most of our intelligent fans realise this and this is why they are often the most frustrated. The potential is there and it is being completely squandered and the buck stops with the management.

Great post. I blame Gus for this roster but the board for Ivan.

this week the Indigenous round is on. Faiumoano is the only one in our squad. Meanwhile we will be watching the flair, Speed etc of the wonderful indigenous players in the comp play elsewhere.

These guys should of got starts with us and is the sort of thing that needs to change now that Gus has gone

Sivo
Burns
Walker
Cook
Waddell

 

[darkbloom]

This 100%. I keep on banging on about this. We could have the largest catchment of the most talented juniors and win the Club Championship every year - but if we FAIL to bring the right ones into the top grade the RIGHT way we are doomed, and not only that - we are wasting our resources for the betterment of other Clubs.

By in large we have had consistently excellent junior results for 20 or more years but have been a failure at either selecting the correct ones or when we do select the right candidates we have not developed them to be capable enough during their time at the Panthers.

We were right to boot Leary and bring in Gus. Gus was right to give Elliot the boot, and also right to emphasise Reserve grade over the U20's fad and bring them back from Windsor (no offense to the Windsor Wolves - I attended quite a few games there). He was right that we need a culture change. But it all went wrong from there on.

He hired Cleary who wanted to instil discipline in a squad that wanted to run itself. Fine. However the first cracks were the departure of Jennings and especially Lewis. I already questioned why is it that Cleary gives these players the boot whilst great coaches such as Bellamy and Bennett can seem to straighten out troubled/maligned players and rejuvenate underperforming talent. But OKAY lets assume the worst and that these guys were beyond reform - it is not like Bellamy and Bennett always succeed, they cut loose players who are too pigheaded, lazy or stupid to be coached by them.

So Gus then starts buying players 'winners' from other clubs - and also underrated prospects. Most of his 'winners hires' are failures - brought in on good money and performing less than their pay grades. Manu, Kite, Soward. The likes of Soward and Segeyero had a good season or two but were either past their best (Soward) or had poor attitude (Seg) so by in large they were a failure.

Cleary also brings in 3 of his boys from the Warriors - Lewis Brown, Taylor and I forgot the other one. These guys were 'Rep' players and whilst servicable for us - they probably did not perform commensurate to their pay.

Gus also buys prospects the Naiquama Brothers (Disaster), Whare - a good buy and Api - a good buy undone by his decision to offload him to keep Seg who'd go on to leave. Peachey was perhaps one of his best punts but even that was somewhat of a double edged sword - Peachey is too good a general footballer but could not find a 'spot' in the starting 13.

Why am I banging on about Gus and his outside recruitment? Well you can't talk about Cleary without Gus. It was Gus's call to bring him in and also you can assume many of the Recruitment and retention decisions were made in consultation with Cleary. His tenure was by in large a failure. Our talented juniors (Coote/Austin) and other players had attitude and discipline problems that resulted in them being moved on. Our players were not disciplined on the field either, they were also injury prone and not that fit. What most don't talk about with our injuries is that we either purchased broken aged players or introduced young and under developed juniors too early or just the 'wrong body types' which is part of the point of what Franklin is on about.

So at the end of the Cleary rebuild - our results were marginally better than the proceeding 4 Elliot years. He is 'tired' - he is too easily stumped, admits defeat and has no fire so Gus rightly fires him - though mysteriously barely a year after giving him an extension. So it is a good decision following a bad decision (extension). Another strike against Gus as a manager, this cost us time and valuable money in the pay out.

Subsequently Grifin is hired. Shit so we replace one ordinary coach with another. Most fans are puzzled but the catch phrase amongst the Panther Cult is "In Gus we Trust". I had little faith but what the hell, I am a supporter - what else can I do another than see how it goes? Griffin take Clearys squad and turns them into a consistent and tough squad. So what do the Griffin years have to do with Cleary? Well Griffin had issues with players Discipline and effort such as Moylan, Soward etc. Wasn't Cleary supposed to have sorted the Leary/Elliot mess along with Gus? Evidently not.

So we have a competitive and talented squad and Griffin gets the boot - ok fine, he isn't the type of coach that can win you a GF - sort of a Brian Smith type except Brian could actually get you to a GF, but I digress.

So we hire Cleary back. In the off season we have these crazy sex tapes come out. Well our culture is obviously 'reformed' since the Gus/Cleary days isn't it. Our players come back unfit and their onfield effort and discipline has gone to shit. During the Griffin days our players were prone to stupid penalties (we were sin binned nearly every game last year) dumb dropped ball and taking unnecessary risks in poor field position. This year under Cleary it is even worse. Many fans question the intelligence of our players and this is where I finally get to my main point -

We Focus too much on skills talent and not anywhere near enough on the temperament, physical body type and Intellect when selecting our first graders.

You look at Bellamy teams and he selects the right body types for positions. He famously left the talented young and lanky Inglis at fullback till he was sure he was durable and experienced enough for the 'front line'. Smith, Cronk, and to a lesser extent Slater were all highly durable players, and all of them had excellent Temperament on and off the field. He always selects SPEED on his wings, not nuggetty short and slow metre eaters.

The Storm are our exact opposite. They have little in the way of juniors but always select and develop good players on and off the field. They have sustained success and we have sustained failure and underachieving.

If we were to select the right type of players and put them through the right channels of development there is no reason why we could not become a super club. Most of our intelligent fans realise this and this is why they are often the most frustrated. The potential is there and it is being completely squandered and the buck stops with the management.

Thank you for that. It is thoughtful and rational. Excellent. Thanks for taking the time to write this.

 

[TheFrog]

Griffin take Clearys squad and turns them into a consistent and tough squad.

Hands up who wouldn't like to be able to say that about our side right now?