Is Cleary a dud?

[herbert henry1908]

I am realistic, is the year going like I hoped, no, do I like loosing, f**k no, if it was my job would I have hired Ivan, definitely not but like it or not he is with us for 5 years and me getting the shits about it isn’t going to do me any good so rather than carry on about it I hope Ivan can get us back to the 2014 side that knocked the rooster out of the finals

The 2014 side was good recruitment, which was done by Phil Gould.

Clearys record shows that was a fluke, he’s not going to get us back there with this squad, and he’s not going to be able to recruit like Gould can.

 

[TheFrog]

I admire your optimism but your use of the 2016 Roosters as a comparison is misguided. Roosters lost RTS, Jennings and Maloney going into 2016 then had Pearce and Cordner both miss half the season.

It was still a damn good side on paper, not terribly different from the '17 side. Something just went wrong that couldn't be adequately explained. Same at the Cowboys last year, and Parramatta as well for that matter. Now its our turn. Ivan is a 48% coach but he's on 20% this year and lucky to be that high.

 

[Abacus]

It was still a damn good side on paper, not terribly different from the '17 side. Something just when wrong that couldn't be adequately explained. Same at the Cowboys last year, and Parramatta as well for that matter. Now its our turn. Ivan is a 48% coach but he's on 20% this year and lucky to be that high.

Roosters first year with a new FB, new 5/8 and missing their 7 for the first half of the season. If we were facing similar changes I could understand the comparison. But we're not. And instead of progressive performances this season, we seem to be getting worse game by game.

 

[murraymob]

there is no fast solution.
Cleary is going nowhere with his fat mate Dave Oneill in his corner .So here are a few left field solutions
Release
Tamou agree to pay half his wage any club that will take him
Whare the same
Malony once he misses origin I believe he will be gone cost nothing if he goes to pommy club
Grant not a first grader no new contract
Katoa not a first grader so slow the markers catch him before he passes release him

We need speed and straight running forwards .A dummy half who challenges the line

Yes this will cost money and short term pain. But right now we are headed for years of bottom 4 placement due to long term over paid contracts

 

[Rhyno]

Yeah he is

 

[darkbloom]

there is no fast solution.
Cleary is going nowhere with his fat mate Dave Oneill in his corner .So here are a few left field solutions
Release
Tamou agree to pay half his wage any club that will take him
Whare the same
Malony once he misses origin I believe he will be gone cost nothing if he goes to pommy club
Grant not a first grader no new contract
Katoa not a first grader so slow the markers catch him before he passes release him

We need speed and straight running forwards .A dummy half who challenges the line

Yes this will cost money and short term pain. But right now we are headed for years of bottom 4 placement due to long term over paid contracts

"Yes, this will cost money"

Haha!

it cost $50m to get us here - there's none left, everything has been sold off.

 

[forby]

Af

Look up optimist in the dictionary, and there forby is.

After 50+ years of supporting them I guess I will always be optimistic.
I am a Panther through and through.
It hurts me to read the comments on these forums. If you had been through some of the real lean times and then look at the current team you might not be so critical.
It also pains me that because of my work commitments I have to watch the games on my phone overseas, like to today in Bangladesh.

 

[darkbloom]

The 2014 side was good recruitment, which was done by Phil Gould.

Clearys record shows that was a fluke, he’s not going to get us back there with this squad, and he’s not going to be able to recruit like Gould can.

Just to clear things up - who recruited the current roster and/or managed retention and/or extension decisions?

 

[herbert henry1908]

there is no fast solution.
Cleary is going nowhere with his fat mate Dave Oneill in his corner .So here are a few left field solutions
Release
Tamou agree to pay half his wage any club that will take him
Whare the same
Malony once he misses origin I believe he will be gone cost nothing if he goes to pommy club
Grant not a first grader no new contract
Katoa not a first grader so slow the markers catch him before he passes release him

We need speed and straight running forwards .A dummy half who challenges the line

Yes this will cost money and short term pain. But right now we are headed for years of bottom 4 placement due to long term over paid contracts

Here’s what’s crazy

We can’t get rid of the coach - gave him a 5 year deal

We can’t move Nathan to no.9 - gave him too much money to be a star halfback & his dad would never go for it.

We could solve two problems by moving Nathan to hooker, but we can’t do it. We’re boxed in.

 

[franklin2323]

Af

After 50+ years of supporting them I guess I will always be optimistic.
I am a Panther through and through.
It hurts me to read the comments on these forums. If you had been through some of the real lean times and then look at the current team you might not be so critical.
It also pains me that because of my work commitments I have to watch the games on my phone overseas, like to today in Bangladesh.

Have we ever been in such a hole though? We have been ordinary but guys locked up long term and coach looked up long term.

I know we had 4 in SOO but have we had 5 current rep players in the one squad before?

This is why this hole is a bad one

 

[franklin2323]

Here’s what’s crazy

We can’t get rid of the coach - gave him a 5 year deal

We can’t move Nathan to no.9 - gave him too much money to be a star halfback & his dad would never go for it.

We could solve two problems by moving Nathan to hooker, but we can’t do it. We’re boxed in.

That is why I see this as the worst on the field the club has ever been in. Some very lean years to come

 

[herbert henry1908]

Just to clear things up - who recruited the current roster and/or managed retention and/or extension decisions?

If you look at my post history I’ve been critical of Gould’s recent recruitment strategy.

@Pomoz can tell you, I’ve said numerous times Gould became too reliant on juniors, but his early recruitment was good.

Gould’s decision making has progressively gone downhill at the club, I’ve been banging on about this for years.

But he had one final good idea, and that was to recruit Bennett. He probably doesn’t win us a title, but we’d be better off than this.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Af

After 50+ years of supporting them I guess I will always be optimistic.
I am a Panther through and through.
It hurts me to read the comments on these forums. If you had been through some of the real lean times and then look at the current team you might not be so critical.
It also pains me that because of my work commitments I have to watch the games on my phone overseas, like to today in Bangladesh.

I haven’t been a fan as long as you, Forby, but I have been for 30 years. So I’ve seen plenty of bad too.

The comments here are largely venting, people want better for the club. They don’t say these things unless they love the place.

 

[martielang]

Let’s not argue boys & girls, everyone grieves differently.

Let’s all just hug... & cry.

 

[franklin2323]

Let’s not argue boys & girls, everyone grieves differently.

Let’s all just hug... & cry.

We just need to all find new things to watch over Winter for the next 4 years

 

[TheFrog]

Tamou agree to pay half his wage any club that will take him

Tamou was the only player who could hold his head high tonight.

 

[darkbloom]

If you look at my post history I’ve been critical of Gould’s recent recruitment strategy.

@Pomoz can tell you, I’ve said numerous times Gould became too reliant on juniors, but his early recruitment was good.

Gould’s decision making has progressively gone downhill at the club, I’ve been banging on about this for years.

But he had one final good idea, and that was to recruit Bennett. He probably doesn’t win us a title, but we’d be better off than this.

I wasn't being critical, I just wanted to make sure my thinking was right. So many appear to be critical of our roster yet fail to identify who is responsible for this roster. It was causing me to think I was missing something.

Was this forum running back in 2002 - without meaning to minimise the current problem, I am pretty certain there would have been passionate calls for the head of Lang that year - and the heads of the CEO and the Board.

I, myself, thought we had made the wrong move but it turned out we hadn't. I concede we faced different issues back then.

One of our current problems, and maybe you'll agree or maybe not, is that Gus' determination to secure a premiership has paradoxically created for us a huge problem. That is:

We are now in a position where we have emptied the coffers - admittedly sometimes on great worthy footy projects, but other times on stupid decisions like our coaching situation and effectively paying for 3 coaches at one time.

Anyway, we have emptied the coffers and yet also painted ourselves into a salary cap position. This combination means we have no room to manouevre. That is the legacy.

It is hard to say whether Bennett would have made a great difference - he probably would have been better but then Cameron Ciraldo probably would have produced a better result so far. In fact the odds are no coach at all might also have produced better than 2 from 9.

 

[betcats]

Let’s not argue boys & girls, everyone grieves differently.

Let’s all just hug... & cry.

I have no tears left

 

[franklin2323]

I wasn't being critical, I just wanted to make sure my thinking was right. So many appear to be critical of our roster yet fail to identify who is responsible for this roster. It was causing me to think I was missing something.

Was this forum running back in 2002 - without meaning to minimise the current problem, I am pretty certain there would have been passionate calls for the head of Lang that year - and the heads of the CEO and the Board.

I, myself, thought we had made the wrong move but it turned out we hadn't. I concede we faced different issues back then.

One of our current problems, and maybe you'll agree or maybe not, is that Gus' determination to secure a premiership has paradoxically created for us a huge problem. That is:

We are now in a position where we have emptied the coffers - admittedly sometimes on great worthy footy projects, but other times on stupid decisions like our coaching situation and effectively paying for 3 coaches at one time.

Anyway, we have emptied the coffers and yet also painted ourselves into a salary cap position. This combination means we have no room to manouevre. That is the legacy.

It is hard to say whether Bennett would have made a great difference - he probably would have been better but then Cameron Ciraldo probably would have produced a better result so far. In fact the odds are no coach at all might also have produced better than 2 from 9.

2002 you could see the rise with the young guys and older guys like Gower putting in. I don't see that light at the end of the tunnel atm

 

[darkbloom]

Af

After 50+ years of supporting them I guess I will always be optimistic.
I am a Panther through and through.
It hurts me to read the comments on these forums. If you had been through some of the real lean times and then look at the current team you might not be so critical.
It also pains me that because of my work commitments I have to watch the games on my phone overseas, like to today in Bangladesh.

To be a reasonable fan you need optimism, resilience, faith and to have a good feel for the history of your club.

There have been plenty of lean times.

I remember standing around a fire in 2002. It was after a home game we'd lost to North Queensland. I think it was round 7 or 8 and we had not won a game. There had been a member/players function and everyone had left.

Around the fire was myself, Lang, Richo and a director. Lang was describing how his last few weeks had been - he'd had people calling him all sorts of names, telling him to get back to the Shire - he'd be coaching the side on the outside oval and people would yell obscenities and him and the team as they drove past.

John is a good talker but I managed to ask him a question. What do you thins is going wrong and how do you fix it?

He said he could not put his finger on what was going wrong, he said something that applies to most disciplines, individuals, teams, businesses and enterprises - as soon as you introduce significant change there is a drop in performance - it will be temporary but it is hard to say how long it will last. We have to have faith in what we are doing and where we are going if we start changing again we will never get the answer. Sticking together will do it.

I never rated Lang as a great coach but he was great at managing and valuing people - he was optimistic, resilient, and he had faith and great respect for our club. It got him through.

I don't know about Cleary - I did rate him a better coach than Lang but he does not seem to showing it - but then I thought Lang was not showing it back 2002!.

I also think that having his son as the key playmaker is not a good thing - it is not good for the coach or the playmaker.. I know Lang had Marty in his team but Marty was not responsible for guiding the team around the park.