"It’s very realistic to say that we’ll have a second team in Brisbane in 2023": V'landys

[Perth Red]

Have you read the Gemba NRL expansion report? Broadly speaking it's very well done, and you should give it a look-see if you haven't already; specifically give pages 9 and 10 a read.

Now it's not the focus of the study, so it's not given much attention, but their findings are pretty clear and consistent with what I was saying. American Football, Basketball, MMA, etc, may be small now, but even if we are conservative about their future growth rates they are going to grow big fast, and it's inevitable that that is going to have major impacts market here and abroad.

Kids like shiny things and these sports are massively shiny, BUT they dont have the same emotional attachment as following your own team and the kids will NEVER get to see the team play. As we have seen in the past they tend to come and go as flavour of the month fads. If teh EPL cant really make much ground, and soccer as a participation sport is massive here, then NFL certianly wont. Its not easy to play, its expensive, the main teams are a world away and its hard work watching on TV. Dont be foooled because a handful of kids are walking round with Brady Partiots jerseys on! My 15 year old godson starting playing basketball at school, next thing he was a Celtics fan, got a jersey and cap, one year later and hes dropped basketball and the Celtics. Such are fads.

 

[Jim Rockford]

Hatcher makes no sense.

That's exactly why Perth Red agrees with him. They're like 2 peas in a pod.

 

[Perth Red]

Hatcher makes no sense. Adding a 4th Queensland team to the NRL will improve the standard of the Queensland Cup as NRL contracted players won't be spread so thinly amongst the 14 clubs. Put a 5th NRL club in Queensland and another from NZ and then you have at least 8 clubs who can link up with the existing Queensland Cup clubs.

It is a strange position he is taking. I would have thought the idea of a QRL club being promoted to the NRL for the first time ever would have been a mjor positive for the QRL. Its clear theres not enough elite Qlnd player pathways at the moment so adding another one surely must be a good thing for the QRL??

 

[Perth Red]

Anyone know which 15 QRL premier clubs are feeder clubs for which NRL teams? From what I could find, but not sure if still current?

Broncos - Wynnum Manly Seagulls, Souths Logan Magpies and Norths Devils
Storm - Sunshine Coast Falcons, Brisbane Tigers
Titans - Burleigh Bears and Tweed Heads Seagulls
Cowboys - Northern Pride, Townsville BlackHawks, Mackay Cutters
Warriors - Redcliffe Dolphins
Knights - Ipswich Jets

Out of interest will any of the current QRL cup clubs be willing to partner with the new Brisbane2 club gven their long rivallaries? or will the new club still run a QRL cup side as its reserve grade?

 

[Jamberoo]

Anybody who has been paying attention shouldn't need numbers.

I mean f**k just go to a high school and count the badges. For every NRL, AFL, Super Rugby, etc, one you see you'll see two NBA, EPL, NFL, etc, badges.

This is the exact same shit short-sighted people said about the AFL north of the Murray 30 years ago, but 30 years of consistent growth has completely blown them out of the water.

Rome wasn't built in a day, but it is slowly being built, and again it's not just the NFL, it's all the major sports leagues on the planet.

Badges? Not in Melbourne. Kids are all playing footy and trading AFL cards after school. They may play basketball on the weekends but they don't follow it as much as AFL. Soccer is not a thing in Melbourne unless you are of European, Asian or Sth American background.

NZ is the 4th biggest immigration group in Victoria. All up in 2016 there was around 120k people living in Victoria from polynesian and PNG. There was less than half that from Africa, with half of them being white Sth Africans. Add in their kids and it shouldnt be hard to find 10k RL players before we even look at Northern England immigrants and the odd local Australian too big for AFL!

file:///C:/Users/jason/Downloads/Table1VictoriaCountryofbirth2016Censusandchange5July17.PDF

I can't speak for the outer suburbs - which is where the RL clubs all are., but in the inner and middle suburbs (half of melbourne) there are virtually no polynesians. My son's primary school is 20km from the CBD, fairly middle class and there is most one family of polynesian decent. My son played seven seasons of AFL and played against 20 -30 different clubs and not one polynesian. I assume they are all in the very outer suburbs and playing League or Union. Still, Melbourne is not producing RL players of any background, so if there really are that many polynesians here they must be playing union.

The ARL Commission is ready to push back a call on expansion as they postpone meetings with the bidding parties for at least a fortnight and prioritise keeping the premiership afloat.
The three expansion aspirants – Redcliffe Dolphins, the Brisbane Firehawks and Brishane Jets – were due to present to the full commission on Monday but the latest Covid outbreak in Sydney left the game’s powerbrokers with little choice but to redirect their energies.

Talks with the respective bidders will now be held later this month, forcing the commission to delay a decision on a 17th team until August at the earliest. The commission had originally planned to discuss the respective bid presentations at a meeting on Tuesday before making a decision at the end of July.

That meeting is now expected to be dominated by the game’s response to the latest Covid threat, which has forced the NRL to put the clubs back in high-level biosecurity protocols and created a significant degree of uncertainty around the destination of the third State of Origin game.

That match is scheduled to be held at Stadium Australian in just over two weeks but there is every chance it will be moved, with McDonald Jones Stadium in Newcastle the likely destination provided the NRL is able to have spectators at the game.
ARL Commission chair Peter V’landys confirmed talks with the three expansion bids had been delayed for the foreseeable future as the game navigated its way through the latest Covid threat.
“We postponed that because at the moment our priority is to keep the competition going,” V’landys said.
“We were supposed to meet the (Brisbane Broncos) and we postponed that as well. All hands are on deck. This virus is significantly more contagious than the previous one.
“We have to make sure we have a more detailed plan. We’re not going to take any risks. We have to be very cautious.”
Asked when the talks with the expansion aspirants would go ahead, V’landys said it was too difficult at the moment to provide a time frame.
“We will talk about it tomorrow,” he said.
“I don’t want to set a finite date at the moment.”
The news will come as a blow to Redcliffe and the Brisbane Firehawks, but could breathe new life into the Brisbane Jets bid as they attempt to secure the financial muscle to compete with their expansion rivals.
The Australian last week revealed that the Jets had sent a confidential tender document to investors and sponsors seeking to shore up their finances in the lead-up to a decision by the ARL Commission on the 17th licence.
The Jets have now been given some additional time to make the numbers stack up, although revelations of their financial uncertainty has left them as the outsiders in the process given the cash both Redcliffe and the Firehawks have at their disposal.
The delay in a decision will also leave the successful bidder with less time to piece together their roster for 2023, although the likes of Kalyn Ponga, Viliame Kikau and Ryan Papenhuyzen could potentially be up for grabs.
If Queensland Rugby League chair Bruce Hatcher had his way, expansion would be delayed for much, much longer. Hatcher remains an advocate for partial relocation of an existing Sydney club, whereby they play a significant number of their home games at Suncorp Stadium, before eventually moving operations to Brisbane.
“It is too early and I want a strategic alliance,” Hatcher said.
“Above all else, we need a game at (Suncorp Stadium) every week. I really don’t see how just creating another team is going to add anything.
“If you create a new team, I cannot believe it can be competitive in one year. I would prefer to have a transition period where a strategic alliance is done with a Sydney club and then at the end of three years we see how it has gone financially.
“Then it becomes an obvious answer that they can merge.”

NoCookies | The Australian

www.theaustralian.com.au

Looks like a non decision is coming. A relocation/merger is not going to happen. This is all paralleling the proposed Tassie expansion in the AFL. All too hard, so deley, delay, delay. Weak as piss.

 

[Jamberoo]

RU is a dying game and is losing its influence over the private schooling system. ARLC should stipulate in their Origin deals with the Victorian Gov that the game must be played in state schools at some level.

That is a ridiculous suggestion. No-one knows how to play RL in Victoria, so the NRL would need dozens and dozen of development officers that know the rules to run it. There are no goals anywhere, certainly there would not be a state school in Melbourne with any. Any growth in kids playing needs to be driven by passionate volunteers, like those that run the 17 community RL clubs here, with funding from the NRL. The total current budget for Vic is $1m. What would that be - four or five staff, half a million on promotion and equipment for clubs? The AFL spend $60m a year on this, including over $10m in each of NSW & QLD. The NRL are so far behind that they would need to spend double that to catch up and have any hope of gaining traction. I am sure PVL would love to send $20m south each year for the next ten years.
$1m is pissing in the wind.

 

[Mr Angry]

Anyone know which 15 QRL premier clubs are feeder clubs for which NRL teams? From what I could find, but not sure if still current?

Broncos - Wynnum Manly Seagulls, Souths Logan Magpies and Norths Devils
Storm - Sunshine Coast Falcons, Brisbane Tigers
Titans - Burleigh Bears and Tweed Heads Seagulls
Cowboys - Northern Pride, Townsville BlackHawks, Mackay Cutters
Warriors - Redcliffe Dolphins
Knights - Ipswich Jets

Out of interest will any of the current QRL cup clubs be willing to partner with the new Brisbane2 club gven their long rivallaries? or will the new club still run a QRL cup side as its reserve grade?

Broncos also have the Central QLD Capras. The Broncos do show up and do fan days, kiddy training etc in places like Bundaberg every year.

The rest is current.

If any one of the bids get up, that affiliation will cease.

Melbourne Tigers
Warriors Redcliffe
Newcastle Ipswich

All of these affiliations are rather new. Far from steeped in history. Unlike the Tigers, Dolphins and Jets.

So no QLD NRL team would lose their junior affiliation. Only only interstate and overseas teams looking to steal QLD juniors.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

It is a strange position he is taking. I would have thought the idea of a QRL club being promoted to the NRL for the first time ever would have been a mjor positive for the QRL. Its clear theres not enough elite Qlnd player pathways at the moment so adding another one surely must be a good thing for the QRL??

I don't know what his agenda is, but it sure isn't helping RL in Queensland. The prospect of having an old BRL team in the NRL should make every Queenslander feel proud. For me it is better than winning 8 SOO series in a row.

I love the BRL and believe its "survive against all odds" history until 1988 encompasses everything great about RL.

If I had my way the Titans would become the Gold Coast Diehards and the Broncos would become the Brisbane Devils so that 3 BRL brands are represented in the NRL, but we all know it will never happen and would be madness to rebrand the Titans and Broncos.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Anyone know which 15 QRL premier clubs are feeder clubs for which NRL teams? From what I could find, but not sure if still current?

Broncos - Wynnum Manly Seagulls, Souths Logan Magpies and Norths Devils
Storm - Sunshine Coast Falcons, Brisbane Tigers
Titans - Burleigh Bears and Tweed Heads Seagulls
Cowboys - Northern Pride, Townsville BlackHawks, Mackay Cutters
Warriors - Redcliffe Dolphins
Knights - Ipswich Jets

Out of interest will any of the current QRL cup clubs be willing to partner with the new Brisbane2 club gven their long rivallaries? or will the new club still run a QRL cup side as its reserve grade?

It would make sense for Brisbane Firehawks, if admitted, to team up with Souths Logan Magpies.

Brisbane Dolphins/Moreton Bay Dolphins would be best served teaming up with Sunshine Coast.

That is a ridiculous suggestion. No-one knows how to play RL in Victoria, so the NRL would need dozens and dozen of development officers that know the rules to run it. There are no goals anywhere, certainly there would not be a state school in Melbourne with any. Any growth in kids playing needs to be driven by passionate volunteers, like those that run the 17 community RL clubs here, with funding from the NRL. The total current budget for Vic is $1m. What would that be - four or five staff, half a million on promotion and equipment for clubs? The AFL spend $60m a year on this, including over $10m in each of NSW & QLD. The NRL are so far behind that they would need to spend double that to catch up and have any hope of gaining traction. I am sure PVL would love to send $20m south each year for the next ten years.
$1m is pissing in the wind.

Surely Physical Education teachers know the rules. Up here they had Gaelic football in the PE/Health curriculum when I was at school 20 years ago.

 

[siv]

I could see Brisbane 2 added

Then the Warriors drop out as its too costly to keep running a overseas team based in Australia during this Covid impacted decade

Just like in the NRLW

 

[Hartwood]

I could see Brisbane 2 added

Then the Warriors drop out as its too costly to keep running a overseas team based in Australia during this Covid impacted decade

Just like in the NRLW

The Warriors are based out of Australia right now. Pretty sure the only reason that the NRLW Warriors pulled out was because their players have full-time jobs and don't want to risk being trapped in Aus

 

[siv]

The Warriors are based out of Australia right now. Pretty sure the only reason that the NRLW Warriors pulled out was because their players have full-time jobs and don't want to risk being trapped in Aus

But there will be a high cost to the NRL to continue to run the mens Warriors team away from home

 

[The Great Dane]

Kids like shiny things and these sports are massively shiny, BUT they dont have the same emotional attachment as following your own team and the kids will NEVER get to see the team play. As we have seen in the past they tend to come and go as flavour of the month fads. If teh EPL cant really make much ground, and soccer as a participation sport is massive here, then NFL certianly wont. Its not easy to play, its expensive, the main teams are a world away and its hard work watching on TV. Dont be foooled because a handful of kids are walking round with Brady Partiots jerseys on! My 15 year old godson starting playing basketball at school, next thing he was a Celtics fan, got a jersey and cap, one year later and hes dropped basketball and the Celtics. Such are fads.

Man somebody has their head firmly stuck in the sand...

Firstly, it's very hard to simply wave them away as 'fads' when there's been consistent growth over years.

Asserting that they'll never get the opportunity to see their teams play, A. isn't necessarily true anymore (all of the big leagues have seen the value in taking games abroad, and EPL teams and the NFL have already played exhibitions in Australia, the NBA helped facilitate Team USA coming to Australia, and other competitions will follow suit given time) and B. it is totally redundant in the modern world where they can watch every game live or on demand, interact directly with the club and on occasion players, buy their products, watch their media, etc, etc, without ever having to leave the comfort of their home.

The world, and how people interact with pro-sports in it, has changed, and those changes are facilitating massive movement in the sports market all over the world, and frankly, to deny that is to deny reality.

I mean f**k, how do we even define participation anymore!

I think it's safe to say that kids that pick up FIFA, Madden, NBA 2k, etc, are significantly more likely to develop an interest in said sport, and technically they are participating in the sport in some way, even if it's not in the traditional sense. Now I'm not quite sure what to make of that yet, as research needs to be done in that area, but I'm sure you can see what I'm getting at.

 

[The Great Dane]

Badges? Not in Melbourne. Kids are all playing footy and trading AFL cards after school. They may play basketball on the weekends but they don't follow it as much as AFL. Soccer is not a thing in Melbourne unless you are of European, Asian or Sth American background.

That would make them massive outliers.

 

[Mr Angry]

It would make sense for Brisbane Firehawks, if admitted, to team up with Souths Logan Magpies.

If admitted, it would make sense for them to become the defacto South of the river team, covering the Redlands until you hit the Logan River where the Gold Coast currently starts.

QRL teams, Tigers, Seagulls, Magpies

Leaving the Broncos with Norths Devils, where they should once again join with both Ipswich and Redcliffe, which they have done before.

Then take back Sunshine Coast right up to the Capras or leave them to Melbourne. Hunters need a big brother.

Qld carved up clean.

But we are talking RL clubs, sense has nothing to do with it

Warriors should join with Woy Woy or someone and get a Gosford them back in NSW cup., so it has 12 teams.

Newcastle already have NSW cup.

 

[Perth Red]

I could see Brisbane 2 added

Then the Warriors drop out as its too costly to keep running a overseas team based in Australia during this Covid impacted decade

Just like in the NRLW

theyve just got $164mill from sky nz. Warriors are going nowhere!

 

[MugaB]

theyve just got $164mill from sky nz. Warriors are going nowhere!

And when that revenue rights are done, maybe the 18th team in NZ, might increase that amount

 

[cumbrian Mackem]

And when that revenue rights are done, maybe the 18th team in NZ, might increase that amount

NZ2 would surely increase the next tv deal?

 

[Perth Red]

The NRL’s plans to launch a second Brisbane team in 2023 are hanging in the balance after ARLC chairman Peter V’landys revealed the Covid crisis could force expansion to be delayed.
V’landys is forging ahead with investigating the merits of a 17th club based in south east Queensland entering the NRL from 2023 when the game’s new free-to-air broadcast deal commences.

Meetings between the NRL and three bid teams – the Firehawks, Dolphins and Jets – were due to be held in Brisbane on Monday this week, but were cancelled due to government Covid restrictions.
The extreme measures will impact the NRL’s revenue streams and profitability for 2021 while also diverting attention from expansion.

The NRL was planning to make a decision on expansion for 2023 by the end of July, however it now appears inevitable the deadline will be pushed back.
At least one of the expansion bid teams believes 2024 is a more realistic date for a new team to launch due to the NRL’s more pressing priorities and the lingering uncertainty of Covid.

The NRL is nearing the pointy end of negotiations with Channel 9 over a new broadcast deal from 2023, with the result of that to decide whether expansion is financially viable.

V’landys said the cancellation of this week’s meetings would not have a huge impact and he had not given up hope of a 2023 launch date.

“I’m not worried about the delays – a couple of weeks in the scheme of things is neither here nor there,” he said.

“It gives us a chance to read the documents substantially more because there are mountains of documents.
“We will hold a special meeting of the board after the interviews. There won’t be much time lost.

“My theory is nothing is impossible. You’ve got to have a ‘can-do’ attitude. If it means 2024 then it’s 2024. If it’s 2023 it’s 2023.

“We’re not giving up on 2023 just yet but if the financial position worsens then we will have no option.

“The whole idea of having another team is to improve the revenues of the game. If it was going to be a burden you wouldn’t do it.

“It’s the overall economy you’d be worried about. There are certain conditions in the economy and our financial position we have to take into account.”
V’landys said expansion ultimately relied on what broadcasters were willing to pay.

“If we proceed or don’t proceed all depends on broadcast revenue,” he said.

“You can always put it back and start the new broadcast revenue from the next year but that’s not ideal.
“Our financial position at the moment is reasonably good considering the circumstances. A lot will depend on the next month or two. If things don’t go very well with Covid then naturally we will have to re-look at it.

“We will never put financial pressure on the game, never ever. We will always make the decisions for the best overall benefit of the game.

“If the next two or three months causes us to haemorrhage in finances then we will naturally have to look at it. I absolutely agree with that. I can’t see that happening, but if it did that’s being responsible.

“The broadcasters have got to provide the additional revenue or else it doesn’t proceed.

“We’ve been negotiating on that for quite a while. We will know that in the next couple of weeks. It will all come together and we can make an informed decision.

“As I’ve said from day one, the business case has to stack up and it’s got to be for the benefit of the game as a whole. If it’s not for the benefit of the game as a whole we’re not going to proceed.”
If a 17th club is given the green-light from 2023, they face a race to set up their operations and begin recruiting available players from November this year.

South Sydney CEO Blake Solly and Broncos chairman Karl Morris this week called for a decision on expansion to be delayed a year due to the uncertainty engulfing the game.

V’landys said the current clubs would be consulted before a decision was made.

“Expansion has been on the table for many years and this is the first time we’ve gone to this length to decide once and for all,” he said.

“We have got the courage to look at it, analyse it and if it’s beneficial to the game as a whole we will present that case to the club CEOs and chairs.

“That’s part of the process. We’re not going to make the decision without going to them, even though we don’t have to.

“We have to show that it’s to the full benefit of the game. If we can’t convince ourselves that step won’t need to proceed.”

NoCookies | The Australian

www.theaustralian.com.au

 

[cumbrian Mackem]

The NRL’s plans to launch a second Brisbane team in 2023 are hanging in the balance after ARLC chairman Peter V’landys revealed the Covid crisis could force expansion to be delayed.
V’landys is forging ahead with investigating the merits of a 17th club based in south east Queensland entering the NRL from 2023 when the game’s new free-to-air broadcast deal commences.

Meetings between the NRL and three bid teams – the Firehawks, Dolphins and Jets – were due to be held in Brisbane on Monday this week, but were cancelled due to government Covid restrictions.
The extreme measures will impact the NRL’s revenue streams and profitability for 2021 while also diverting attention from expansion.

The NRL was planning to make a decision on expansion for 2023 by the end of July, however it now appears inevitable the deadline will be pushed back.
At least one of the expansion bid teams believes 2024 is a more realistic date for a new team to launch due to the NRL’s more pressing priorities and the lingering uncertainty of Covid.

The NRL is nearing the pointy end of negotiations with Channel 9 over a new broadcast deal from 2023, with the result of that to decide whether expansion is financially viable.

V’landys said the cancellation of this week’s meetings would not have a huge impact and he had not given up hope of a 2023 launch date.

“I’m not worried about the delays – a couple of weeks in the scheme of things is neither here nor there,” he said.

“It gives us a chance to read the documents substantially more because there are mountains of documents.
“We will hold a special meeting of the board after the interviews. There won’t be much time lost.

“My theory is nothing is impossible. You’ve got to have a ‘can-do’ attitude. If it means 2024 then it’s 2024. If it’s 2023 it’s 2023.

“We’re not giving up on 2023 just yet but if the financial position worsens then we will have no option.

“The whole idea of having another team is to improve the revenues of the game. If it was going to be a burden you wouldn’t do it.

“It’s the overall economy you’d be worried about. There are certain conditions in the economy and our financial position we have to take into account.”
V’landys said expansion ultimately relied on what broadcasters were willing to pay.

“If we proceed or don’t proceed all depends on broadcast revenue,” he said.

“You can always put it back and start the new broadcast revenue from the next year but that’s not ideal.
“Our financial position at the moment is reasonably good considering the circumstances. A lot will depend on the next month or two. If things don’t go very well with Covid then naturally we will have to re-look at it.

“We will never put financial pressure on the game, never ever. We will always make the decisions for the best overall benefit of the game.

“If the next two or three months causes us to haemorrhage in finances then we will naturally have to look at it. I absolutely agree with that. I can’t see that happening, but if it did that’s being responsible.

“The broadcasters have got to provide the additional revenue or else it doesn’t proceed.

“We’ve been negotiating on that for quite a while. We will know that in the next couple of weeks. It will all come together and we can make an informed decision.

“As I’ve said from day one, the business case has to stack up and it’s got to be for the benefit of the game as a whole. If it’s not for the benefit of the game as a whole we’re not going to proceed.”
If a 17th club is given the green-light from 2023, they face a race to set up their operations and begin recruiting available players from November this year.

South Sydney CEO Blake Solly and Broncos chairman Karl Morris this week called for a decision on expansion to be delayed a year due to the uncertainty engulfing the game.

V’landys said the current clubs would be consulted before a decision was made.

“Expansion has been on the table for many years and this is the first time we’ve gone to this length to decide once and for all,” he said.

“We have got the courage to look at it, analyse it and if it’s beneficial to the game as a whole we will present that case to the club CEOs and chairs.

“That’s part of the process. We’re not going to make the decision without going to them, even though we don’t have to.

“We have to show that it’s to the full benefit of the game. If we can’t convince ourselves that step won’t need to proceed.”

NoCookies | The Australian

www.theaustralian.com.au

theyll shit out.