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"It’s very realistic to say that we’ll have a second team in Brisbane in 2023": V'landys

mongoose

Coach
Messages
11,809
I believe Sydney is over saturated but you can't just chop existing brands willy nilly. First of all the broadcasters wont pay anywhere near as much for a comp that has the South East Sydney Wombats, North Shore Dingos, Southern Sting rays etc.... They are paying money for the Rabbitohs, the Eels, the Dragons. The fact is the clubs and players bring in the revenue, not the NRL or the game itself.
 

titoelcolombiano

First Grade
Messages
6,633
Game would be dead without well established Sydney teams. You know super league failed don't you?!
Yes, the established Sydney clubs are important but that doesn't have to be in the top flight. People can support their local Sydney team at their local suburban ground in the NSWRL and one of the new Sydney Super franchises in the NRL. Super Rugby at it's height (and yes it has its flaws) showed us that the Shute Shield and Waratahs can both be popular and can even be used to service different markets within the game.

Are you sure SL didn't win (or better put, News Ltd)? Clubs that no longer exist in the NRL:

Balmain Tigers - ARL
Western Suburbs Magpies - ARL
North Sydney Bears - ARL
Illawarra Steelers - ARL
St George Dragons - ARL
Gold Coast Chargers - ARL
South QLD Crushers - ARL
Perth - SL
Adelaide - SL (newly created for SL anyway)
Hunter - SL (newly created for SL anyway)

In addition to ARL clubs getting rationalised or cut on a much larger basis, the three Sydney SL teams were fine and News Ltd got Melbourne brought in at a time when teams were getting axed left right and centre and News Ltd got control of the game and to cover it on Fox Sports (which is what they were really after).
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,551
Im not against adding another Melbourne storm type set up for Perth and/or Adelaide, i just can't see it happening in the next few expansion bids, unless the RL gets super flushed with cash to invest into bringing that about, don't get me wrong on that front, i want the league to expand there, its just can't happen when there is other "heartland" areas that are playing league right now at a competitive level that are bidding to get the next few spots ahead of Wa/Sa.. it will come but the league has to be able to afford to do what the ALF do with the Giants/Suns
I agree but it is chicken and egg somewhat. AFL has opened up a massive revenue gap largely by expanding into a national comp with australia wide appeal for sponsors and tv. How will the NRL significantly increase revenue if it stays the same? A ninth game will bring in more money but that is likely to just pay for the tw new clubs it requires. If they are two more existing markets then it does little to inflate revenue beyond cost.
 

Jim Rockford

Bench
Messages
3,082
Just like "penis envy" is a recognized psychological condition, it would seem that GROTD,Perth Red and flippikat (aka Larry,Moe and Curly) suffer from "market envy" with their obsession over where the AFL have teams.Perhaps if they sought help with their mental problems the rest of us wouldn't have to put up with their incessant whinging about the game.
 

MugaB

Coach
Messages
15,060
I agree but it is chicken and egg somewhat. AFL has opened up a massive revenue gap largely by expanding into a national comp with australia wide appeal for sponsors and tv. How will the NRL significantly increase revenue if it stays the same? A ninth game will bring in more money but that is likely to just pay for the tw new clubs it requires. If they are two more existing markets then it does little to inflate revenue beyond cost.
I agree, but now isn't the time to start throwing money at either state of Wa/Sa in regards to propping up a 1st grade NRL side in Perth or Adelaide, when there's no real team or base to build off right now, the current expansion bids are all setup from QLD cup teams, the jump to NRL level won't be as hard, compared to starting from scratch in a non heartland area, ala "Melbourne Storm" where it's nessesary to prop it up for the next 10-15 years before its viable as they are now, even then Victoria is not producing many juniors in comparison to any of the other clubs that are in Nsw/Qld/Nz, we need to make sure we expand in areas that play the game, Perth is a great candidate, but it won't be ready for at least another 5-10 years, unless there's a relocation, or some other way to boost their lower grade talent, we can't have too many teams in the comp just being leeches of other RL areas, they need to be giving back, Melbourne is an exception since it has 9+ AFL teams in its backyard.
 

MugaB

Coach
Messages
15,060
Just like "penis envy" is a recognized psychological condition, it would seem that GROTD,Perth Red and flippikat (aka Larry,Moe and Curly) suffer from "market envy" with their obsession over where the AFL have teams.Perhaps if they sought help with their mental problems the rest of us wouldn't have to put up with their incessant whinging about the game.
How come the AFL don't have a NZ or Townsville team yet?
 

MugaB

Coach
Messages
15,060
I agree but it is chicken and egg somewhat. AFL has opened up a massive revenue gap largely by expanding into a national comp with australia wide appeal for sponsors and tv. How will the NRL significantly increase revenue if it stays the same? A ninth game will bring in more money but that is likely to just pay for the tw new clubs it requires. If they are two more existing markets then it does little to inflate revenue beyond cost.
NRL has markets AFL doesn't, NZ, ACT, QLD
(Seriously is there Lions/Suns fans getting eyes on adverts)
Its like saying AFL is gaining traction in western sydney... ohhh rigghhht its the long game they're playing...
 

MugaB

Coach
Messages
15,060
Very good question. Maybe they should relocate Collingwood or Geelong there.
That's stupid, you're stupid, don't you know how rich Collingwood is, eddie maguire wants you to be a millionaire. Dont you understand the MARKET!!! ive got graphs that have decided my narrative, and Collingwood is the "Affluent" club we need to keep..
And Geeeelong is a looong way from NZ
The colors are all different, you're a moron! can't you see how you're just wrong, my algorithms dictate that AFL is strong in all metrics that matter, and 9 teams in one Market just doesnt work pal!
that's my team you're relocating dude....
Lets just cull them both instead, there's too many Victorian teams anyway, i want a team in hobart and canberra before we EXPAND into China
 
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MugaB

Coach
Messages
15,060
That's stupid, you're stupid, don't you know how rich Collingwood is, eddie maguire wants you to be a millionaire.
And Geeeelong is a looong way from NZ
The colors are all different, you're a moron, that's my team you're relocating dude....
Lets just cull them both instead, there's too many Victorian teams anyway, i want a team in hobart and canberra before we EXPAND into China
Sorry lets move St.Kilda to Darwin, that's a better fit, coz Darwin needs a team, and St.kilda has low crowds, here ill post you 2019s stats
 

titoelcolombiano

First Grade
Messages
6,633
I think that's exactly what should have happened. Traditional Sydney clubs being shareholders in new teams - with the new teams being self-governing in themselves (ie no boardroom factions between the different shareholder clubs just causing strife like we've seen with joint ventures in the last two decades).

Silent partners, if you will - with all the ex-NSWRL clubs in the 2nd tier NSW Cup - a traditional competition, well funded & covered in the media.

Brisbane had to subsume their traditional clubs into a 2nd tier when the Broncos kicked-off, and Auckland with the Warriors (although NZ was always very much a poor cousin), so why not Sydney?
Yes, Newcastle the same and probably Canberra and the game is bigger in all of those areas now than it was then. There is no evidence that Sydney would be any different, especially if you treat the traditional clubs and the NSWRL comp with the funding and respect it deserves to carry forward the legacy of the game at the correct level to allow growth at the top level and make the sport bigger overall.
 
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blaza88z

Coach
Messages
15,186
I believe Sydney is over saturated but you can't just chop existing brands willy nilly. First of all the broadcasters wont pay anywhere near as much for a comp that has the South East Sydney Wombats, North Shore Dingos, Southern Sting rays etc.... They are paying money for the Rabbitohs, the Eels, the Dragons. The fact is the clubs and players bring in the revenue, not the NRL or the game itself.

Bring them all in, make it a 32 team comp

Rocky Rumblers, Innisfail Iguanas, The Bundy Brawlers.. who gives a shit at this point
 

MugaB

Coach
Messages
15,060
Yes, Newcastle the same and probably Canberra and the game is bigger in all of those areas now than it was then. There is no evidence that Sydney would be any different, especially if you treat the traditional clubs with respect and like you say, give the NSWRL the funding and respect it deserves to carry forward the legacy of the game at the correct level to allow growth at the top level and make the sport bigger overall.
I'll tell you why, those places you're using as an example are expansion areas, think about that, coz if you shrink your heartland you'll end up like A-league, or Union, the core Sydney sides are the base, and even tho i loath to say this, but AFL is right to place their teams where they are, they have their heartland in a city of 5 million, and have expanded out from it, they aren't going to shrink Victoria just to add NZ or Townsville, NRL has the same with Sydney, we just have a different branches of the same type of tree, but we have a chance to create 2 or 3 city heartland Areas, where AFL might only be able to only do Perth and Melbourne
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,551
I agree, but now isn't the time to start throwing money at either state of Wa/Sa in regards to propping up a 1st grade NRL side in Perth or Adelaide, when there's no real team or base to build off right now, the current expansion bids are all setup from QLD cup teams, the jump to NRL level won't be as hard, compared to starting from scratch in a non heartland area, ala "Melbourne Storm" where it's nessesary to prop it up for the next 10-15 years before its viable as they are now, even then Victoria is not producing many juniors in comparison to any of the other clubs that are in Nsw/Qld/Nz, we need to make sure we expand in areas that play the game, Perth is a great candidate, but it won't be ready for at least another 5-10 years, unless there's a relocation, or some other way to boost their lower grade talent, we can't have too many teams in the comp just being leeches of other RL areas, they need to be giving back, Melbourne is an exception since it has 9+ AFL teams in its backyard.
Don’t disagree but you need to start somewhere at some time! We keep saying “Not now“ for a variety of ever changing reasons, like somehow it will magically happen that the time is now. Set a strategy, set a timeline, put in place actions. Then the time will be now, eventually.
I think comparing potential start up of perth to the situation melbourne started in is a bit of a furphy tbh. We have 3 multi millionaires willing to back the team, we have a reasonable stadium, we have a 20kpkus active fan base, we have a suppoortive state goft and we have a reasonable jnr foundation. None of this was in place when Storm where admitted, on the back of the disaster of SL I might add, adding Adelaide now would be much more akin to the Storm start up scenario. I think it showed with the investment their owners then the league had to make in them. Having said that if the nrl got a return from every club that it’s now getting from having a club in melbourne, for $30 million investment over 6 years it would be well worth it!
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,551
I don't disagree, but that's not my point
Well it kind of is! Afl hq know melbourne is over saturated and would love to remove a couple of the struggling clubs and move them to new markets. They tried desperately to get someone to move to Gold Coast. If tassie had more population and was more financially viable I’m sure they’d be pushing hawthorn into a move. If nrl wants to keep its Sydney footprint that’s fine, but don’t hold back growing the game into new markets because of it. of we do then we will only fall further and further behind until afl is the undisputed number one code. That would be a shame for RL.
 

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