"It’s very realistic to say that we’ll have a second team in Brisbane in 2023": V'landys

[MugaB]

Well it kind of is! Afl hq know melbourne is over saturated and would love to remove a couple of the struggling clubs and move them to new markets. They tried desperately to get someone to move to Gold Coast. If tassie had more population and was more financially viable I’m sure they’d be pushing hawthorn into a move. If nrl wants to keep its Sydney footprint that’s fine, but don’t hold back growing the game into new markets because of it. of we do then we will only fall further and further behind until afl is the undisputed number one code. That would be a shame for RL.

Yeah well i'd rather have both then, be just all business and population stats, AFL might be strategically placed now, but they'll never be able be everywhere, thats where League has them covered, yes there isn't a perth team now, but there will be.. you guys are just too impatient, i wanna see Brisbane expand, they deserve it more than any other city, with atleast 2 more SEQ teams there

 

[Perth Red]

Yeah well i'd rather have both then, be just all business and population stats, AFL might be strategically place now, but they'll never be able be everywhere, thats where League has them covered, yes there isn't a perth team now, but there will be.. you guys are just too impatient, i wanna see Brisbane expand, they deserve it more than any other city

Agreed, Brisbane2 has to be next. Then Perth, and I'd be saying that even if I wasn't a RL fan in Perth desperate for a club to follow locally lol
Perth has so much going for it and if NRl can be successful here it could be huge for the game in the same way the game was growing so strongly here in the early 90's. Then NZ2 is the next obvious IF there is a popualtion centre that can support it, then we SHOULD be ready for Adelaide as we SHOULD have put ten years strategic prep work into it. Grow or wither, at the moment we arent growing. Sydney should the strong foundation that the game grows from, but it isnt and seems to be holding growth back rather than creating opportunity to flourish.

I wouldnt say we are impatient, we have been waiting for the game at top level to return for nearly 25 years!!

 

[Perth Red]

Broncos head of football Ben Ikin has welcomed the idea of a second Brisbane NRL franchise from the 2023 season.

With the NRL likely to hand Queensland’s capital city a second side, Ikin believes it will “only be a good thing” as rivalries help drive clubs to be better.




Joining SEN 1170 Afternoons with Jimmy Smith, Ikin was asked about his club’s stance on the potential start-up team.

“I haven’t had a discussion with the broader business, the board will have a position on that I’d think,” Ikin said.

“My personal opinion is that rivalries are healthy, the closer they are, the more in your face they are, the more it drives you to be better.”

While Ikin is in support for the NRL’s expansion model, he has his “doubts” about whether the competition is ready to add clubs from a financial perspective.

“I think it would be good for rugby league in Brisbane, but I don’t know if financially it stacks up for the game yet,” Ikin added.

“That’ll be a decision made by the ARL commission, I do have my doubts about whether or not we’re ready from that perspective.

“But in terms of rugby league and what it would do for the Broncos - this is a great club, that’s done great things, that’s on it’s way forward to doing great things again – if we had a local rival it would help drive us.

“I think that can only be a good thing.”

A decision on the NRL’s 17th franchise is expected in the coming months, with bids coming from the Brisbane Jets, Brisbane Firehawks and Redcliffe Dolphins.

Will a 17th franchise in Brisbane benefit the Broncos?

“I think that can only be a good thing.”

www.sen.com.au

 

[MugaB]

Agreed, Brisbane2 has to be next. Then Perth, and I'd be saying that even if I wasn't a RL fan in Perth desperate for a club to follow locally lol
Perth has so much going for it and if NRl can be successful here it could be huge for the game in the same way the game was growing so strongly here in the early 90's. Then NZ2 is the next obvious IF there is a popualtion centre that can support it, then we SHOULD be ready for Adelaide as we SHOULD have put ten years strategic prep work into it. Grow or wither, at the moment we arent growing. Sydney should the strong foundation that the game grows from, but it isnt and seems to be holding growth back rather than creating opportunity to flourish.

I wouldnt say we are impatient, we have been waiting for the game at top level to return for nearly 25 years!!

So has North sydney, Adelaide and Newtown, but league doesn't follow the top down approach your wanting, its hasn't worked in Melbourne= a city of 5 million, you must know the NRL don't want another Titans Franchise right? They would much prefer a Burleigh Bears promoted, and them paying their way into the league, not the NRL funding the expansion, what you want is a Melbourne Storm, Adelaide Rams or Hunter Mariners, just plonk a bunch of mercs in a new city and hopefully the city embraces them till the local juniors take over.....

 

[Jim Rockford]

just plonk a bunch of mercs in a new city and hopefully the city embraces them till the local juniors take over.....

So when is this going to happen in Melbourne? 2130,2150 or never. I'm going with never.

 

[Perth Red]

So has North sydney, Adelaide and Newtown, but league doesn't follow the top down approach your wanting, its hasn't worked in Melbourne= a city of 5 million, you must know the NRL don't want another Titans Franchise right? They would much prefer a Burleigh Bears promoted, and them paying their way into the league, not the NRL funding the expansion, what ypu want is a Melbourne storm, Adelaide Rams or Hunter Mariners, just plonk the mercs in a new city and hopefully the city embraces them till the local juniors take over.....

When you say it hasnt worked in Melbourne, only from a amateur player registration point of view, and thats the responsibility of the NRL/NRLVic not the Melbourne Storm.
Storm are one of the most popular and valuable clubs in the NRL, and making a profit, suggesting it has worked very well in Melbourne from the point of view of KPI's for bringing in a top tier club.
But again Perth and Melbourne are not the same, we have a jnr foundation that is growing nicely plus all the other things I mentioned previously that differs our start up from theirs.
If I'm a RL fan in Nth Sydney or Newtown I've got a plethora of top tier clubs I could watch live on my doorstep, it shouldn't need to be called after my suburb to be of interest to me, that's the old school NSWRL thinking that has got us into a stagnant mess we are in.
Problem with the no investment in growth model is you are then reliant on growing the top tier of the game being linked to pokie clubs, which means no growth outside of traditional heartlands, and back to our stagnant mess.
Nope I want the ARLC/State orgs to do their job to develop the game at grassroots, with a top tier club giving the game the media and public profile to encourage kids to play it and dream of making the NRL for your cities club.
It isnt an and and or, its a both for it to be successful. Melbournes Jnr problems are because the NRL has not invested what it needs to to grow the game at a jnr level.
We have two WA jnrs making their NRL debuts this season so far, I want that to be a dozen every year but to do that we need a full pathway to the top here.

 

[MugaB]

So when is this going to happen in Melbourne? 2130,2150 or never. I'm going with never.

Well thats the thing, if anything its become a draft of sorts for the qld cup sides, and im ok with that, coz qld is serverly under presented, but t hat has nothing to do with the BRL or ARL or SL, is more to do with the commision prior to peter beattie, plodding along doing f**k all, guys like john grant, and most of dicks before him...
Arko was great, the balls to introduce 2 QLD teams, Perth and NZ... another fkn country seriously thats balls, yes its wasnt fairy tale endings, but it got started and cowboys and warriors are mainstays of the comp now.. im a fan of PVL, i get thats not popular, but i see his broader strokes, yes bullish, annoyingly arrogant decisions, "dictatorship"
But its a sport, seriously is not a government of a country, its not politics, its a sports admin role, he is a smart operator, and im moreso happier he is on League's side than against it, and he'll my tick of approval as soon as expansion is set... sounds blissfully ignorant, but again its sport, and for me if i get to see another few expansion teams enter the comp, ill be happy

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Thats a nice screenshot, using one year to justify the narrative... classic donkey dribble
Lets look at 2018 shall we... do you know why theres a difference dipshit?
View attachment 50466

Cronulla were still in the bottom four, well behind North Queensland. St George were only mid-range. Cowboys had a horrible run in 2018 and 2019, so for them to still be ahead of Cronulla in both years and St George in one of them, is a sad indictment on the two Southern Sydney clubs.

Didn't St George make the top 8 in 2018 and flog the Broncos at Lang Park in the first week of he finals?

So when Cowboys finish down the bottom and St George make the finals, Kogarah and Wollongong are able to draw 1,200 more fans out of the cobwebs. When the team is shit they go back to not attending games.

Congratulations, you've proven that Southern Sydney doesn't have the population or the passion to support two clubs.

 

[Jim Rockford]

When you say it hasnt worked in Melbourne, only from a amateur player registration point of view, and thats the responsibility of the NRL/NRLVic not the Melbourne Storm.

Here we go again. The old "Why should we work when someone else can do it for us" It's that sense of entitlement that means the Drizzle will always be a hated club.

Problem with the no investment in growth model is you are then reliant on growing the top tier of the game being linked to pokie clubs, which means no growth outside of traditional heartlands, and back to our stagnant mess.

Wrong yet again. Souths have proven unequivocally that a club can prosper and thrive without any pokie revenue whatsoever. How does it feel to be wrong time and time again yet still peddle the same flawed arguments to try to justify your misguided view of the game?

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

When coming to crowds, I like to see how a team draws H&A

Why?

The only people who say this are fans of Sydney clubs, which I suspect is due to their fanbases being so small that they need opposition fans to attend to make the attendance figures respectable. If a Sharks vs Titans/Cowbpys/Raiders game at Endeavor draws 8k then that gives you an idea of how many passionate supporters that club has. Sydney fans perform all sorts of mental gymnastics when confronted with this reality to paint interstate clubs as useless.

 

[Perth Red]

Why?

The only people who say this are fans of Sydney clubs, which I suspect is due to their fanbases being so small that they need opposition fans to attend to make the attendance figures respectable. If a Sharks vs Titans/Cowbpys/Raiders game at Endeavor draws 8k then that gives you an idea of how many passionate supporters that club has. Sydney fans perform all sorts of mental gymnastics when confronted with this reality to paint interstate clubs as useless.

given the opportunity to attract "away' team fans. Sydney attendances should be at least 25% more than non sydney clubs, if the place wasn't oversaturated and the clubs werent lazy. .

 

[Jim Rockford]

given the opportunity to attract "away' team fans. Sydney attendances should be at least 25% more than non sydney clubs, if the place wasn't oversaturated and the clubs werent lazy. .

The irony is delicious. A Drizzle fan accusing Sydney clubs of being lazy when he admits the Drizzle won't cultivate juniors because (as he says) that's for someone else to do. How he can type that with a straight face is beyond me, unless he truly is the pathetic little AFL troll I strongly suspect he is.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

given the opportunity to attract "away' team fans. Sydney attendances should be at least 25% more than non sydney clubs, if the place wasn't oversaturated and the clubs werent lazy. .

Six teams, strategically placed around Sydney, would do more for RL than the nine they currently have.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

The irony is delicious. A Drizzle fan accusing Sydney clubs of being lazy when he admits the Drizzle won't cultivate juniors because (as he says) that's for someone else to do. How he can type that with a straight face is beyond me, unless he truly is the pathetic little AFL troll I strongly suspect he is.

The nine Sydney clubs are built on the back of the amateur clubs within their catchment. The amateur clubs are propped up by passionate mums and dads who fund the teams. Take away the amateur clubs and the nine Sydney NRL clubs would be f**ked.

It took the NSWRL over 100 years to get to RL in Sydney where it is today, with many leg ups from favourable legislation that allowed their clubs to draw revenue from a source that was off limits to clubs north of the Tweed until the 1990s.

If you want to see something similar in Adelaide, Melbourne and Perth you'll need to add teams now and fund it for decades. AwFuL has successfully done it.

 

[Jim Rockford]

Hahahaha - GROTDs "market envy" shining through. You really shouldn't judge your worth on what someone else does or doesn't have. Someone like you will always come off second best in that situation.

 

[flippikat]

It took the NSWRL over 100 years to get to RL in Sydney where it is today, with many leg ups from favourable legislation that allowed their clubs to draw revenue from a source that was off limits to clubs north of the Tweed until the 1990s.

Exactly. The Sydney clubs largely got to the privileged position they're in today off the back of gambling money.

Privilige is privilige, and the "we deserve 9 teams in top tier" arguments show that through & through.

Most rationalization proponents here are NOT asking for the clubs to simply cease to exist or go into liquidation - just to either relocate or step back to a state-cup level (either with or without shareholding in an NRL team that remains in top tier).

All the clubs that exit the NRL would still exist, just at the 2nd tier.. and if the 2nd tier can get a higher profile then it could be a great part of the game's tapestry. We're already seeing some of that with Newtown & Norths in NSW Cup.

 

[Jim Rockford]

...and here's Larry. We've got all Three Stooges in attendance today.

 

[flippikat]

Broncos head of football Ben Ikin has welcomed the idea of a second Brisbane NRL franchise from the 2023 season.

With the NRL likely to hand Queensland’s capital city a second side, Ikin believes it will “only be a good thing” as rivalries help drive clubs to be better.




Joining SEN 1170 Afternoons with Jimmy Smith, Ikin was asked about his club’s stance on the potential start-up team.

“I haven’t had a discussion with the broader business, the board will have a position on that I’d think,” Ikin said.

“My personal opinion is that rivalries are healthy, the closer they are, the more in your face they are, the more it drives you to be better.”

While Ikin is in support for the NRL’s expansion model, he has his “doubts” about whether the competition is ready to add clubs from a financial perspective.

“I think it would be good for rugby league in Brisbane, but I don’t know if financially it stacks up for the game yet,” Ikin added.

“That’ll be a decision made by the ARL commission, I do have my doubts about whether or not we’re ready from that perspective.

“But in terms of rugby league and what it would do for the Broncos - this is a great club, that’s done great things, that’s on it’s way forward to doing great things again – if we had a local rival it would help drive us.

“I think that can only be a good thing.”

A decision on the NRL’s 17th franchise is expected in the coming months, with bids coming from the Brisbane Jets, Brisbane Firehawks and Redcliffe Dolphins.

Will a 17th franchise in Brisbane benefit the Broncos?

“I think that can only be a good thing.”

www.sen.com.au

Good to see this thread being steered back on track.. and refreshing to hear Ikin backing a 2nd Brisbane team in concept.

Sure, reservations exist in terms of the games' finances.. but that's where the question needs to be asked by the interviewer about an 18th team.. the point being that a 17th team adds more if there's also an 18th team (thus an extra game per weekend), especially if the 18th is in a place that offers extra scheduling options (NZ 2 or Perth).

I think the 18th team is a dimension that's being lost in this tussle over Brisbane 2. The NRL should either make a call on their preferred 18th team NOW ("After Brisbane is decided, we will commence work with *location* to add our 18th team there soon after").. or already be sounding out the need for interested parties to sharpen their business cases for that 18th team.. with a view to make a decision on THAT next year.

Either choose the winner for team 18, or declare the contest open.

 

[Perth Red]

Good to see this thread being steered back on track.. and refreshing to hear Ikin backing a 2nd Brisbane team in concept.

Sure, reservations exist in terms of the games' finances.. but that's where the question needs to be asked by the interviewer about an 18th team.. the point being that a 17th team adds more if there's also an 18th team (thus an extra game per weekend), especially if the 18th is in a place that offers extra scheduling options (NZ 2 or Perth).

I think the 18th team is a dimension that's being lost in this tussle over Brisbane 2. The NRL should already be sounding out the need for interested parties to sharpen their business cases for that 18th team.. with a view to make a decision on THAT next year.

Problem is NRL has already negotiated 2 of the 3 main TV deals so the opportunity to negotiate extra value out of a ninth game has been lost. Brisbane2 is only being talked about as they think they can get Ch9 to pay for it in the yet to be started fta tv negotiations. Only way a ninth game can now be included in TV increased revenue is if it is sold to FTA OR if a ninth game isn't included in the agreement so far and can be sold separately, which is highly unlikely. For FTA to pay for it they would want a Saturday night game and we can be pretty sure Fox has already locked that up.
Vlandys signing up to Fox and Sky before the extra game is on the table has sadly put back hopes of further expansion at least 5-6 years. AFL sources reckon their ninth game expansion was worth $52mill a year extra in the last TV deal hence why they could expand where strategically they thought it long term important and pay for it themselves.

 

[flippikat]

Problem is NRL has already negotiated 2 of the 3 main TV deals so the opportunity to negotiate extra value out of a ninth game has been lost. Brisbane2 is only being talked about as they think they can get Ch9 to pay for it in the yet to be started fta tv negotiations. Only way a ninth game can now be included in TV increased revenue is if it is sold to FTA OR if a ninth game isn't included in the agreement so far and can be sold separately, which is highly unlikely. For FTA to pay for it they would want a Saturday night game and we can be pretty sure Fox has already locked that up.
Vlandys signing up to Fox and Sky before the extra game is on the table has sadly put back hopes of further expansion at least 5-6 years. AFL sources reckon their ninth game expansion was worth $52mill a year extra in the last TV deal hence why they could expand where strategically they thought it long term important and pay for it themselves.

If the NRL have genuinely snookered themselves out of capitalizing from a 9th game until 2028 (Given that current Fox/Sky deals run to end of 2027), then I can understand the talk about possibly moving Brisbane 2's debut from 2023 out to 2024 or 2025.

Assuming we go to 18 teams in 2028, a 2024 debut for B2 would mean 4 years of 17 teams, 2025 would mean 3 years of 17 teams... either way, this decade would be pretty much lost time.