It's too easy to put all the blame on football

[$$Poor Boy Blues$$]

she is awesome. love her. brilliant.

kiki, she is right on the money for mine too.

Being a female, you may already know of what I am about to speak..but for everyone else.

IN GENERAL: everywhere, men are becoming less of men, and women, frankly are becoming more women.

remember that since humans/apes have had hands, they have been changing the world and changing themselves...

the disparity has been created by many things including religion, feminism, politics, womens magazines, etc.

struggling with words just now, but men by and large have been left behind in the "race" to become men. the roles of men and women is changing dramatically everywhere, but men are getting lost more easily: for instance men are finding less room in life to demonstrate man traits that typically defined him in the past (hunting, earning the money soley, etc).

Also, he has less of an ability now to adapt. Young girls learn women traits all the way from birth....my own daughter has discovered hand bags, hats and fashion in general and loves it...she is only 17 months. Where is the room for fathers to do the same and follow it all the way up to the age of 18? You will find that few know how, if its even possible in this day and age at all....point is if the role models are being diluted, what hope do the kids have?

I may make it sound clinical here - its not in reality - But she has an unbroken opportunity along with guidance from her mum (and dad) on how to maximize her potential as a person, a female person.

Anyway, most young men these days have simply lost their way. I say this because the ultimate test on how much of a man you are, is indeed how attractive you are. This is the core biological value that defines men....money and material things are just extensions of core qualities called "power" and "status". Ok, well if not in total in many men, then definately dilution persists amongst the majority of the population.

As society fails to provide decent role models for young men, its providing exceptional role models for women in the women of today.

The main problem i have with relegion is that it gets people to deny their natural urges in many cases, and to a large extent footy does the same. Its hard to train and abstain so much.

Anyway got to go, a point for another time perhaps. Simply, men are losing their way, and women have it all over them a lot of the time. Its no wonder that 85% of relationships are ones where the woman is unhappy. But remember its a mans job to please her, as women always do the choosing.

If there is one statistic that lets it known how badly men are doing in general, its that one, coupled with natures unbroken law of women doing the chosing. (it happens in almost every species, and humans are no different in their mating rituals).

Must say: none of that is an excuse for men.

Its up to men to become real men. Its only that its harder in life today, but in saying that, most guys are pussies on many levels. Fear rules them.

 

[Pete Cash]

This above post brought you by a total maniac.

Humans have been defying their natural instincts and urges for about 5000 years. The very fact we have got to this point is largely because we essentially spit at our nature. If anything human nature is to push at our boundaries as hard as possible. That includes societal norms, values and customs.

I often cringe at appeals to nature, because if something wasn't human nature... then why do humans think it ??

I mean here we are, living in houses, wearing clothes, using computers outside of traditional hunter gatherer tribes. Our societies are a lot more competitive than tribal societies. Human nature is to go against human nature.

 

[warren]

ok then, but where then are they getting these collated results?

If you tella friend or counsellor (i thought they were confidential) do they go and report it to some register who then tallies up all reported unreporteed offenses?

Still not sure how accurate this is or is its simply a guestimation.

there have been two major surveys done by the ABS in recent times that are confidental and aim to get an idea of how widespread violence against women is. there was the womens safety survey (96) and the personal safety survey (05). so it is very easy for a lady to tick 'yes' to being abused by her husband, and 'no' to reporting it.

 

[rabbitohs]

never mind eh

 

[Simo]

there have been two major surveys done by the ABS in recent times that are confidental and aim to get an idea of how widespread violence against women is. there was the womens safety survey (96) and the personal safety survey (05). so it is very easy for a lady to tick 'yes' to being abused by her husband, and 'no' to reporting it.

cheers for the info, so there is a collatted set of stats, and I see who they get teh info without reporting it.

If you know does this survey distinguish what is sexual assault?

i.e. does rape get thrown in with the same category of a Dane Tilse grope or a wolf whistle out the window?

I still find it hard to believe 85% of rapes could go unreported to police. I boob grab, verbal assaullt or something I could see but man not rape.

 

[drake]

There could be a thousand reasons why someone would a bloke would do this kind of thing.

There are no excuses.

This isn't a footballer thing, but many footballers are the stereotype of wife beaters. Big brainless thugs that use physical power to get what they want. Plenty of weedy little nerds with a high IQ beat or assault women and kids. Not every rapist could make the local footy side.

I couldn't care less what we are designed to do as "human animals", we have moved so far from our natural state that these arguments bear no relevance. What the hell is natural about watching 26 blokes trying to get an inflated piece of pigskin down opposing ends of a grass field?

The empowerment of women is not a contributer; it's a paltry excuse for being a coward. These issues were institutionalised and commonplace back when "men were men" and women couldn't go potty without a man's permission. Anyone remember what 'the Rule of thumb" means?

As a father of two teenage girls, I've worried over this for years.

I've made sure that my girls have learned self defense, are aware of what goes on around them, and made them completely comfortable with talking to me about anything. But there is a limit on what anyone can do to stop this thing from happening to them on an individual basis. We as people have to stop this

To quote Edmund Burke: ‘The only thing necessary for the triumph [of evil] is for good men to do nothing.’

Take out the gender issue, it's quite simply someone abusing someone who has no ability to defend themselves. Happens amongst gay men quite a lot as well.

I used to get the crap beaten out of me by daughter's mum, because she knew I wouldn't hit her back. Same sh*t, different smell, but it was my choice just to cop it sweet. Most battered or assaulted women and kids aren't getting a choice.

Domestic violence, regardless of gender, let's just say Hell No!

All that said, I'm not sure I'd want anything reported if, God forbid, anything like this happened to my daughters.

I wouldn't want anything to tie me to the murder of the piece of sh*t coward.

 

[Pete Cash]

cheers for the info, so there is a collatted set of stats, and I see who they get teh info without reporting it.

If you know does this survey distinguish what is sexual assault?

i.e. does rape get thrown in with the same category of a Dane Tilse grope or a wolf whistle out the window?

I still find it hard to believe 85% of rapes could go unreported to police. I boob grab, verbal assaullt or something I could see but man not rape.

Rape is very hard to prove. Unless it is a 16 year old virgin on her way home from church who is raped by an escaped rapist and a police officer witnesses the act then its likely going to be a massive sh*t fight in court.

Just read the Brett Stewart thread or any thread on rape that will pop up here. Many people have shocking attitudes to the crime. Trying to pass some of the responsibility onto the woman as if a man cannot help but be a rape machine under some circumstances.

So lets say they manage to survive being raped they are left feeling awful and vulnerable, but they don't want to relive the entire situation in a court room because the dude's law team is going to throw everything including the kitchen sink at the woman to make her look like a stupid lying whore.

The easiest way to escape a rape conviction is to put doubt on the word of the victim, because in many of these cases it is she said he said and with the burden of proof being so tight (and so it should be) all a bloke has to do is convince a jury that it MIGHT have been consensual or that she MIGHT be a lying "s**t".

 

[warren]

cheers for the info, so there is a collatted set of stats, and I see who they get teh info without reporting it.

If you know does this survey distinguish what is sexual assault?

i.e. does rape get thrown in with the same category of a Dane Tilse grope or a wolf whistle out the window?

I still find it hard to believe 85% of rapes could go unreported to police. I boob grab, verbal assaullt or something I could see but man not rape.

I believe it does.

the personal safety survey gives this definition:
Sexual violence includes sexual assault and sexual threat. Sexual assault is defined as an act of a sexual nature carried out against a person's will. Sexual threats are threats of sexual assault which a person believed were likely to be carried out.

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/cat/4906.0

and the womens safety survey says in the glossary somewhere (cant be bothered looking for it) that acts of sexual assualt are not seperated, it could include sexual advances as well as rape. ​

also the main reason assualts are left unreported is feelings of shame, believe it or not.​

 

[Simo]

I believe it does.

the personal safety survey gives this definition:
Sexual violence includes sexual assault and sexual threat. Sexual assault is defined as an act of a sexual nature carried out against a person's will. Sexual threats are threats of sexual assault which a person believed were likely to be carried out.

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/cat/4906.0

and the womens safety survey says in the glossary somewhere (cant be bothered looking for it) that acts of sexual assualt are not seperated, it could include sexual advances as well as rape. ​

also the main reason assualts are left unreported is feelings of shame, believe it or not.​

When I read the original article and the 85% of SA's go unreported stat came up, I assumed that meant rape.

But if they are ticking boxes saying 'have you been sexually assaulted' and 'did you report it' and that could mean anything from a 'nice tits call' at a pub to rape I think it misleads the stats as there is a massive difference between actual rape and other things that fall into the category.

So I would be interested in how many rapes go unreported because along with feelings of guilt and what not, a lot of things unreported could simply be things people dont feel need reporting i.e. they can handle some yobbo saying something sexually derogative to them or a boss making a pass at them.

But the one point I do take and think is awful in both your and Pete Cashs posts are that in some cases women feel ashamed or that they will be potrayed as s**ts or something if they tell there story and as such some ass wipe gets away with rape.

A sad situation and one I dont know how to solve.

The main reason I am interested in the stats and separating them from other forms of SA is that I feel rape is a hideous crime and on a whole new level of distaste than many of the other things deemed SA.

Unless of course they put some things in sexual harrasment on the form as opposed to assault in which case my above rant is obsolete as it already has been seperated.

 

[warren]

When I read the original article and the 85% of SA's go unreported stat came up, I assumed that meant rape.

But if they are ticking boxes saying 'have you been sexually assaulted' and 'did you report it' and that could mean anything from a 'nice tits call' at a pub to rape I think it misleads the stats as there is a massive difference between actual rape and other things that fall into the category.

well theyre not specifically seperated i.e rape, boob grab etc. sexual assault includes some kind of force so a 'nice tits call' doesnt get factored in that stat. its the 'force' part that seperates harrassment or threats to assault, so although rape is probably the worst end of the scale, any kind of forced sexual advance is pretty disgusting

 

[Simo]

well theyre not specifically seperated i.e rape, boob grab etc. sexual assault includes some kind of force so a 'nice tits call' doesnt get factored in that stat. its the 'force' part that seperates harrassment or threats to assault, so although rape is probably the worst end of the scale, any kind of forced sexual advance is pretty disgusting

ok, thanks again for clarifying.

oh and just thought id mention, I agree that totally that any kind of forced sexual advance is disgusting and am not trying to justidy it in any way, just think actually getting raped is far worse than some sleazy grabbing (I know which one would scar you mentally for life is what im saying.)

 

[Kiki]

simo im assuming you're a guy yes?? i think it's hard for you to understand what it's like for a woman who's been assaulted.

i don't think you understand that sexual assault and rape dont all happen in a dark alley by a stranger holding a knife to their throat. it isn't black and white. most of it is very much a grey area. murky and scary and confusing.

theres alot of reasons women don't report rape....one of the major ones being they feel ashamed and like it was their fault. they should have 'known better'.

alot of the time they go into complete denial and don't even realise it was rape until later on and by then they feel its too late. sadly, i can speak from personal experience here.

 

[Bobby DIGital]

I'm really sorry to hear that Kiki. It's very nice to see your name (and avatar lol) back on the forums again though. How was America?

 

[Kiki]

hi Bobby!! yes thought I should make a return as the season kicks off again.

America was amaaaazing. we've written 3 posts about it on Errol!

re the assault stuff. i didnt say that to get sympathy or anything, it was 12 years ago and i'm fine now. i was just trying to explain to Simo its too easy to just be like 'oh but who wouldnt report it?'. its such a complicated issue.

 

[Bobby DIGital]

I'm sure most can see a strong woman such as yourself wasn't searching for sympathy.

Yeah, I was having an Errol browse during my down time at work today. Looks like you had mad fun. I wouldn't mind going to Florida myself actually. See any high rollin Cuban drug lords around? Or any random Aligator sightings?

 

[Kiki]

oh god dont go to florida. its awful! well Jacksonville was heaps fun but that was mainly coz we were hanging with the Axemen and they showed us a great time, bless their hearts.

 

[Bobby DIGital]

LOL The Axeman. Even in America you're partying with footy blokes. That's a gangsa-ass name by the way...Axemen.

LMFAO @ You and Sassy going all the way over there to witness Hanson play on a cruise ship. That is awesome on so many levels. You two are craaaazy lol.

 

[Kiki]

hahahah i know we are completely unhinged. good times.

 

[t1tan]

Anyhow,back on topic..

 

[$$Poor Boy Blues$$]

This above post brought you by a total maniac.

Humans have been defying their natural instincts and urges for about 5000 years. The very fact we have got to this point is largely because we essentially spit at our nature. If anything human nature is to push at our boundaries as hard as possible. That includes societal norms, values and customs.

I often cringe at appeals to nature, because if something wasn't human nature... then why do humans think it ??

I mean here we are, living in houses, wearing clothes, using computers outside of traditional hunter gatherer tribes. Our societies are a lot more competitive than tribal societies. Human nature is to go against human nature.

human nature is to go against human nature?

wtf!

you have no idea. I am no maniac.

What you are refering to is culture, dear boy.

Look it up, and it has nothing to do with human nature. It has more to with politics than human nature.

Humans are evolving all the time.

Its pretty simple, you have no clue - sorry - but you don't.

We are actually here to absorb other cells, we now do this by eating food. We are governed only by our genes, of which everything else is a 'slave' to. In order for our genes to survive, we pass them on to our young.

You see, our bodies are but shells. And you have a lot to learn.

Humans have not been defying their natural instincts and urges for 5000 years; we may try to suppress them but they always surface. Your brain is a collection of what could be called "base" or "absolute" commands, and it must carry them out. We cannot go against our nature. No matter how hard we try.

We struggle with ourselves because we have a whole heap of evolutionary left-overs, that were at one time extremely useful, but these days in our manipulated and fast-changing world are not so useful anymore.

Go and read a bit more. Your fundamentals are way wrong.

Did you know that human nature is often contradictory for instance? Or that we have 3 separate and distinct parts to our brains? Reptillian, mamilillian and logical? And they are constantly clashing? DO you ever wonder why you could be watching tv, and all of a sudden you get hungry or even sleepy....so what do you do? Which force is stronger? reptillian governs sleep, sex, fight or flight, mamillian governs primarily emotions, and logical problem solving, etc.

(we were not human at this stage) But did you know we only developed brains originally to move muscles, because muscles enabled us to catch food better?

Our end state for our brains (with its logic center and all the rest) was not even thought of when brains came about....

Anyway, you have no bussiness calling people maniacs.

We got to this point????!!! Mate....the human race was at one point almost extinct (or the various humaniod forms, of which there were many)....a catastrophe came about and only one particular type survived, and its surmised they lived in one part of africa.

Humans are here by ABSOLUTE chance. This is just one example...there are other stages of our evolution which we could have become extinct.

We are here by pure luck, pure and simple. God didnt give us this earth, and our future is NOT guaranteed.

Go read, you are way off track. But you are obviously interested in this subject, so I would think you would find a lot of interesting things out there.