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Jason Stevens was a prayer uttering thug

Dazzat

First Grade
Messages
5,919
Hey guess what! You're almost an atheist too! Out of the hundreds of relgions here on earth to reject and not believe in, you only have one more to go.

You do realise that if you grew up in another non anglo/european country, chances are you wouldn't actually know, care for or believe in this right?

Thanks to a thriving underground church, it is estimated that are millions of born-again Christians in communist China where Christianity is banned (there is a state-run church, but it's really just a sham).
 

Goddo

Bench
Messages
4,257
I wonder if any players are in the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I know I am, and pretty sure Frailty is too.

http://www.venganza.org/

The proof goes something like

You can't detect an object as small as a bowl of spaghetti floating around in space, we don't have the technology to do so. That means you can't prove or disprove its existance, however unlikely. Likewise, if you were to claim that the spaghetti is some sort of deity, you can't prove it is or isn't.

Now, assume you believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster's existance, and an event occurs on earth, you apply "post hoc ergo propter hoc" logic to it, and cite divine intervention as the cause.

You can then easily attribute things that are difficult to comprehend, such as death, life, evolution, creation, purpose to the FSM as a way to reasure your mind. The lack of evidence of the FSM's involvement in these things is put down to him testing our faith, or his deliberate interfering with science.

People with power see the faith people have in the FSM, and manipulate its core tenants and story to use it as a form of control. The story grows and grows, gets more and more elaborate over time, contradicting itself on several issues, has to change itself to fit issues that have been solved by other means (science) and eventually faces the problem of being disproven.

So its followers strongly oppose those who question if the FSM ever existed in the first place, which is a valid question.

EDIT: Why would one religion be anymore relevant than another? They are all just as loony as Pastafarianism. What it comes down to is that we are all really agnostic - no one can know for sure if there is or isn't a god, so we should all just stop worrying about it and get on with our lives.

EDIT: Here is what Bertrand Russel suggested in 1952:
http://www.cfpf.org.uk/articles/religion/br/br_god.html

If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.

This sort of group think and indoctrination explains why the Church opposed galileo when he suggested the earth was round, and opposes evolution. Indoctrination also explains the sporting landscape in different countries, most noticably here.
 
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Goddo

Bench
Messages
4,257
Take a look at Mel Gibson's movie The Passion to look at the magnitude of the price He paid. It was a huge price. It was a big sacrifice because he didn't do it for Himself ... he did it for mankind.

Thats your grand proof of the existance of god? Mel Gibson's movie? :lol:
 

Goddo

Bench
Messages
4,257
Note, that Jesus actually split time BC and DC. Yet, despite this amazing claim to fame, most people continue to ignore Him (or use Him as a swear word).

Do you seriously believe this? The concept of time, and dating time is a HUMAN invention. The Vatican at some point was the most powerful organisation in the world, and so they decided to re-date history around Jesus (who did exist as an historical person, there is proof of it, just no proof of his divinity other than hear say of the bible).

You do realise it has been changed several times in the past, and the date they ended up choosing is actually concidered to be a year off the actual date?

What about islam, who's calandar is a good 300 years behind ours? Or in China or India? The western dating was adopted universally simply because it was used by the largest number countries, not representative of the largest number of people. You neglect to mention its BCE and CE now too.

Go and read up about the early years of Christianity, and how they incorporated pagan and roman customs, beliefs and holidays into the religion, and the impact St Paul had on severing ties with Judaism long after Jesus was gone. Go read about the council of Narcea, and how people disagreed wether Jesus was divine or not, and the power politics the church played with the Romans.

Some people blindly believe anything you tell them.
 

Dazzat

First Grade
Messages
5,919
Some people blindly believe anything you tell them.

Yes, that is painfully obvious with so many people falling for whatever the media spins out these days.

I don't believe in Jesus because someone told me. I went to church for years ... literally ... mostly attempting to crack on to the girls in the youth group ... sat through plenty of sermons, but nothing ...

I believe in Jesus because I have had a personal encounter with Him. He changed my life. I had not hope, no idea ... and Jesus changed me. Deep inside I am a different person. I have hope, and I know my eternal destiny without a doubt.

All religions are about man's efforts to reach God through doing stuff ... being good or something.

Christianity (being born again) is about God doing everything (see previous posts) so all man needs to do is ask God to forgive him. Just ask ... that's all it takes.
 

Blind Freddy

Juniors
Messages
830
I believe in Jesus because I have had a personal encounter with Him. He changed my life.
Ok.... Please elaborate on this. You physically had an encounter? You shook hands and met him? or was it internally in your mind, you know, mentally?

Dazzat said:
I had not hope, no idea ... and Jesus changed me. Deep inside I am a different person. I have hope, and I know my eternal destiny without a doubt.

But at the end of the day it was you changing yourself. Being accountable for your own actions. You're not a sock-puppet for a supernatural being or a guy that may or may not have lived 2010 years ago.
 
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Goddo

Bench
Messages
4,257
2011 years ago. They got the date mixed up when they reset the calandar around Jesus, and it is off by a year.
 

Dazzat

First Grade
Messages
5,919
Ok.... Please elaborate on this. You physically had an encounter? You shook hands and met him? or was it internally in your mind, you know, mentally?

But at the end of the day it was you changing yourself. Being accountable for your own actions. You're not a sock-puppet for a supernatural being or a guy that may or may not have lived 2010 years ago.

I tried to change myself ... we all do. Every alcoholic on the face of the planet would love to change ... most can't. Every drug addict on the face of the planet would love to change ... many die before they can. Many gambling addicts want to change ... but can't, and lose families and houses. Many porn addicts say to themselves ... 'that's the last time', but it isn't. Many people who lose their temper, regret it every time, but still do it. Many people determine to lose weight ... but can't. The list goes on and on.

On a bigger scale, we all agree to abolish poverty, but it goes on.

I have met hundreds of people (Christians) who tried to change many times, but couldn't because attempting to change a certain behaviour is often like applying a band-aid.

Jesus changes you from the inside ... your heart ... the rest follows.

In my case I got to a place where my life was out of control (drugs, family breakdown, girlfriend leaving, job in jeopardy), and I said to God something like, "OK, if you are real, I'm ready to give you a go (I'd been to church many times mind you). I can't do this on my own any more. I need you."

And yes, although I didn't see Jesus, I felt his presence, I felt completely different, energised, clean, and several decades later, its still the most influential moment in my life.

(There are many, many stories like many - more much more dramatic).
 

coolumsharkie

Referee
Messages
27,005
Dazzat, it's great to see you had a personal empowering encounter that changed your life.. We should all strive to make the existence of ourselves better and improve on that too so that we may evolve.

The problem I have with religion is that it's always based around human beings self importance unto themselves.

In relation to the universe we are quite insignificant, yet we proclaim religously that Jesus or whatever your chosen religion, is the basis of not only the human experience but of all creation and beyond the physical universe.

It's a big call considering the universe is 13.7 Billion years old, and we've been around for say 500 years tops?

Unless of course you believe in Creationism.. *Giggle.
 

Goddo

Bench
Messages
4,257
The argument they often shoot back is that the bible isn't literal, the stories are there as sort of case studies to a better life.

Ok, if its not ment to be literally interpreted, should we not also apply the same aproach to interpreting Jesus' life? Did he realy rise from the dead, or is it just another case study in better living?

How about those revelations? wow, if ever there was a drug induced or schitzophrenic ramblings of a mad man, that is it.
 

Springs

First Grade
Messages
5,682
The argument that the bible is not literal can be squashed easily by remembering that when it was written it was meant to be literal. The early Christians believed in every word, but once it was disproven they suddenly change their beliefs. I cannot take any religion seriously that changes their belief system so quickly. What will Christianity be like in another 2000 years?
 

Rockin Ronny

Juniors
Messages
1,769
I tried to change myself ... we all do. Every alcoholic on the face of the planet would love to change ... most can't. Every drug addict on the face of the planet would love to change ... many die before they can. Many gambling addicts want to change ... but can't, and lose families and houses. Many porn addicts say to themselves ... 'that's the last time', but it isn't. Many people who lose their temper, regret it every time, but still do it. Many people determine to lose weight ... but can't. The list goes on and on.

On a bigger scale, we all agree to abolish poverty, but it goes on.

I have met hundreds of people (Christians) who tried to change many times, but couldn't because attempting to change a certain behaviour is often like applying a band-aid.

Jesus changes you from the inside ... your heart ... the rest follows.

In my case I got to a place where my life was out of control (drugs, family breakdown, girlfriend leaving, job in jeopardy), and I said to God something like, "OK, if you are real, I'm ready to give you a go (I'd been to church many times mind you). I can't do this on my own any more. I need you."

And yes, although I didn't see Jesus, I felt his presence, I felt completely different, energised, clean, and several decades later, its still the most influential moment in my life.

(There are many, many stories like many - more much more dramatic).

Seriously, you had a pretty sh*tty life for a while, things were tough - but you turned it around. You should be commended. But extrapolating this to credit questionable historical figures 2,000 years ago - when we know history is manipulated by winners - is too big a stretch.

Religion is the opiate of the masses. It's a fair call - and if religion helps you deal with your stuff, fabulous.

But, if Jesus wants me, then he can buy me a beer - and bring the Bears back.
 

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