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John Grant quits....

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,800
And for those who mock afl for the Suns and Giants. Rea.ity is last year those clubs cost the afl about:
Suns $17.1mill
GWS $21.5mill
Total $38.6mill

The ninth game content is estimated to be worth around $57mill

This in reality means the afl has expanded again onto nrl territory and made a $19mill a year profit in doing so!

If the nrl had the balls and the negotiating ability the equivalent would be us bringing in Perth and Adelaide clubs at a cost of around $35 mill a year and selling the ninth game for $45mill a year!

Sources:

Page 145. http://s.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL Tenant/AFL/Files/Images/compressed_2016-AFL-Annual-Report (1).pdf

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...n/news-story/c450f059c9436a8343b81636d0273c52
 

Timmah

LeagueUnlimited News Editor
Staff member
Messages
100,987
Smith gets beaten up over this but here's a fact for you, the nrl spent more on admin costs in the Greenburg era than any year smith was in charge!

Smith era
2013 $17.1mill
2014 $19.3mill
2015 $20.6mill

Greenburg
2016 $21.5mill

Source: https://www.nrl.com/portals/nrl/RadEditor/Documents/2017/NRL-Annual-Report-2016.pdf
Did you just compare 1 year with three, and not allow for inflation or any other natural increases in running costs?

Do you actually think this discussion is as simple as putting numbers next to each other and hoping the mud will stick?
 

Nerd

Bench
Messages
2,827
And for those who mock afl for the Suns and Giants. Rea.ity is last year those clubs cost the afl about:
Suns $17.1mill
GWS $21.5mill
Total $38.6mill

The ninth game content is estimated to be worth around $57mill

This in reality means the afl has expanded again onto nrl territory and made a $19mill a year profit in doing so!

If the nrl had the balls and the negotiating ability the equivalent would be us bringing in Perth and Adelaide clubs at a cost of around $35 mill a year and selling the ninth game for $45mill a year!

Sources:

Page 145. http://s.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL Tenant/AFL/Files/Images/compressed_2016-AFL-Annual-Report (1).pdf

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...n/news-story/c450f059c9436a8343b81636d0273c52
You left out that the Lions cost the AFL $17.5 million. The claimed value for the ninth game sounds to me more like executives trying to cover their arses for the disaster that is the Suns and GWS. If the claimed value is actually true then considering the abysmal ratings both these teams get in their home cities you would think that 7 and Fox would be looking to cut this same $57 million from the next deal. The one laugh I did get having a flick through the 2016 AFL annual report was them claiming that there were 132 890 participants in various countries around the world. Sort of reminds me of the 6000 odd crowd they claimed watched an AFLW game in a ground at Brendale that only holds 3000.
 

Pedge1971

First Grade
Messages
5,898
Did you just compare 1 year with three, and not allow for inflation or any other natural increases in running costs?

Do you actually think this discussion is as simple as putting numbers next to each other and hoping the mud will stick?

Sorry but f**k inflation. If you sign a fixed revenue deal you find a way to reduce costs or find new paths to revenue. Or you do not sign a fixed revenue deal.

And what are your increased running costs?

If it looks like shit, it smells like shit it generally is shit.

Difference with me is I think the clubs are equally to blame for the mess. Zero collaboration..
 

Pedge1971

First Grade
Messages
5,898
Did you just compare 1 year with three, and not allow for inflation or any other natural increases in running costs?

Do you actually think this discussion is as simple as putting numbers next to each other and hoping the mud will stick?

Unless I am wrong which is very possible tonight that report does not publish a balance sheet and notes to which is very troubling.

That report is a piece if shit...
 

BuffaloRules

Coach
Messages
15,548
And for those who mock afl for the Suns and Giants. Rea.ity is last year those clubs cost the afl about:
Suns $17.1mill
GWS $21.5mill
Total $38.6mill

The ninth game content is estimated to be worth around $57mill

This in reality means the afl has expanded again onto nrl territory and made a $19mill a year profit in doing so!

If the nrl had the balls and the negotiating ability the equivalent would be us bringing in Perth and Adelaide clubs at a cost of around $35 mill a year and selling the ninth game for $45mill a year!

Sources:

Page 145. http://s.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL Tenant/AFL/Files/Images/compressed_2016-AFL-Annual-Report (1).pdf

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...n/news-story/c450f059c9436a8343b81636d0273c52

The $57 mil figure is coming from some GWS stooge trying to justify his massive hand out...

Why should this be treated as a fact?

The ninth game doesn't get sold separately as far as I am aware... it's part of the overall package...
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,800
Did you just compare 1 year with three, and not allow for inflation or any other natural increases in running costs?

Do you actually think this discussion is as simple as putting numbers next to each other and hoping the mud will stick?

I compared the data that was available! Greenburg allegedly cut costs yet admin was higher than in any of smith's years, given CPI is arpubd 2% then the growth on admin costs under Greenburg was higher than smith's most extravagant year even accounting for CPI.
 

taipan

Referee
Messages
22,500
Pre 2012 game was mostly controlled by tv so no wonder we got screwed on tv deals

No lobbying govt as the game has no ambition and a gimp called gallop in charge (remember his infamous "the game is dying" speech during the games centinial celebration year?)

Payment to players and clubs since 2012 is no way close to the % revenue increase of the nrl in that time period

Has the bunker, digital dept, millions on touch alignment, millions on nsw and qland cup and massive admin revenue increase made the sport any stronger or bigger?

Keeping tigs, Knights, Dragons afloat isn't wasted unless it was a missed opportunity to rationalise some areas and bring in new ones but would you really want to lose newcastle and hand GC over to afl? NRL has to deliver 8 games a week and needs 16 clubs to do that.

Afl expansion has earnt more money than it has cost. Pretty good business I'd say!


AS the TV stations controlled the scheduling ,all the more reason for the NRL to negotiate a better deal.Says little for the pre 2012 negotiators.Fill in the space who were the people involved in negotiations.

At least Smith brought in the lobbying argument and ensured the code was at the forefront in that regard, else we'd still be wondering what the hell to do with ANZ and the SFS.Although he went overboard and spent a motza on consultants, who were IMO useless.

The players 'increases were all up on CPI ,and what you forget coaches pay also jumped enormously as did football departments, and because the TV stations controlled the scheduling time slots were crap and crowds and revenue reacted accordingly.If we'd expanded then, the revenue would have had to be spread further and losses would have been greater then.The code spent decent money taking Touch Football under its wing .And the total monies is not cash there is contra involved.Players don;t work on contra.
In most cases clubs were at the salary cap capacity and some in fact went over.

Under 14 the game has grown at grassroots ,plus the women's side.It is in the older age brackets that is where the numbers have dropped.The softer versions of the game League Tag is booming.OK not the tackle version but perhaps future tackle players and future fans.

Whatever the bunker has done or not,It costs a couple of mill a year to run,so that is additional cost as is two refs.The integrity department is not a cheap episode either,thanks to needing one .
We won't know the impact of the digital dept, for a few years, technology is changing rapidly, hence no doubt affecting FTA TV ratings, and perhaps crowds.Does the code such sit back and let the world go by technologically?


After what the code's been though in the last 20 years, and with the experience of the AFL since .rationalisation is not necessarily the panacae of everything that is good.It's easier to move teams when you have little competition in your home area, such as Melbourne.I repeat one more time you have zero idea the impact rationalisation or merging/removal of Sydney clubs (unless they were in financial,dire straits).Yes we get the glib, oh people get to live with it BS.

That comment about expansion automatically earning more money than it costs is flawed,not borne out by the A League,with most clubs operating in the red.And let's not bring in the Sooper Dooper Union expansion.It may well earn more money, but it doesn't guarantee lesser expenditure.

You can cite the AFL(as you always do) and yes they have bigger TV deals(wonder why)and crowds, but they control the scheduling (thanks to incompetent pre 2012 NRL decisions we don't) and crowds with decent stadiums and a far better transport system,and an easier terrain to get around,Sydney half as big again in area.

What you rarely if ever admit,is the huge consistent losses sustained by the Lions,the stagnation of the Suns (despite all the handouts).The enormous funding and draft gifts given to GWS,and still their and the Swans TV ratings in their "home' city are abysmal.The modern stadiums gifted to GWS and Swans ,whilst the rectangular codes in Sydney got shafted.
The only reason the AFL expanded to Sydney and Brisbane was the Sth Melbourne club and the Fitzroy club, were up sh*t street ,without a paddle.It was an act of pure financial desperation not a master stroke expansion plan, that you may believe.
The timing was perfect ,we(err Ribot and Rupert) decided to have a SL war,divide a code that's the way to help your competitors.

And your mob who got the OK to join the premier competition in a very short space of time,decided to go to Super league ,what a great way to assist the code.I'd hardly be forming cheer squad.
The impact in Sydney was a millions times greater than it was in Perth.If the 3 exp[asnion clubs Nth Qld/Perth/Warriors had not decided to go to SL,Rupert would have been screwed.And guess what Perth may well have been in an NRL whatever final series.And you would wake up each morning ,whistling a happy tune.
 
Last edited:

BuffaloRules

Coach
Messages
15,548
And your mob who got the OK to join the premier competition in a very short space of time,decided to go to Super league ,what a great way to assist the code.I'd hardly be forming cheer squad.
The impact in Sydney was a millions times greater than it was in Perth.If the 3 exp[asnion clubs Nth Qld/Perth/Warriors had not decided to go to SL,Rupert would have been screwed.And guess what Perth may well have been in an NRL whatever final series.And you would wake up each morning ,whistling a happy tune.

He never mentions this betrayal, but whinges continually about the Reds having to pay the opposing team travel costs ( which they themselves offered to do as part of their bid document to join the ARL to begin with..So the ARL should have said no right??)

I note the Toronto Wolfpack do the same to play in the English third grade.... Don't hear much whinging from them about that....
 

beave

Coach
Messages
15,677
AS the TV stations controlled the scheduling ,all the more reason for the NRL to negotiate a better deal.Says little for the pre 2012 negotiators.Fill in the space who were the people involved in negotiations.

At least Smith brought in the lobbying argument and ensured the code was at the forefront in that regard, else we'd still be wondering what the hell to do with ANZ and the SFS.Although he went overboard and spent a motza on consultants, who were IMO useless.

The players 'increases were all up on CPI ,and what you forget coaches pay also jumped enormously as did football departments, and because the TV stations controlled the scheduling time slots were crap and crowds and revenue reacted accordingly.If we'd expanded then, the revenue would have had to be spread further and losses would have been greater then.The code spent decent money taking Touch Football under its wing .And the total monies is not cash there is contra involved.Players don;t work on contra.
In most cases clubs were at the salary cap capacity and some in fact went over.

Under 14 the game has grown at grassroots ,plus the women's side.It is in the older age brackets that is where the numbers have dropped.The softer versions of the game League Tag is booming.OK not the tackle version but perhaps future tackle players and future fans.

Whatever the bunker has done or not,It costs a couple of mill a year to run,so that is additional cost as is two refs.The integrity department is not a cheap episode either,thanks to needing one .
We won't know the impact of the digital dept, for a few years, technology is changing rapidly, hence no doubt affecting FTA TV ratings, and perhaps crowds.Does the code such sit back and let the world go by technologically?


After what the code's been though in the last 20 years, and with the experience of the AFL since .rationalisation is not necessarily the panacae of everything that is good.It's easier to move teams when you have little competition in your home area, such as Melbourne.I repeat one more time you have zero idea the impact rationalisation or merging/removal of Sydney clubs (unless they were in financial,dire straits).Yes we get the glib, oh people get to live with it BS.

That comment about expansion automatically earning more money than it costs is flawed,not borne out by the A League,with most clubs operating in the red.And let's not bring in the Sooper Dooper Union expansion.It may well earn more money, but it doesn't guarantee lesser expenditure.

You can cite the AFL(as you always do) and yes they have bigger TV deals(wonder why)and crowds, but they control the scheduling (thanks to incompetent pre 2012 NRL decisions we don't) and crowds with decent stadiums and a far better transport system,and an easier terrain to get around,Sydney half as big again in area.

What you rarely if ever admit,is the huge consistent losses sustained by the Lions,the stagnation of the Suns (despite all the handouts).The enormous funding and draft gifts given to GWS,and still their and the Swans TV ratings in their "home' city are abysmal.The modern stadiums gifted to GWS and Swans ,whilst the rectangular codes in Sydney got shafted.
The only reason the AFL expanded to Sydney and Brisbane was the Sth Melbourne club and the Fitzroy club, were up sh*t street ,without a paddle.It was an act of pure financial desperation not a master stroke expansion plan, that you may believe.
The timing was perfect ,we(err Ribot and Rupert) decided to have a SL war,divide a code that's the way to help your competitors.

And your mob who got the OK to join the premier competition in a very short space of time,decided to go to Super league ,what a great way to assist the code.I'd hardly be forming cheer squad.
The impact in Sydney was a millions times greater than it was in Perth.If the 3 exp[asnion clubs Nth Qld/Perth/Warriors had not decided to go to SL,Rupert would have been screwed.And guess what Perth may well have been in an NRL whatever final series.And you would wake up each morning ,whistling a happy tune.

Rags on Perth joing SL.

Has a Sharks avatar.....
 

siv

First Grade
Messages
6,761
He never mentions this betrayal, but whinges continually about the Reds having to pay the opposing team travel costs ( which they themselves offered to do as part of their bid document to join the ARL to begin with..So the ARL should have said no right??)

I note the Toronto Wolfpack do the same to play in the English third grade.... Don't hear much whinging from them about that....

The difference is that there is a pathway to ESL
 

beave

Coach
Messages
15,677
He never mentions this betrayal, but whinges continually about the Reds having to pay the opposing team travel costs ( which they themselves offered to do as part of their bid document to join the ARL to begin with..So the ARL should have said no right??)

I note the Toronto Wolfpack do the same to play in the English third grade.... Don't hear much whinging from them about that....

I think you’ll find the Wolfpacks main jersey sponsor (Air Transat) pays/deals with all opposition and wolfpack flights. The team itself don’t pay anything from what I’ve read.
 

taipan

Referee
Messages
22,500
Rags on Perth joing SL.

Has a Sharks avatar.....


Did I enjoy the Sharks going to SL ,watching our fans being ripped apart FFS? Bearing in mind the Sharks were SL's last resort to join,as St George would not join.They wanted a Southern franchise, and the sharks were nit their first intent.

The Shark also had been in since 1967,the Reds a matter of months.A hell of a difference.

Like getting invited to a 21st party accepting,then the next day telling the host to p*ss off, you have a better offer.
 

Desert Qlder

First Grade
Messages
9,395
"We didn't really want to join super league...I swear"

191872-ec051354-d360-11e4-a1a0-3de964bfa43a.jpg
 

BuffaloRules

Coach
Messages
15,548
I think you’ll find the Wolfpacks main jersey sponsor (Air Transat) pays/deals with all opposition and wolfpack flights. The team itself don’t pay anything from what I’ve read.

Does the team get any money from the sponsor?
 

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