John Sutton? Nah, f**k him...he's not an 'origin player'

[Poupou Escobar]

If the definition of insanity is trying the same thing over again and expecting different results...

But it's not. The definition of insanity is

such unsoundness of mind or lack of understanding as prevents one from having the mental capacity required by law to enter into a particular relationship, status, or transaction or as removes one from criminal or civil responsibility

which is similar to what you were getting at, I guess.

And though you said Campese at 6 would require a gameplan tailored for him, I think if he was named at 7 they wouldn't have to do anything special.

They might even go alright with Sutton at 6.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

He finished last year on a high, but I don't think he turned up early this season at the same level

But then again, so many other players can be said the same

Yeah - the best players.

It's always been the case. The best players save their best for the end of the season, as well as for Origin games.

That's why you get so many fans whinging about so-and-so being picked despite his poor form (since the previous season's finals when he carved up, of course), but then so-and-so goes on to have a blinder in Origin.

Sutton is an absolute gun. He could be great in Origin. He also might not, but we'll never know if we don't get to see it.

One problem is the selectors have that country/suburban bogan bias against certain players. They want to see that extroverted bogan body language and hear that cliche bogan talk. The Blues have that whole 1990s bogan cultural legacy, which is why the Knights have contributed 3 straight captains. The selectors struggle to understand players like Sutton and Hayne who are from a more urban background.

 

[Boganater]

One problem is the selectors have that country/suburban bogan bias against certain players. They want to see that extroverted bogan body language and hear that cliche bogan talk. The Blues have that whole 1990s bogan cultural legacy, which is why the Knights have contributed 3 straight captains. The selectors struggle to understand players like Sutton and Hayne who are from a more urban background.

Mate I agree that 3 Newcastle Captains is about 1 too many but Hayne grew up in Campbelltown didn't he? Hardly a place of culture and fine arts.

 

[Parraren]

Barrett will get the nod in game 2 anyway and I don't have a problem with that given he's always performed at Origin level for NSW. I think players should be rewarded for that.

Looking down the track I see Campese as the more complete 5/8 over Sutton & Carney who will probably fight it out for the spot in 2011 and beyond assuming Barrett hangs up the boots.

 

[league]

Cooper didn't deserve it, and Creagh should be dropped. Morris and Weyman no arguments.

Cooper was in great form leading into Origin 1, he had Idris' measure in the round just before selection which justified his selection too.

Creagh should be dropped? and what? call in a Tigers player? :roll:

other than that brain explosion kick on 4th tackle Creagh did well enough and should be a certain starter for Origin 2.

I'll grant you one thing though, Farah should be the dummy half in place of that talentless hack Ennis.

 

[Jason Maher]

After watching the Souths-Penrith replay this arvo, I'm more convinced than ever that Sutton should be no. 6 for game 2 (I thought he should have been no. 6 for game 1, but that's another story). And after watching the c**ks-Tits game tonight, Pearce is a must. Clearly the best no. 7 NSW have at the moment (and he was in good form before getting injured too).

 

[Shanky]

imagine if the selectors picked pearce at half and sutton/campese at five eighth. these boards would go dead cause nobody would have anything to complain about.

of course, i dont think thats likely...

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Mate I agree that 3 Newcastle Captains is about 1 too many but Hayne grew up in Campbelltown didn't he? Hardly a place of culture and fine arts.

Got nothing to do with culture and fine arts and everything to do with the kinds of people who live there. Campbelltown and Maroubra (where Sutton comes from) are very different from Newcastle or the northern beaches.

 

[oldmancraigy]

The selectors CANNOT pick Sutton at 6 and Pearce at 7.

Why not?

Because that would be a new 6/7 combination - and we all know that they've stuck to the same guys in those positions over the last 2-3 Origin series.

I mean just because they had a different 6/7 combination in 8 of the last 10 Origin games (and lost each series on the back of inept 6/7 play) CLEARLY means they should stick to what they've got.

Oh wait - I've got a better idea: put Gidley in the halves someplace? Might as well pick him out of position to match Idris being on the wing.

 

[oldmancraigy]

:? They've mostly picked front rowers to play in the front row. I don't think they've ever opted to leave out any awesome front rowers. Except maybe Kite circa 2008 but given his form in the Sky Blue one could make the argument.


It wasn't as if they were being thrown into unfamiliar positions your players. I suppose us Qlders should be upset that Boyd isn't at fullback, Tonga isn't on the left, Cronk isn't at half and Taylor wasn't in the backrow?


Why would you single out Knights players? What about Storm players? Sea Eagles? Bulldogs? Panthers? Eels? etc.

aqree on the Campese thing.

However: in the past 7 Origin matches, the NSW selectors have picked 4 props on just one occastion - opting for 3 props in most games, and selecting TLL as a 'prop' in 2 of those games (he has toiled manfully in the position, but more naturally plays 2nd row for the Raiders).

As for unfamiliar positions:
Hayne has played wing twice since 2007 (ie - 3 years ago) and that was on the left wing. Right wing is a position he's never found himself (and only actually played winger twice in 3 years).
Lyon's story at 5/8 is slightly more favourable - but he is so much better at right centre - a position that NSW selected a left center instead (who, funnily enough has a fair amount of experience on the right wing). Luckily Idris ended up playing right wing by the end of the game...
And Gidley is not a fullback - surely his years of fumbling at that position have shown that?
Watmough at lock - yes, it's a backrow position, but did anyone think NSW needed a 'worker/ cover defender' at that position?

Yeah - sure, it's not all about positional selection (that's a small part of it) it was more about team balance. The ineptitude of the selectors to pick some guys who could lay on a try was disappointing.

And I don't think he was singling out Knights players - just the useless ones (ie - the ones who have proven at Origin level that they really have nothing to offer when it comes to winning games)

 

[Galeforce]

Staggering ,
when i read comments

Sutton not ready
HAs not proven himself

He is at his prime and more proven than some of the young guns who are given a chance . You cannot prove yourself as an Origin player unless you get the chance to.
what a joke , anyway , as a souths fan , i hope he is not selected , gives Souths a greater chance to win those games where he would be out if on Origin duty. I believe Souths will make top 4 and make grandfinal.
that is more important to me then beating Qld with Dave Taylor!

They can then be both picked for Australia after grandfinal.

 

[Big Pete]

Hayne has played wing twice since 2007 (ie - 3 years ago) and that was on the left wing. Right wing is a position he's never found himself (and only actually played winger twice in 3 years).

Yes yes but it's not as if he's foreign to the position. The boy did score 17 tries from 16 games there and has played there in the past. The idea that he was selected in some foreign position just to suit the selectors isn't true.

Lyon's story at 5/8 is slightly more favourable - but he is so much better at right centre

Aye. But again, he's another player who's made an impact playing in that five eigth position.

And Gidley is not a fullback - surely his years of fumbling at that position have shown that?

By 'years' do you mean 2009? In 2007-2008 he was right up there as one of the best fullbacks in the game. That is definitely his ideal position, whether he should be selected or not though is another thing altogether.

Watmough at lock - yes, it's a backrow position, but did anyone think NSW needed a 'worker/ cover defender' at that position?

It's just a number. The amount of 13's that I've seen play either in the front row or at second row in club football this year is quite astounding.

Yeah - sure, it's not all about positional selection (that's a small part of it) it was more about team balance. The ineptitude of the selectors to pick some guys who could lay on a try was disappointing.

Aye. The sooner Gidley is let go at fullback the easier it'll be for NSW to score points.

And I don't think he was singling out Knights players - just the useless ones

So....2 of them? Gidley and McManus?

Because it was quite the opposite when Johns, Buderus and Simpson were playing.

 

[perverse]

imagine if the selectors picked pearce at half and sutton/campese at five eighth. these boards would go dead cause nobody would have anything to complain about.

of course, i dont think thats likely...

lol, rubbish. we would all celebrate and pat each other on the back when the selections were announced... and then go back to rubbishing and dropping them once they lost to QLD.

seen it too many times now.

 

[oldmancraigy]

Yes yes but it's not as if he's foreign to the position. The boy did score 17 tries from 16 games there and has played there in the past. The idea that he was selected in some foreign position just to suit the selectors isn't true.


By 'years' do you mean 2009? In 2007-2008 he was right up there as one of the best fullbacks in the game. That is definitely his ideal position, whether he should be selected or not though is another thing altogether.


Aye. The sooner Gidley is let go at fullback the easier it'll be for NSW to score points.

meh - I was just having a thinly veiled dig at Gidley.....

However, on the Hayne position - he scored mucho tries from the LEFT wing position. That is where he has played - never been a right winger, and has only played 2 wing games in 3 years. A couple of positional errors is unsurprising IMO. I'll agree it's a minor point - but when you consider the selectors wanted to pick him on the wing and not at FB because 'he was our best last year on the wing' the reasoning to put him on a foreign side of the field is even more mysterious...

 

[Big Pete]

No he played right in 2006.

I remember it well, ahh, especially a game where he ruined Joey Johns' celebration as he broke the point scoring record.

 

[Raider_69]

FTR i singled out knights players because the NSW origin team has a long history of selecting anyone who looks 1/2 decent in a knights jersey

 

[perverse]

FTR i singled out knights players because the NSW origin team has a long history of selecting anyone who looks 1/2 decent in a knights jersey

and a long history of it paying dividends, too.

 

[Big Pete]

It just came across as a lazy generalisation.

A lot of clubs attract rep. interest over others. Just look at St. George or Manly.

 

[Boganater]

and a long history of it paying dividends, too.

It's true there have been some truly great Knights players who have played Origin and proven to be match winners.
Chief, Joey, M Gidley, Tahu, Mad Dog, Simpson, Buderus, Kennedy the list goes on.These guys have one thing in common: they have proven themselves at this level.
I suppose that's why everyone has a shot at the Knights when they see Gidley getting picked despite being mediocre and can't help but think it's the connection with past greats (and one in particular in the ear of the coach) that sees him given a free ride. That sort of sh*t shouldn't go on.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

anyway , as a souths fan , i hope he is not selected , gives Souths a greater chance to win those games where he would be out if on Origin duty.

A lot of people say stuff like this, but coaches will tell you they love having rep players at their clubs, even if it means losing them at Origin and Test time.

When a player's picked for Origin he grows in confidence, and his teammates' confidence in him grows too. It's a massive plus for the club, especially at the business end of the season.

Confidence (and lack thereof) is that one intangible that is most responsible for peaks and dips in form.