Johns vs Thurston

[madunit]

fittler is another example of a great who's versatility diminishes his standing overall, the greatest centre/5-8th/lock of ALL TIME who had to accomodate playing with daley and clyde

Clyde?

He played his last Origin game and last test in 1994. Fittler played for 10 years after that.

Johnny Raper, Bob Fulton and Frank Burge all have very strong (if not stronger) claims to being the best centre/five-eighth/lock utility player ever.

 

[Craig Johnston]

JT would get killed playing hooker at club level, never mind SOO or test level

Joey > JT

johns could have comfortably played all positions from 1-13. he smashed webcke in the frontline numerous times.

thurston can cover halves and wing.

 

[DiegoNT]

The fact Joey had to play at Hooker works against him. If he was any good surely he would've been picked at halfback.

The thing people forget about Joey playing hooker was that he only done it in defence. He packed into the scrums and defended at hooker, but when it came to attack he'd go to first receiver and players like Toovey would go into dummy - half

 

[madunit]

Freddie was an all time great, my favourite player of all time despite my hatred for the roosters being a rabbitohs supporter. It's weird how players like him, Daley, langer and lockyer get overlooked in the hype surrounding Thurston at the moment. Even in his playing time Thurston has been ovee shadowed at times by Smith, slater and inglis

Like Wally Lewis was over shadowed by Meninga, Sterling, Jack?

 

[JJ]

Clyde?

He played his last Origin game and last test in 1994. Fittler played for 10 years after that.

Johnny Raper, Bob Fulton and Frank Burge all have very strong (if not stronger) claims to being the best centre/five-eighth/lock utility player ever.

Is there such a thing though? Most of those guys, like Fittler, Kenny and Daley - were specialists in one position but had such ability they could fill in elsewhere - all could have played hooker at a pinch too. Gene Miles was another - great centre, great backrower, could have filled in as 5/8 I think.

Hell, Shaun Timmins played 5/8 at SOO...

 

[madunit]

johns could have comfortably played all positions from 1-13. he smashed webcke in the frontline numerous times.

thurston can cover halves and wing.

so your argument is that Johns was better because he was more versatile?

What a stupid argument.

If that's the case, why aren't Alan Wilson and Luke Lewis Immortals?

 

[JJ]

Like Wally Lewis was over shadowed by Meninga, Sterling, Jack?

Wally was seldom overshadowed - odd occasions by Kenny, Sterling and Mortimer - but Meninga and Jack?? You jest?

 

[Incorrect]

hmmm, well daley had the same versatility, as did kenny... actually, brett kenny is one who i think is criminally underrated - just a freak whether at 5/8 or centre, and late in his career played lock as i recall... With the severe knee injury he lost that explosive pace, and then it became clear (it was already imo) that he was a super all round player.

i'd have him at 5/8 over everyone, except the king

100%

 

[madunit]

Is there such a thing though? Most of those guys, like Fittler, Kenny and Daley - were specialists in one position but had such ability they could fill in elsewhere - all could have played hooker at a pinch too. Gene Miles was another - great centre, great backrower, could have filled in as 5/8 I think.

Hell, Shaun Timmins played 5/8 at SOO...

that's kind of my point.

I don't think a players versatility should be a reason why they are considered the greatest in one position.

Apples should be compared with Apples, not gumboots with pictures of apples on them

 

[madunit]

Wally was seldom overshadowed - odd occasions by Kenny, Sterling and Mortimer - but Meninga and Jack?? You jest?

Guess who was the Best Player in the world in 1986?
Guess who was the Best Player in the world in 1989?

It wasn't Lewis

 

[JJ]

that's kind of my point.

I don't think a players versatility should be a reason why they are considered the greatest in one position.

Apples should be compared with Apples, not gumboots with pictures of apples on them

Yeah, thought it was - and you're right... all the guys mentioned had enough size/physicality to play multiple positions - Johns had that too

 

[DiegoNT]

Guess who was the Best Player in the world in 1986?
Guess who was the Best Player in the world in 1989?

It wasn't Lewis

Shaum Johnson is currently the 'best player in the world'

 

[Rod]

so your argument is that Johns was better because he was more versatile?

Not automatically better but by the same token it shouldn't automatically count against you either.

 

[JJ]

Guess who was the Best Player in the world in 1986?
Guess who was the Best Player in the world in 1989?

It wasn't Lewis

For sure - which is why I still wonder why the 85 and one of the 87 winners don't feature more in these discussions - geniused NSW selectors who didn't (from memory) play them together enough did NSW a disservice

I am still not sure anyone I've seen is better than Kenny, Sterling or Lewis.

 

[madunit]

Shaum Johnson is currently the 'best player in the world'

that didn't answer any of the questions I asked.

Thanks for playing though.

 

[DiegoNT]

that didn't answer any of the questions I asked.

Thanks for playing though.

It shows that the official 'best player in the world' isn't always really the 'best player in the world'

 

[Canard]

Freddie was an all time great, my favourite player of all time despite my hatred for the roosters being a rabbitohs supporter. It's weird how players like him, Daley, langer and lockyer get overlooked in the hype surrounding Thurston at the moment. Even in his playing time Thurston has been ovee shadowed at times by Smith, slater and inglis

It's weird that you think that, it's even weirder that you hate a player for that warped view that you have.

Essentially you are disliking someone's because of some geniused Fox Sports commentators view.

 

[carcharias]

Is there a stat for who blamed the refs the most?

 

[JJ]

Is there a stat for who blamed the refs the most?

The Bob Fulton quotient?

 

[DiegoNT]

It's weird that you think that, it's even weirder that you hate a player for that warped view that you have.

Essentially you are disliking someone's because of some geniused Fox Sports commentators view.

I dislike Thurston because of the way he approaches refs during games and the whole conspiracy thing after the sharks finals match. That lost him a lot of the respect i had for him (I was a fan until then). My dislike for him doesn't come into it when I judge him as a player, many players are disliked by many, Lewis, Johns and cam smith spring to mind, but there's no doubt they are all great players. I still think Thurston is one of the best players today and one of the greatest halfbacks of all time. I wouldn't of started a johns vs Thurston thread if I didn't think it was a legitimate question. When this debate comes up people always bring in that Thurston hasn't had a good team behind him, but arguably Joey's knights team was very similar, they try argue joey's been played out of position, so has Thurston, and you can't bring off field dramas into it because they've both had them. The only way to judge them is by playing ability.
I don't let commentators influence my decision, if I believed them saying Thurston was the GOAT then I'd be a simpleton who just agrees with anything, if I disagree with the commentators I'm butthurt.
My opinion on Thurston vs Johns comes purely from having seen both in their prime, and in my opinion johns was slightly better