Johns vs Thurston

[DiegoNT]

Did you not miss out on Dylan Walker? And Alex Johnston became a Test player this year! So they had 7. And Tate didn't play after the Origin series at all.

Locky played with 5 test players just in the Broncos Backline alone!

And I think you are doing a massive disservice to claim that Rudder, Parsons and Marquet were not decent first grade players.

I said at the time they won the grand final. Players usually get picked from the grand final winning side ( I'm sure if cowboys were to win the grand final players like Morgan or Cooper would come into test calculation). Marquet , Parsons and rudder were first graders but nothing special, they are to counter your argument that you need great players to win a grand final. You continuely argue that Thurston has been surrounded by crap players, but in the last few years he's been surrounded by players like scott, tamou, taumololo, tate, bowen, the Sims brothers, Morgan, Cooper, winterstein and even serviceable first graders like Bolton, linnett, Ray thompson etc yet he hasn't had a top 4 finish or a preliminary final for a long time

 

[DiegoNT]

Locky played with 5 test players just in the Broncos Backline alone!

When I brought up Joey's MVP at the 95 world cup and you said that was an easy task because it was a weakened team

How do you explain Lockyer being undoubtly broncos best player for about 12 years in a side containing so many good players? That's an extremely hard task?

 

[Chicken_Hunter]

Did you not miss out on Dylan Walker? And Alex Johnston became a Test player this year! So they had 7. And Tate didn't play after the Origin series at all.

Locky played with 5 test players just in the Broncos Backline alone!

And I think you are doing a massive disservice to claim that Rudder, Parsons and Marquet were not decent first grade players.

Parsons was good, but marquet is one of the worst forwards I have ever seen. Sean rudder was basically a terrible forward playing 5/8 with zero play making ability.

 

[Canard]

I said at the time they won the grand final. Players usually get picked from the grand final winning side ( I'm sure if cowboys were to win the grand final players like Morgan or Cooper would come into test calculation). Marquet , Parsons and rudder were first graders but nothing special, they are to counter your argument that you need great players to win a grand final. You continuely argue that Thurston has been surrounded by crap players, but in the last few years he's been surrounded by players like scott, tamou, taumololo, tate, bowen, the Sims brothers, Morgan, Cooper, winterstein and even serviceable first graders like Bolton, linnett, Ray thompson etc yet he hasn't had a top 4 finish or a preliminary final for a long time

My argument is that you are deliberately downplaying the quality of both Johns and Lockyer's teamates whilst pumping up JT's to suit your arguement. I mean the Sims brothers? Ray Thompson??

Parsons was good, but marquet is one of the worst forwards I have ever seen. Sean rudder was basically a terrible forward playing 5/8 with zero play making ability.

Marquet played 257 games of first grade footy.

To say he was one of the worst Forwards ever is just complete bullshit.

 

[DiegoNT]

My argument is that you are deliberately downplaying the quality of both Johns and Lockyer's teamates whilst pumping up JT's to suit your arguement. I mean the Sims brothers? Ray Thompson??

And your not doing the same with Thurston? Both Johns and Thurston have had great team mates, both have had their fair share of good players and both have played with some really average players. Comparing team mates just does not work. You can only compare both players on their ability ( both are fantastic attackers, johns was also a great defender) ), and what they've achieved ( both have had success in origin and test football, johns has had success in leading his team to premierships and top 4 finishes). To say Thurston is a better player because he had to play with guys like Michael bani and grant rovelli is really reaching for excuses and getting of topic

 

[Chicken_Hunter]

My argument is that you are deliberately downplaying the quality of both Johns and Lockyer's teamates whilst pumping up JT's to suit your arguement. I mean the Sims brothers? Ray Thompson??



Marquet played 257 games of first grade footy.

To say he was one of the worst Forwards ever is just complete bullshit.

You obviously never saw him play for the knkghts. He was horrible. Just because he played that many games does not mean he was good. Look at kaufusi, played for australia, he was also one of the worst forwards the Knights have had.

 

[mozza91]

Pretty sure Marquet was very solid from the bench that year nothing spectacular but added abit of impact. And the games that I've seen from his first stint with us were pretty good as well.

 

[betcats]

The whole argument is a bit redundant now, ,at the level both Joey and JT reached there is no definitive answer as to who is the better footy player, there are just too many variables. To me it seems clear but I can see why some would disagree, at the end of the day they are both brilliant and both achieved a lot.

 

[Canard]

To say Thurston is a better player because he had to play with guys like Michael bani and grant rovelli is really reaching for excuses and getting of topic

In my response to your mate Bunniesman claim that JT only played with stars, therefore Lockyer was better I pointed out the logical fallacy of that line of arguement.

You choose to ignore that bit and starting naming guys like Ray Thompson as an example of good players? But completely stayed silent on the Broncos lineups.

Pretty sure Marquet was very solid from the bench that year nothing spectacular but added abit of impact. And the games that I've seen from his first stint with us were pretty good as well.

Marquet was very decent early on, he used to real off 45+ tackle counts in an era when that was largely unheard off.

Listen Im not saying he was a star or anything but to claim that he was one of the worst forwards ever is just stupidity.

PS Kaufusi was shit, but even he wasn't one of the worst forwards EVEr!!

 

[DiegoNT]

You choose to ignore that bit and starting naming guys like Ray Thompson as an example of good players? But completely stayed silent on the Broncos lineups.

I never said ray thompson was a good player, I said he was a serviceable first grader. Your whole argument relies on saying Thurston has only played with crap players and it's far from the truth.
He hasn't had the star packed teams that lockyer has, but he hasn't had completely crap teams like you have tried to make out. If Thurston was playing in the souths teams of the early 2000s or the parra teams of 12-13 your argument would be understandable, but he has actually had a decent team around him for some time (most commentators rate them a top 4 chance every year because of their roster, yet they continuely disappoint)

 

[Craig Johnston]

The whole argument is a bit redundant now, ,at the level both Joey and JT reached there is no definitive answer as to who is the better footy player, there are just too many variables. To me it seems clear but I can see why some would disagree, at the end of the day they are both brilliant and both achieved a lot.

sorry mate this ain't arsesplinters.com

 

[Canard]

I never said ray thompson was a good player, I said he was a serviceable first grader. Your whole argument relies on saying Thurston has only played with crap players and it's far from the truth.
He hasn't had the star packed teams that lockyer has, but he hasn't had completely crap teams like you have tried to make out. If Thurston was playing in the souths teams of the early 2000s or the parra teams of 12-13 your argument would be understandable, but he has actually had a decent team around him for some time (most commentators rate them a top 4 chance every year because of their roster, yet they continuely disappoint)

Your whole arguement started with saying Johns played with duds, then you insinuated in your response to my post that Locky did also. I then called you out on that, and your response is to claim that was MY arguement.

If you think that the Cowboys have had a gun side for every season since 2005, then you don't watch much footy.

 

[DiegoNT]

Your whole arguement started with saying Johns played with duds, then you insinuated in your response to my post that Locky did also. I then called you out on that, and your response is to claim that was MY arguement.

If you think that the Cowboys have had a gun side for every season since 2005, then you don't watch much footy.

Your the one who started the whole argument on the team mates. When people started saying that johns has it over Thurston because he lead 2 teams to a premiership it was the thurston supporters who tried to bring up the argument that Thurston has never had any good team mates. All I'm trying to say is both Johns and Thurston have had a similar quality of team mates over the years and that a lack of quality around Thurston isn't really a valid point. And no cowboys I don't expect cowboys to have a gun side every year since 2005, I don't think any side will in that time. But with the calibre of players cowboys have had ( especially considering that they have Thurston, undeniably a superstar and one of the players of his generation) you'd expect them to have more than a single grand final appearance (which was 10 years ago!). You'd expect them to at least have a couple of top 4 finishes and preliminary finals since then

 

[Canard]

Your the one who started the whole argument on the team mates. When people started saying that johns has it over Thurston because he lead 2 teams to a premiership it was the thurston supporters who tried to bring up the argument that Thurston has never had any good team mates. All I'm trying to say is both Johns and Thurston have had a similar quality of team mates over the years and that a lack of quality around Thurston isn't really a valid point. And no cowboys I don't expect cowboys to have a gun side every year since 2005, I don't think any side will in that time. But with the calibre of players cowboys have had ( especially considering that they have Thurston, undeniably a superstar and one of the players of his generation) you'd expect them to have more than a single grand final appearance (which was 10 years ago!). You'd expect them to at least have a couple of top 4 finishes and preliminary finals since then

Fair enough.

PS Living in Victoria now, this is literally the only place that I get to discuss League.

Appreciate the "contest" to be honest!

 

[Charlie124]

Holy shit, is this thread still going?

 

[God-King Dean]

Any discussion involving JT will inspire competitiveness.

 

[Craig Johnston]

Any discussion involving JT will inspire competitiveness.

or maybe just a stupid laugh

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/uQY5Kha716Q/hqdefault.jpg

 

[DiegoNT]

Any discussion involving JT will inspire competitiveness.

:lol::lol:

 

[Canard]

Holy shit, is this thread still going?

It hit the wall a while back, then somebody double dropped.

 

[typicalfan]

I just don't know how someone can say they can rate Thurston and not Johns given most of what makes Thurston great I'd what made Johns great. Johns also had the ability to make his teammates look better like C Smith does. Thurston has it a bit but sometimes it looks like he simply has to do anything.

Thurston has even had the odd dummy spit that Johns was famous for....Johns' death stare at Lee Jackson was like if looks could kill.

Thurston is the halfback most Johns like since Johns himself defense aside, all others aren't worthy of discussion.