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Johns vs Thurston

Who is better Thurston or Johns?

  • Thurston

    Votes: 47 25.7%

  • Joey

    Votes: 136 74.3%
  • Total voters
    183
Canard

Canard

Immortal
Messages
35,971
typicalfan said:
I just don't know how someone can say they can rate Thurston and not Johns given most of what makes Thurston great I'd what made Johns great. Johns also had the ability to make his teammates look better like C Smith does. Thurston has it a bit but sometimes it looks like he simply has to do anything.

Thurston has even had the odd dummy spit that Johns was famous for....Johns' death stare at Lee Jackson was like if looks could kill.

Thurston is the halfback most Johns like since Johns himself defense aside, all others aren't worthy of discussion.
Click to expand...

Who the f**k wouldn't rate Johns??? The mentally ill???
 
Big Pete

Big Pete

Referee
Messages
29,132
I remember having this discussion on here in 2010.

It was coming off of Origin I 2010. JT had just produced one of the strongest Origin performances of any player and the likes of Antilag were tossing up the comparison. I'm not sure if a conclusion was ever reached but personally I was of the opinion that JT needed to improve his club record in order to really challenge Johns.

In that time since the Cowboys have finished...

15th (saved by the Storm)
7th
5th
7th
5th

2015 seems like a real make it or break it year for JT but I don't think it will erase all the disappointment of the past 7 seasons.

The only argument is rep level where I believe JT has a stronger record.

International Wins
JT 29 - Joey 20

Origin
JT 19 - Joey 13

Series Wins
JT 8 - Joey 5

Johns wasn't a slouch in the representative arena, I don't think anyone would say such a thing but he does pale in comparison to players like JT.

Similarly, JT can't match Joey at club and will really have to go out with a bang in order to compete.
 
THE CHAMP

THE CHAMP

First Grade
Messages
8,359
Big Pete said:
I remember having this discussion on here in 2010.

It was coming off of Origin I 2010. JT had just produced one of the strongest Origin performances of any player and the likes of Antilag were tossing up the comparison. I'm not sure if a conclusion was ever reached but personally I was of the opinion that JT needed to improve his club record in order to really challenge Johns.

In that time since the Cowboys have finished...

15th (saved by the Storm)
7th
5th
7th
5th

2015 seems like a real make it or break it year for JT but I don't think it will erase all the disappointment of the past 7 seasons.

The only argument is rep level where I believe JT has a stronger record.

International Wins
JT 29 - Joey 20

Origin
JT 19 - Joey 13

Series Wins
JT 8 - Joey 5

Johns wasn't a slouch in the representative arena, I don't think anyone would say such a thing but he does pale in comparison to players like JT.

Similarly, JT can't match Joey at club and will really have to go out with a bang in order to compete.
Click to expand...

pete if you want to back up your opinions with facts like that I don't think lu is for you.
 
Tommy Smith

Tommy Smith

Referee
Messages
21,344
Big Pete said:
I remember having this discussion on here in 2010.

It was coming off of Origin I 2010. JT had just produced one of the strongest Origin performances of any player and the likes of Antilag were tossing up the comparison. I'm not sure if a conclusion was ever reached but personally I was of the opinion that JT needed to improve his club record in order to really challenge Johns.

In that time since the Cowboys have finished...

15th (saved by the Storm)
7th
5th
7th
5th

2015 seems like a real make it or break it year for JT but I don't think it will erase all the disappointment of the past 7 seasons.

The only argument is rep level where I believe JT has a stronger record.

International Wins
JT 29 - Joey 20

Origin
JT 19 - Joey 13

Series Wins
JT 8 - Joey 5

Johns wasn't a slouch in the representative arena, I don't think anyone would say such a thing but he does pale in comparison to players like JT.

Similarly, JT can't match Joey at club and will really have to go out with a bang in order to compete.
Click to expand...
Some of those stats can be very misleading. JT has played 33 Tests so far. Joey played 24. So of course Thurston will have more wins. I believe win % is a greater guide.

I can't find the stats but I'm pretty sure Joey has a better win % at club level, by a comfortable margin. Hence all the top 4 finishes on the ladder fo the Knights compared to a paltry and quite staggering one for JT at the Cowboys.
 
Big Pete

Big Pete

Referee
Messages
29,132
Tommy Smith said:
Some of those stats can be very misleading. JT has played 33 Tests so far. Joey played 24. So of course Thurston will have more wins. I believe win % is a greater guide.

I can't find the stats but I'm pretty sure Joey has a better win % at club level, by a comfortable margin. Hence all the top 4 finishes on the ladder fo the Knights compared to a paltry and quite staggering one for JT at the Cowboys.
Click to expand...

Win Percentage
Johnathan Thurston 90.6%
Andrew Johns 86.9%

Keep in mind, the drawn game from the 2009 Four Nations counts against JT's record, where as all of the results that count against Johns' record were losses.

And yeah to illustrate the club win percentage.

Johnathan Thurston: 57.3%*
Andrew Johns: 65.6%

Which is why I can't really see an argument, especially since Joey lead his club to two premierships where as JT participated in one.

Having watched that Grand Final again, I believe his performance was underrated some considering it at least got Anasta off the field. He was awful that night and it was one of the least deserving performances I've seen in some time.

Getting back to the Test point, while it is unfortunate on Johns' part, I believe the fact that JT was able to play more games and achieve more wins while maintaining a better win percentage makes him the better player in that arena.

The only argument in Johns' favour is that he won more World Cups than JT, 2-1. Everything else is in JT's favour.
 
perverse

perverse

Referee
Messages
26,753
There's no doubt JT edges Johns in the rep arena. Had JT had his career plagued by injury as much as Johns did, the figures might be a bit closer. The problem is that Johns blows JT out of the water in the domestic comp... and to be honest, that's where the bulk of ones football career is played... with only 4-5 games a year being rep games.
 
DiegoNT

DiegoNT

First Grade
Messages
9,378
perverse said:
There's no doubt JT edges Johns in the rep arena. Had JT had his career plagued by injury as much as Johns did, the figures might be a bit closer. The problem is that Johns blows JT out of the water in the domestic comp... and to be honest, that's where the bulk of ones football career is played... with only 4-5 games a year being rep games.
Click to expand...

I think their is doubt on who had a better rep career. Thurstons played more games but they've both had similar success. Johns has had 5 origin wins, 2 draws and 2 losses, Thurston has 8 wins, 2 losses. Both have 4 origin man of the match awards. Johns has won 2 world cups and never lost an international series, thurston has won 1 world cup, lost one and has lost a 4 nations as well. Their rep careers are pretty close
 
Canard

Canard

Immortal
Messages
35,971
One thing this thread shows is that nobody rates coaching or any off field support at all.

Basically both players careers are only being judged on the quality of their teammates, the raw statistics of games won and rep games played in.

In brief, people are saying that Shane Perry coached by Paul Langmack would be the same as when coached by Wayne Bennett.
 
SDM

SDM

First Grade
Messages
7,600
That is true, and Johns dragged this muppet to a premiership

Michael-Hagan-6310011.jpg
 
Big Pete

Big Pete

Referee
Messages
29,132
DiegoNT said:
I think their is doubt on who had a better rep career. Thurstons played more games but they've both had similar success. Johns has had 5 origin wins, 2 draws and 2 losses, Thurston has 8 wins, 2 losses. Both have 4 origin man of the match awards. Johns has won 2 world cups and never lost an international series, thurston has won 1 world cup, lost one and has lost a 4 nations as well. Their rep careers are pretty close
Click to expand...

JT has never lost a Tri or Four Nations series.

Also never participated in an Ashes series.

2 draws is deceiving. May look good in a thread like this, but there was only one state celebrating that night, not two.
 
T

The Elephant In The room

Bench
Messages
4,980
Big Pete said:
JT has never lost a Tri or Four Nations series.

Also never participated in an Ashes series.

2 draws is deceiving. May look good in a thread like this, but there was only one state celebrating that night, not two.
Click to expand...

Both heads were cheering over a draw eh? Welcome to the Ricky Stuart school of setting the bar low.
 
Big Pete

Big Pete

Referee
Messages
29,132
Retaining the shield was the main prerogative.

Pretending otherwise is simply revisionist history.
 
DiegoNT

DiegoNT

First Grade
Messages
9,378
Big Pete said:
Not when you're the reigning champions.
Click to expand...

But the 2002 maroons never beat the blues. Queensland had players on debut, so did nsw. Nsw didn't have johns the year before, etc so it was a completely new series. Even though they retained the shield, for Queensland to celebrate like a win was weird
 
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