Johns vs Thurston

[T-Boon]

Joey is the better in all areas of the game for mine, but I think he had the advantage of playing through a far more pleasant looking era of the game.
To me the game is just straight ugly now with all the structure etc. Even a backline move looks ugly. In Joeys day those Knights backline moves looked pure (get it to the centres with room to move). No forwards bullying backs, few decoy runners.
Thurston spent a good portion of his career playing on just one side of the ruck. WTF?

 

[THE CHAMP]

Both brett kimmorley and geoff toovey were preferred over johns.

Says it all really.

John had a couple of good games that's it.

He won a couple of spoons too.

 

[Perth Red]

Johns couldn't even make the kangaroo number 7 his own. No contest, Thurston every day.

 

[billygilmore]

I think Thurston is more consistent.

I agree with this, both playing at there absolute best i would go johns but thurston to me seems to have maintaned a more consistant high level of performance. In saying that though johns did have a patch of what seemed like a few years where he was consistanly getting injured which maybe why he seemed not as consistant having to come back from injuries all the time.

 

[Danish]

Both brett kimmorley and geoff toovey were preferred over johns.

Says it all really.

John had a couple of good games that's it.

He won a couple of spoons too.

That is a symptom of NSW selectors' mental deficiencies.

Do you honestly think Thurston could wrestle the 7 jersey away from Mitchell Pearce?

 

[DiegoNT]

Both brett kimmorley and geoff toovey were preferred over johns.

Says it all really.

John had a couple of good games that's it.

He won a couple of spoons too.

Geoff toovey was never preffered over johns. Johns wore number 9 and defended at hooker and packed into the scrums, but played first reciever in attack. He was that good defensively that they could give him a hookers role in defence on top of his halfback duties in attack. Toovey was pretty much just a dummy half. Kimmorley in 7 during 2000 looks silly in hindsight, but he was flavour of the month at the time. You can do the same for Thurston. He was on the bench behind anasta and sherwin for the 2004 gf and gets shifted out of his preferred 7 jumper by cronk for rep games.
Johns 'won the spoon' during 2005, towards the back end of the year when he had an injury effected year, but every year he was on the field the Knights were finalist. Between 2008-2010 Cowboys finished 15-12-15, at the peak of Thurstons powers. In 2008 they were equal last but avoided the spoon on for and against and in 2010 they were the worst team but avoided the spoon because of the storm salary cap scandal.
Both players have lost the same amount of origin series (2), but johns never lost a series/tournament in his time in the Australian jumper.
You can use whatever stat you want to lean the argument in your favour. Both are great players who you'd want in your side in big pressure moments. During the last 5-8 years of his career johns was undisputedly the best player in the comp. During Thurstons times that argument was made for lockyer early on, smith between 09-12, inglis between 12-14 and it's only i the last 2 years that Thurston has been placed in that pedestal above all the others.
The thing that makes me prefer johns, apart from defence, was that he was an innovator. Every few weeks he'd introduce a new way to kick, a new type of pass, a new play etc and it lead to every other half to study the tape and try copy him.
When Thurston won his churchill medal it was behind scott tamou and taumololo up front with morgan by his side, when johns won his churchill medal it was behind Parsons, Perry and Peden with Rudder by his side

 

[Rod]

As was mentioned earlier Johns CCM was probably a little bit fortunate, he had a very good game but Ben Kennedy had a stormer and our other fowards were also very good, we didn't make an error until the 31st minute or something.

Thurston's CCM last year was just farcical. At least 5 players on the field better than him.

 

[Didgi]

How many premiership winning field goals has Johns kicked?

Close thread

 

[DiegoNT]

How many premiership winning field goals has Johns kicked?

Close thread

How many premiership winning tries has Thurston set-up
Thread re-opened

 

[Rod]

He won a couple of spoons too.

He won one spoon.

But I'm glad you brought up 2005, because I think that's actually the year Johns sealed his legacy for good. Had one club game back from a broken jaw before he tore Queensland to shreds.

Then almost won the Dally M (lost by 1 point to Thurston ironically) despite missing about 8 games through that jaw and his team getting the spoon. An absolute freakish run of form that is probably only topped by Hayne in 09.

 

[typicalfan]

Johns carved up and out performed Kimmorley in 2000 anyway off the bench. I remember one try where he had 3 involvements in the one play, just ridiculous.

Memory isn't an asset of QLDers in these debates. It just makes them come across as bitter.

 

[TheDalek079]

pointing out the Knights' spoon in 2005 is just trolling. They went on a monster losing streak when Joey was injured. He returns and they start winning again. Knights won 8 games in total that year. He won 8 from 16 that year. Only got the spoon because newcastle were ordinary without him

 

[macavity]

The QLDers should be arguing over Thurston v Lockyer, to determine who is the distant second behind Johns.

 

[DiegoNT]

pointing out the Knights' spoon in 2005 is just trolling. They went on a monster losing streak when Joey was injured. He returns and they start winning again. Knights won 8 games in total that year. He won 8 from 16 that year. Only got the spoon because newcastle were ordinary without him

Compare that to Thurstons 2008 and 2010 season where he played 17 games both years for 4 and 3 wins respectively

 

[sensesmaybenumbed]

Shots fired!

 

[carcharias]

Thurston

[youtube]ZfQe9Tt5Vrk[/youtube]

johns

[youtube]qEeEu9o3Nyg[/youtube]


at least Joey is off his chops.

Thurston is sober and reckons NSW have conspired to get a south Sydney and rabbitohs grand final.
WTF?

 

[perverse]

Thurston a better runner of the ball. Both good kicking games, but Johns more innovative. Hard to split their passing games. Johns monsters JT as a defender.

Johns lifted the team around him more than any other player I've seen. It's his most difficult attribute to quantify, but it was very real.

I would have Johns, personally... but JT has put himself in the conversation at least. Not sure where Locky fits in, but he's in the same ballpark.

 

[Rod]

Thurston a better runner of the ball. Both good kicking games, but Johns more innovative. Hard to split their passing games. Johns monsters JT as a defender.

Johns lifted the team around him more than any other player I've seen. It's his most difficult attribute to quantify, but it was very real.

I would have Johns, personally... but JT has put himself in the conversation at least. Not sure where Locky fits in, but he's in the same ballpark.

Agreed Thurston is better at running the ball, partially just through naturally being faster and more elusive. Johns was an expert at scoring himself from 5-10m out though.

Agreed about the rest, both have similar kicking and passing skills although I personally think Johns chose and executed the right kick more often. Their attacking skills in general are pretty close though.

I think one of the big things with Johns was the intangibles like you say. When he was in the side some very average Knights players grew 10 feet tall. Conversely when he was ruled out through injury they would often just wilt. Even in Origin you would hear stories from blokes in the NSW camp about when he would turn up to training and the whole thing just lifted a few notches.

 

[Hutty1986]

Both brett kimmorley and geoff toovey were preferred over johns.

Says it all really.

John had a couple of good games that's it.

He won a couple of spoons too.

Not that anyone needed any further proof that you are truly geniused, but here it is.

 

[FAS33]

Andrew Johns is not even in the top 5 players of all time. Thurston wins as always.