Junior/Age Based World Cup

[yakstorm]

As raised by many posters on here before, one of the missing gaps in Rugby League's international calendar has been a tournament or World Cup for that 16 - 21 age group.

That group of players who are still young enough to learn and develop, but old enough to showcase that they have enough talent for a club to make an offer for.

Naturally, whilst most would love such a tournament to exist the reality is considering the RLIF has more important priorities (ie. Finding new revenue streams) such a concept needs to be driven from other groups with the RLIF supporting versus leading (at least initially)

As such having something like a 16 team tournament, with qualifiers, played in multiple venues isn't really a reality in the short term.

My question to the group is what are the must haves that such a tournament needs to be worthwhile, but sustainable so such an event could get up and be played more than once.

Some of the items that I'm keen to hear about include:

- What age barrier should be set for the tournament? (Ie. 18's, 20's)
- How many teams should be allowed to take part?
- How are those teams selected? (Ie. Should it just be whoever can afford to take part? Is it targeted? )
- Where should such a tournament be played initially?
- How often should such a tournament be played? (Ie. 4 Years)
- What are the player selection rules? (Should any heritage players be allowed? Should it be residents only? Do we need a combination of rules?)

Naturally any opinions are welcome.

 

[The Partisan]

Some of the items that I'm keen to hear about include:


- What age barrier should be set for the tournament? (Ie. 18's, 20’s) Personally I would go for 18 or 19 ..probably the latter. 16’s is just a bit too young in my opinion.


- How many teams should be allowed to take part? Maximum of 12. Preferably with no more than 3 countries from one region. (NB. Exemption : Asia ~ Pacific to not include Australia and New Zealand in this quota)


- How are those teams selected? (Ie. Should it just be whoever can afford to take part? Is it targeted? ) Preferably by invitation from the RLIF with financial assistance offered to those in genuine need.


- Where should such a tournament be played initially? If played in the southern hemisphere - Fiji and NZ to increase the game’s profile. If in the Northern Hemisphere - Wales, (lower) Scotland and non - RL heartland areas of England.



- How often should such a tournament be played? (Ie. 4 Years) 4 years


- What are the player selection rules? (Should any heritage players be allowed? Should it be residents only? Do we need a combination of rules?) Combination preferably with incentives offered / given to those ‘non traditional’ RL countries who can show a ‘reasonable’ balance of heritage and resident players.


So come the 125th Anniversary of our great game in 2020 I look forward to the first round where …….Scotland meets Canada in Glasgow, Italy play Serbia in Bristol; NZ take on England in Cornwall; Wales host South Africa in Wrexham; Australia clash with France in Southhampton and PNG tango with Jamaica in London’s south east.

 

[Last Week]

Meets, play, take on, host, clash and tango with. Sorry, that stood out alot for me.

Under 19's.
The number of nations competing I don't think is too important. Which ever nations can develop competitive sides. Which I fear is only 4, maybe 5 nations currently.
Not fussed on where it's played but it should be every two years imo. If it's only ever 4 years, it will prevent alot of kids from having a chance to represent. For example, say there was a youth world cup this year. A kid who's 16 this year isn't likely to make the team, but he'll be 20 and ineligible by the time the next cup rolled around.

 

[latingringo101]

The NSWRL run junior aged competitions which involve representative and international teams for U/16s and U/18s.

It works out well because kids start when they're in year 8 and finish at Year 12 (U/18s) and can play representative Football from ages 14-18. (Plus helps the NRL encourage non Sydney Shield and rep players to try our sport).

For Internationals I don't know how'd they do it because different countries finish schooling at different ages.

Soccer have U/17s and 20s and Rugby have trialled different systems as well.

I'd go with 16s and 18s to start off with.

 

[The Partisan]

Meets, play, take on, host, clash and tango with. Sorry, that stood out alot for me.

Just couldn't use 'V' (as in versus) 6 times like a program ( or is it programme ???)

 

[yakstorm]

Some good contributions so far, so thanks everyone.

To compare with other sports, Football (Soccer) run Under 20s and Under 17s tournaments every two years. Rugby Union use to run Under 19s and Under 21s before combining them in an Under 20s tournament held annually.

Cricket run an Under 19s tournament every 2 years, so comparing, it sounds like 18-19 is the ideal age, if only one age group can be afforded (16-17s for the other if possible) and ideally every 2 years if not annually should be the approach.

From a cost perspective whilst places like Fiji would be great, I think air fares from areas like Europe, Africa and Americas might make it a bit hard initially.

 

[latingringo101]

Some good contributions so far, so thanks everyone.

To compare with other sports, Football (Soccer) run Under 20s and Under 17s tournaments every two years. Rugby Union use to run Under 19s and Under 21s before combining them in an Under 20s tournament held annually.

Cricket run an Under 19s tournament every 2 years, so comparing, it sounds like 18-19 is the ideal age, if only one age group can be afforded (16-17s for the other if possible) and ideally every 2 years if not annually should be the approach.

From a cost perspective whilst places like Fiji would be great, I think air fares from areas like Europe, Africa and Americas might make it a bit hard initially.

It really depends where its being played.

If for example in Australia you could field about 10 or so nations under RLIF rules.

Samoa, Cook Islands, Fiji, Tonga, PNG, NZ, Australia and even countries like Philippines, China (Hong Kong), Korea, Greece, Serbia and Vietnam due to the ethnic demographic of Eastern Australia (especially Sydney)

If it was held in somewhere like the UK it'd be countries like the Home nations & Ireland, France, Serbia and maybe Australia, NZ, PNG, Samoa, Fiji & Canada.

That'd be (in my opinion) the most realistic options if it was held in RL heartlands right now. Maybe in the future it could expand and get more diverse if they wanted to depeding as you said on $$$.

 

[deluded pom?]

With regards to the timing I agree with Last Week. Four years could see a player miss selection completely. Every two years would be better. Personally I would also make it residents only. I don't see what's to gain at age restricted tournaments if, for example, Italy are 80% heritage players, when some may well go on to represent another nation.

 

[siv]

U18s 9s World Cup was very successful

I would keep this going

But we should add a U20s World Cup also

In soccer these development tournaments are extremely important in maintain8ng the standards and selection pathways

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

The kids are a lot closer as has been seen with the various age groups over the years especially outside the top 3 (as usual) but not as dramatic when they need to step up against the established nations. France and Wales spring to mind straight away.

This is the age they can start showing their stuff if such an event were to take place, problem is though, big events with our youngsters will indeed showcase their talents, but now along with Union, we have the NFL and afl looking at our talent, do we open it up and let them cherry pick our best at their youngest age with their bigger paycheques?

It,s a hard one.

 

[deluded pom?]

The kids are a lot closer as has been seen with the various age groups over the years especially outside the top 3 (as usual) but not as dramatic when they need to step up against the established nations. France and Wales spring to mind straight away.

This is the age they can start showing their stuff if such an event were to take place, problem is though, big events with our youngsters will indeed showcase their talents, but now along with Union, we have the NFL and afl looking at our talent, do we open it up and let them cherry pick our best at their youngest age with their bigger paycheques?

It,s a hard one.

What's to stop league's best young talent being snapped up by other sports now? Is there a queue of NFL or union scouts at junior league games? Union scouting young league players I could understand but the NFL pump millions if not billions into the college game in America. I'm sure they'd be more than happy to give a trial to players from outside AF but it would be a case of the player actively seeking the trial rather than a club scouting them. Plenty of RL coaches from both hemispheres have been to NFL clubs to see how they go about things and I would think AF coaches are aware of rugby, be it union or league, but I've never heard of a NFL club ever actively scouting a rugby player. Jarryd Hayne isn't going to change this scenario any time soon.

 

[yakstorm]

I think one thing that would have to be very strict for such a tournament is player eligibility.

Something like selection is limited to:
- Residents of the respective nation
- Players born in that respective nation
- Limit of 6 heritage players in the squad

That way nations like NZ which have a number of players based in Australia (but born and bred in NZ) aren't hurt.

Full heritage teams are no good for anyone. It hurts the event's credibility and doesn't do anything for development. On the other hand a few in the squad helps competitiveness and can help develop those players from the original country improve.

We shouldn't worry about other codes attempting to steal our players. They already scout and cherrypick the players they want.

At least by us creating a vehicle to showcase this talent to NRL and Super League clubs we might be able to pick these players up before say Union makes an offer (or at least give the kid options) and also convince some athletes who are gifted at multiple sports to give League a go.

 

[Last Week]

What's to stop league's best young talent being snapped up by other sports now? Is there a queue of NFL or union scouts at junior league games? Union scouting young league players I could understand but the NFL pump millions if not billions into the college game in America. I'm sure they'd be more than happy to give a trial to players from outside AF but it would be a case of the player actively seeking the trial rather than a club scouting them. Plenty of RL coaches from both hemispheres have been to NFL clubs to see how they go about things and I would think AF coaches are aware of rugby, be it union or league, but I've never heard of a NFL club ever actively scouting a rugby player. Jarryd Hayne isn't going to change this scenario any time soon.

Actually, the NFL do very little in regards to development. It's mostly in the colleges where development is done. Below that is the little leagues which are generally self funded.

 

[deluded pom?]

Actually, the NFL do very little in regards to development. It's mostly in the colleges where development is done. Below that is the little leagues which are generally self funded.

So the colleges don't get any financial help from NFL teams when they are producing the players the NFL needs to exist?

 

[Last Week]

So the colleges don't get any financial help from NFL teams when they are producing the players the NFL needs to exist?

I'm not certain, but I don't think so.

Most college football is self funded. They also get Saturday nights to themselves for TV rights. No NFL is played on a Saturday. It's an agreement the NFL and colleges have.

 

[The Partisan]

It really depends where its being played.

If for example in Australia you could field about 10 or so nations under RLIF rules.

Samoa, Cook Islands, Fiji, Tonga, PNG, NZ, Australia and even countries like Philippines, China (Hong Kong), Korea, Greece, Serbia and Vietnam due to the ethnic demographic of Eastern Australia (especially Sydney)

If it was held in somewhere like the UK it'd be countries like the Home nations & Ireland, France, Serbia and maybe Australia, NZ, PNG, Samoa, Fiji & Canada.

That'd be (in my opinion) the most realistic options if it was held in RL heartlands right now. Maybe in the future it could expand and get more diverse if they wanted to depeding as you said on $$$.

Despite being an ardent advocate for a youth event , Yes if being realistic ....this is probably our status for the next dozen or so years even if we started this year.

Maybe we start slow with regional tournaments to build up the game's profile and playing ranks in new markets. Obviously reduces costs as well.

Would mind seeing an Under 20's Five Nations though ! Australia; NZ; England; PNG and France

 

[jim_57]

I'd prefer an structure that sees the best nations play tournaments yearly at under 18 level. Every 2 years is still disadvantages 50% of players due to their age.

I would go with a 6 nations every 3 of 4 years, Australia, NZ, England, France and PNG being permanent as easily the 5 countries where RL is strongest. After that have an annual qualifier from whichever region it is hosted in.

For qualifiers involve anyone who wants to play, with domestic quotas. For countries ineligible to qualify maybe try and organize warm up games if financially viable.

I believe this should be a big priority going forward for the RLIF and all nations. Get the best Under 18's from the likes of France, Wales, PNG, Fiji etc on show against the big gun's juniors every year and watch them get snapped up by NRL/SL clubs. Turning countries like this in to genuine junior nurseries is the key for the medium to long term.

 

[hutch]

There should be a youth World Cup every single year. 18's, 19's or 20's.

 

[jim_57]

There should be a youth World Cup every single year. 18's, 19's or 20's.

Whilst I agree eventually this should be the goal, I think an under 18 6 nations every year with a Youth World Cup (10 teams+) coinciding with the festival of World Cups every 4 years.

Say starting in 2018, Australia, NZ, England, France & PNG as auto qualifiers every year. + is anyone who wants to and can afford to try theit luck in qualifiers.

2018:
Atlantic: USA, Canada, Jamaica +
Pacific: Fiji, Samoa, Tonga, South Africa+
Euro (qualifiers): Wales, Ireland, Scotland, Serbia+
6 Nations in UK/France

2019:
Qualifiers: Atlantic 1 V Europe 1 V Pacific 1
6 Nations running alongside Confed Cup.

2020:
Youth World Cup qualifiers
Pacific (qualifiers) - winner plays end of year 4 nations, 2nd-4/5th qualify for Youth World Cup
6 Nations in Australia/NZ/Pacific.

2021:
Youth World Cup

Of course such a comprehensive structure would need to be built towards and strategically planned for finance. Junior development should be one of the key objectives of the RLIF moving forward, getting the best juniors from around the World snapped up from junior comps and watch the senior International scene flourish in years to come.

 

[hutch]

Rugby union under 20’s world championship games are all over fox sports this week. Surely this is something we should be aiming for as an extra tournament for rugby league every year or second year at worst.