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Junior Amone

Slippery Morris

Slippery Morris

First Grade
Messages
7,868
Saints have not learnt much from past errors. Having him train with the squad adds no benefit to the players apart from Junior and his wellbeing. Unless he trains with the juniors or reserve teams to help them out and keep him connected to the club. At the end of the day he got himself in this terrible situation why should the rest of the team suffer especially guys playing for their futures in the halves like Bud.
 
R

redandwhite4evr

Juniors
Messages
1,927
Mojo said:
I've got radical suggestion: how about players start acting like adults and respectable citizens instead of being moronic, juvenile posers so that they don't put the Club that has given them opportunities beyond belief into untenable positions?

The NRL's no fault standdown policy doesn't defy the principal of innocence until proven guilty - it temporarily prevents possible violent criminals from participating in the game pending the findings of the legal process.

These guys owe the club - not the other way around.

Police don't lay charges without very good reasons.

What would happen if we had Ivan Millat playing 1st grade and let him continue playing until he was found guilty?
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The stand down policy imo has to strike a balance between punishing the alleged criminal while ensuring the club, its sponsors, members and supporters aren't unduly disadvantaged. We've only got the De Belin case to go from but I'm far from convinced that the club was not unduly punished during that process- even allowing for that dribbler Mary being in charge at the time.
 
Mojo

Mojo

Bench
Messages
4,064
redandwhite4evr said:
The stand down policy imo has to strike a balance between punishing the alleged criminal while ensuring the club, its sponsors, members and supporters aren't unduly disadvantaged. We've only got the De Belin case to go from but I'm far from convinced that the club was not unduly punished during that process- even allowing for that dribbler Mary being in charge at the time.
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Yes, but it's De Belin and Amone who put the club in difficult positions; nobody else. I don't think the club should be expected to support them and nurse their psyches etc. They owe the club for everything they have achieved and obtained in their lives to-date and they should take full responsibility for their actions, morals, ethics and behaviours generally, which is what being and adult is all about. Legal guilt or innocence is a separate consideration to be determined by the courts.

If you've been charged with a serious crime you can park your arse out of the way, over there, until we find out whether you're innocent or guilty, and consider yourself extremely lucky to be paid full pay until then. Meanwhile, think very seriously about what you've done and all the people you've let down, including your team mates - and fkn grow up.

These guys can only get into these shitfight situations by being immature egomaniacs to start with. Talk about 'culture': it starts and ends with simple, clear, reasonable standards that every individual in the organisation understands, identifies with and accepts.
 
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R

redandwhite4evr

Juniors
Messages
1,927
Mojo said:
Yes, but it's De Belin and Amone who put the club in difficult positions; nobody else. I don't think the club should be expected to support them and nurse their psyches etc. They owe the club for everything they have achieved and obtained in their lives to-date and they should take full responsibility for their actions, morals, ethics and behaviours generally, which is what being and adult is all about. Legal guilt or innocence is a separate consideration to be determined by the courts.

If you've been charged with a serious crime you can park your arse out of the way, over there, until we find out whether you're innocent or guilty, and consider yourself extremely lucky to be paid full pay until then. Meanwhile, think very seriously about what you've done and all the people you've let down, including your team mates - and fkn grow up.

These guys can only get into these shitfight situations by being immature egomaniacs to start with. Talk about 'culture': it starts and ends with simple, clear, reasonable standards that every individual in the organisation understands, identifies with and accepts.
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No argument with any of that- however, I'm just saying that the innocent parties- the remaining players, sponsors, members and rusted on supporters shouldn't have to support a team that can't go and recruit a decent like for like replacement asap. When SGI finally got the go ahead for a replacement player in the De Belin case, the restrictions on the cap and contract duration made attracting a decent player virtually impossible.
 
The Silverdale Phantom

The Silverdale Phantom

Coach
Messages
17,078
Mojo said:
Yes, but it's De Belin and Amone who put the club in difficult positions; nobody else. I don't think the club should be expected to support them and nurse their psyches etc. They owe the club for everything they have achieved and obtained in their lives to-date and they should take full responsibility for their actions, morals, ethics and behaviours generally, which is what being and adult is all about. Legal guilt or innocence is a separate consideration to be determined by the courts.

If you've been charged with a serious crime you can park your arse out of the way, over there, until we find out whether you're innocent or guilty, and consider yourself extremely lucky to be paid full pay until then. Meanwhile, think very seriously about what you've done and all the people you've let down, including your team mates - and fkn grow up.

These guys can only get into these shitfight situations by being immature egomaniacs to start with. Talk about 'culture': it starts and ends with simple, clear, reasonable standards that every individual in the organisation understands, identifies with and accepts.
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Solid outing of a post, but Junior was incapable of comprehending basic community expectations let alone higher level club responsibilities.

The damage is done, but prevention still beckons.

Apart from his competitors in the squad, if you did a survey, my bet is that some stragglers would still excuse his conduct on mateship basis.

And their position wouldn’t be so different to Alberts who was a big scalp for the integrity faction. He had to go, I understand that.

And picking up the pieces, it’s these blokes and that line of thinking that needs rectifying quick smart.

Some players might not fully appreciate the damage caused. It harms each one of them indirectly and creates obstacles for game planning etc.

Maybe one day innocent but effected players will be able to express their disappointment about these things in a more truthful context.

Put some ongoing public peer pressure on players to behave. Make it more open.

Get the pressure put on by their work colleagues.

The closing of ranks, does it work?
 
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Mojo

Mojo

Bench
Messages
4,064
redandwhite4evr said:
No argument with any of that- however, I'm just saying that the innocent parties- the remaining players, sponsors, members and rusted on supporters shouldn't have to support a team that can't go and recruit a decent like for like replacement asap. When SGI finally got the go ahead for a replacement player in the De Belin case, the restrictions on the cap and contract duration made attracting a decent player virtually impossible.
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Yes, I get it. But that's why these boofheads need to understand that their off-field 'misbehaviour' has the potential to completely ruin their club, which of course has huge implications for everyone they are associated with. Like any employees of any other entity, they can't just be aggressive or violent dickheads and party animals to the point of breaking the law. Full stop. Equally, like other employers, sports clubs have to take care to select decent human beings as their employees. Moreso than usual in fact because their on-field employees are very much public figures. IMO, there should be no 'relief' provided for either the player or the club. All clubs, especially Saints apparently, and all players need to get their shit together pronto or suffer the consequences.

PS: I've supported Saints for over 60 years. I know there's always been plenty of rough-arsed idiots, mongrels and criminal lowlife in and around the game (there's also been many truly wonderful guys too). These days players are paid squillions, made famous, watched and reported upon in real time, and I expect much more of them accordingly.
 
Mojo

Mojo

Bench
Messages
4,064
The Silverdale Phantom said:
Solid outing of a post, but Junior was incapable of comprehending basic community expectations let alone higher level club responsibilities.

The damage is done, but prevention still beckons.

Apart from his competitors in the squad, if you did a survey, my bet is that some stragglers would still excuse his conduct on mateship basis.

And their position wouldn’t be so different to Alberts who was a big scalp for the integrity faction. He had to go, I understand that.

And picking up the pieces, it’s these blokes and that line of thinking that needs rectifying quick smart.

Some players might not fully appreciate the damage caused. It harms each one of them indirectly and creates obstacles for game planning etc.

Maybe one day innocent but effected players will be able to express their disappointment about these things in a more truthful context.

Put some ongoing public peer pressure on players to behave. Make it more open.

Get the pressure put on by their work colleagues.

The closing of ranks, does it work?
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If Junior is incapable of comprehending that you can't attack people with a hammer (as alleged), even if provoked, then I don't want him playing for us. Quaint, I know. Personally, the more lowlife behaviour comes to light, the less I want to support them. Simple.
Clean up this BS and play some decent footy FFS! It's not complicated. How long are we going to tolerate this crap?
 
Old Timer

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
17,776
If they weren't playing footy for a living what would they be doing?

Community / media expectation is way to high and IMO players of today are on par with players of yesteryear re behaviour and the fact is little has changed.

Their stature as "role models" is one we keep giving them and is a total myth.
 
Mojo

Mojo

Bench
Messages
4,064
Old Timer said:
If they weren't playing footy for a living what would they be doing?

Community / media expectation is way to high and IMO players of today are on par with players of yesteryear re behaviour and the fact is little has changed.

Their stature as "role models" is one we keep giving them and is a total myth.
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I agree. One thing that has changed dramatically though is their remuneration. They are now paid to be professionals who can and should be reasonably expected to be exemplary citizens. If they can't meet that standard, then as far as I am concerned, they can revert to whatever else they can do to earn a living - which in these particular cases is probably nothing much.

I'll also point to the elephant in the room in terms of what's changed between the 'old days' and current: not referring to any particular individual, but I very strongly suspect the 'recreational' use and abuse of narcotics, especially cocaine, is another very significant factor that contributes to this sort of behaviour.

I suspect, the massive money and the foolishly casual indulgence in the 'party drug' culture go hand in hand.
 
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