Junior Development and Reward for Clubs

[Dogs Of War]

Do the Raiders really think giving Ennis a big long term deal into his 30s is better than if they'd spent the last couple of years developing a gun hooker?

It will help other positions (and even a young hooker) to have Ennis using his experience to lead the team around the field. Ultimately you would look to find a replacement hooker while Ennis is still there, so you can use them as a change of pace. No different to what was happening with Luke and Peats.

 

[Pete Cash]

Bm is weirdly ageist. Men don't start to physically fall to bits until they are a lot older than 30. It's just wear and tear starts to catch up on pro sportsmen. The facts are at present the raiders don't have a hooker as good as Ennis even though he is a decrepit 30 year old man.

 

[Bulldog Force]

Mate i have said all along that Canberra should just be buying talent, not trying to import talent from logan or wherever they find their stocks.
They have a few areas where they bring their own juniors from, but mostly they have scouts or are aligned to another heartland area, as in Logan.

This will also stop them from having to go through the junior nonsense they do at the moment. Every time they find a kid he either wants to go home to the big citiy or move to another club offering more.

The easy way for canberra is to buy talent, like the old days, Meninga, Belcher, Walters and etc.

The Titans should own Logan, and the Titans need to start tapping into the Kiwi and Polynesian player pool in these areas. There team looks like the old white Australia policy team.

I also think that where the Titnas are at the moment, and the amount of Kiwis moving to the Gold coast areas, this club should sell half of the club to Wellington and become a duel city team to grow the club. The AFL has done this with the Hawks and the Tassie capital.
Rugby league now needs to be smart and expand by not adding extra teams, but by doubling the fan base and bringing in new areas through expansion of clubs who continue to struggle. The Sharks to share with Adelaide next.
Manly with the Sunshine coast.

It's hard for the Raiders. Canberra is such a dull, boring city well inland. It's also cold and frosty down there. Players want to be involved in bigger cities like Sydney and Brisbane, and in some cases Melbourne, where there are plenty of things for young people to do. Canberra... doesn't really appeal to many people.

 

[blaza88z]

I said at the start of the whole Milford fiasco, if you're going to base your development in an area like Logan then you can expect players to pull the homesick card when they get to the point where there are other options available

 

[Pete Cash]

Over the last 5 or so years we've only lost a couple of players we have wanted to keep. Attracting talent to the raiders is a problem certainly but the problem with retention has been mostly a player behaviour issue.

 

[kbw]

NRL clubs should have nothing to do with junior RL apart from visiting the kids and running clinics and what not. They exist for the sole reason of winning the NRL, thats it. If they try and do anything else, and i mean anything else they will fail at both.

The ARL need to fund the state bodies to run and develop the junior comps. So junior clubs, school comps, etc etc all in an integrated development and competition strategy all the way up to just under the NRL level.

Do away with the 20s, have a full NRL 2nds comp as well.

I agree with alot of what you have said, although I do see examples of NRL clubs funding their juniors very successfully.

As far of the NRL clubs only existing to win the premiership that certainly is the case but I believe one of the problems with the game.

The NRL (as the ARL doesn't exist anymore I think) does fund the state etc and they are the ones that organise the school visits and clinics.
Unfortunately the NRL is so focused on marketing than doing any good for the kids

 

[Perth Red]

I agree with alot of what you have said, although I do see examples of NRL clubs funding their juniors very successfully.

As far of the NRL clubs only existing to win the premiership that certainly is the case but I believe one of the problems with the game.

The NRL (as the ARL doesn't exist anymore I think) does fund the state etc and they are the ones that organise the school visits and clinics.
Unfortunately the NRL is so focused on marketing than doing any good for the kids

The NRL and arlc and rugby league are one and the same these days. It is the NRL/arlc job to support jnr RL across the country, where there are pokie clubs putting in great, where there aren't the NRL needs to step up.

National insurance schemes, start up grants, national kit and equipment schemes etc etc they should be leading. It shouldn't cost a kid $200 to try RL at a jnr club!

The NRL club role is promotion, clinics with star players etc, u20's etc

 

[Noa]

The only exemption that should be used is for players who stick with a club for x amount of years e.g. 8.

 

[Noa]

I want the NRL to come out and say we will NEVER,EVER give cap exemptions Or rewad clubs just because you signed a 14 or 15 year old influenced by nothing else but self-interest.

 

[Captain Apollo]

Going by this article on the Sydney Morning Herald's website, looks like the Wests Tigers are the latest club to spit the dummy on this -

Tedesco-less Wests Tigers threaten to stop rugby league junior production line

May 27, 2014 - 9:24PM
by Adrian Proszenko
Chief Rugby League Reporter



Wests Tigers have threatened to stop developing players if the NRL will not compensate them for the loss of home-grown talent like Canberra-bound fullback James Tedesco.

Tedesco will earn almost as much in three years in the nation's capital as he could if he had accepted a four-year deal to stay put after signing a deal worth about $2 million.

Canberra's spending spree may not be over, with the Green Machine also chasing Canterbury skipper Michael Ennis. However the Raiders missed out on another of their targets when New Zealand forward Kevin Proctor re-signed with the Melbourne Storm on a four-year deal.

Ironically, Camden junior Tedesco has been picked up by a club that has complained vocally about rivals plundering its best home-grown products.

The Tigers have some of the best young junior talent in the game but chief executive Grant Mayer warned they could not afford to keep investing in grassroots football if they were simply developing players for rivals to pick off.

"The reality is James will play against us next year and when he makes his Canberra debut we get nothing from that after spending money on him for eight years," Mayer said.

"For us, that's not sustainable. If we're going to continue being one of four or five clubs developing players over many years, the NRL has to seriously consider how they assist those developing clubs. At the end of the day, if 25 per cent of the 16 teams are doing all the development, we are the ones losing that money.

"Development costs could be anywhere between $600,000 and a million a year, and we don't get any return for that apart from feeling nice about the fact we develop players."

Mayer said it was not a case of "sour grapes" and pointed to the fact the joint-venture outfit recently retained seven of the eight local juniors it had produced on long-term contracts. Rather than asking for salary cap dispensation, the premiership-winning administrator said the NRL should offer a club that loses a player it developed to a rival a fee – say, $50,000 if he plays first grade, $75,000 for Origin and $100,000 for Test representation. That money would then be reinvested into grassroots and development, which could benefit the game as a whole.

"Canberra have been bitten by this a number of times in the past decade; this is not us against Canberra," he said.

"We need to address it because 12 other clubs are looking at our juniors, Canberra's juniors and Penrith's juniors, and saying, 'I want to have a crack at that.'

"Canberra, Wests Tigers and the other developing clubs need to go into the NRL as a group and get their development thoughts going forward.

"Otherwise we, like Canberra, may decide to stop doing it. If clubs stop doing that altogether, the game as a whole will suffer."

Tedesco has been plagued by a series of injuries, but has emerged as a game-breaker after forging a strong partnership with halfback Luke Brooks. After missing out on Anthony Milford, the Raiders now have another rising No.1.

Tedesco broke the news to his teammates on Tuesday morning.

''It wasn't easy to tell the guys, they are a great group of players, and close friends of mine,'' Tedesco said.

''I'm fully committed to Wests Tigers for the remainder of the 2014 season and can't wait to get back onto the field and join my teammates."

 

[Pete Cash]

I want the NRL to come out and say we will NEVER,EVER give cap exemptions Or rewad clubs just because you signed a 14 or 15 year old influenced by nothing else but self-interest.

Clubs get rewarded for nothing more than a fluke of geography/circumstances with tpas. At least the raiders, wests, panthers etc are doing something for the game by developing juniors. Why shouldn't the raiders have cap exemptions for junior development when they are punished by geography. There isn't a lot of third party money in Canberra in comparison to say Brisbane.

 

[MacDougall]

I said at the start of the whole Milford fiasco, if you're going to base your development in an area like Logan then you can expect players to pull the homesick card when they get to the point where there are other options available

... are you saying that people want to go back to Logan when they leave?

f**king madness.

 

[Noa]

Clubs get rewarded for nothing more than a fluke of geography/circumstances with tpas. At least the raiders, wests, panthers etc are doing something for the game by developing juniors. Why shouldn't the raiders have cap exemptions for junior development when they are punished by geography. There isn't a lot of third party money in Canberra in comparison to say Brisbane.

Every team does there bit for junior development, its just easier for some due to there geographical and socioeconomic location, which I first argued years ago on here.

The costs would be astronomical for clubs like Easts, Melbourne and Manly to finance the quantity of the big junior producers.

And let's not cry poor, its no coincidence the big nurseries also contain some of the wealthiest clubs, at least asset wise.

 

[Perth Red]

Thing they seem to miss the point that everyone has same salary cap. He was offered over $150k a year more by Canberra. How could the tigers have kept him regardless of a payment for developing? Not putting money into jnr development does not hive them more money for players salaries. It makes zero sens what they are threatening. As the article says they signed 7 out of 8, stop being greedy!

Also I hope the NRL clubs that pick up our or NT or Png or NZ jnrs are feel the same about compensating the relevant clubs that produce them?

 

[Sunshine Coast Tiger]

Thing they seem to miss the point that everyone has same salary cap. He was offered over $150k a year more by Canberra. How could the tigers have kept him regardless of a payment for developing? Not putting money into jnr development does not hive them more money for players salaries. It makes zero sens what they are threatening. As the article says they signed 7 out of 8, stop being greedy!

Also I hope the NRL clubs that pick up our or NT or Png or NZ jnrs are feel the same about compensating the relevant clubs that produce them?

The point is whilst many teams get around the salary cap by having almost unlimited source of TPA money there is no incentive for the clubs that develop their juniors and have the best players cherry picked by the richer clubs.

The NRL could make it a more level playing filed by rewarding teams like the Tigers, Raiders and Panthers either by increases in the salary cap above the other NRL sides salary cap or by massive discounts on the value of local juniors contracts when assessing the salary cap.

In most other sports the Tigers would have either got a hefty transfer fee or massive draft picks for losing a player like Tedesco, it just goes to show the current NRL system is not working for the sides that actually care about junior development.

 

[Noa]

It wouldn't make it a level playing field, it would do the exact opposite.

In no other sport would the tigers have got anything because he was out of contract

 

[Pete Cash]

Every team does there bit for junior development, its just easier for some due to there geographical and socioeconomic location, which I first argued years ago on here.

The costs would be astronomical for clubs like Easts, Melbourne and Manly to finance the quantity of the big junior producers.

And let's not cry poor, its no coincidence the big nurseries also contain some of the wealthiest clubs, at least asset wise.

At present the raiders have to compete against clubs who have easier access to tpa. Why should a club gain an advantage because it's got access to a lot of tpa and not because they have access to a lot of juniors.

 

[super_coach]

Mayers timing is all wrong and it sounds like sour grapes, but the situation has to be addressed. Their are clubs who spend a quillion on junior development and others who just plunder the market place. With the system we have in place now their is no reward for having junior systems in place.

Okay people will say,"how can the chooks put a junior system in place in the eastern suburbs of Sydney"you do what the Tigers do and get a partnership going with a school like Kereba. Also look at Balmain,they won the Ball in 2012,2013 and came close this year and they have a small catchment area but a great system in place.

Their has to be substantial rewards to encourage clubs to grow their own talent, this could come in the form of a salary cap reduction or a one off payment back into the clubs junior system.

This comes up every year when a team gets a quality junior poached by another outfit but like with most things in the NRL bugger all ever happens

 

[Captain Apollo]

What amazes me is that this happens in just about every other business in the world. An organisation hires someone, trains them up, yet they leave for a more lucrative job. Do you seriously think that the organisation who trained that employee gets any recompense? Hello, welcome to the real world.

Just because it is rugby league, it isn't any different, and players, who are off contract have the right to sign with whom they want, they are not owned by the club they started with.

In terms of the Tigers, better salary cap management might have made it easier for them to re-sign Tedesco. How many players have they got on big money, long term contracts who many here think are dud or past it?

In the wider perspective, the issue stems that where the game has changed in the last 50 odd years, the whole basis of junior rugby league has not, with much of NSW still carved up into territories which are the sole province of various clubs or (for country rl) groups. It is all well and good to say what clubs with smaller catchments should or shouldn't do, but try and go into funding clubs in someone else's "junior league area" and see what occurs.

 

[Perth Red]

Their are clubs who spend a quillion on junior development

NRl clubs or league clubs? How much do Wests Tigers NRL club spend out of their operating budget? Leagues clubs exist to support local sport, in fact you could argue that money syphoned off to NRL clubs from leagues clubs is ripping off the local jnr sporting community. Those few million Wests/Balmain league clubs put into the NRL tigers could be funding jnr sport even more in their regions. NRL Tigers benefit from the investment in jnrs of the Balmain and Wests Leagues clubs, they should be grateful they exist, other clubs like Newcastle and Melbourne have to fund jnr development out of their NRL operating budgets.