Kapow - sandow

[forward pass]

Without wanting to be a downer, if SK leaves Hayne at 6, then God forbid if Sandow cops an injury, and misses any games, then we are pretty much in the same boat as we are now. I don't think Tonga or Loko would have made too much difference today.

 

[oldmancraigy]

Without wanting to be a downer, if SK leaves Hayne at 6, then God forbid if Sandow cops an injury, and misses any games, then we are pretty much in the same boat as we are now. I don't think Tonga or Loko would have made too much difference today.

It's a tad simplistic to say that we'd be in the same boat as today.

Look 6 weeks ago when we had something to play for - we played very good footy for 10 straight weeks, but only managed 2 wins because we couldn't put points on the board.

Plus you've forgotten we signed 2 playmakers for next season, PLUS that young half from Manly.
People can say what they want about Ben Roberts, but the fact is he can lay on a try through kick or pass. This years team has only 1 person who can create at all - so our offense is predictable inside the 20 (watch Hayne and shut him down - nobody else can do squat). In all honesty, if we'd had B Roberts from rounds 11-21 I'd wager we would've won more than 2 games - we were in every single game, but just couldn't score with all the possession we had!

You must also remember McGuire's form at hooker in the earlier rounds - he looked reasonably dangerous scooting from dummy half - since moving into the halves he's looked dreadful, but that's been the story his entire career. The blokes an attacking hooker.

Would Tonga/ Loko make a difference? Well, against Newcastle we win for sure and certain if we had a left center with half a brain - Hayne ran to the line 5-6 times in the last 10 minutes and threw a cutout ball to Morgan - who instead of running inside out and into a gap, ran outside in and into the defence.... At the time I was screaming at the tele 'run the other line next time!' - for certain a rep center like Tonga would have scored at least once there...
Now that's a small, but very tangible example of what a 'real' center can do as opposed to having a lumbering backrower out wide!!!

Add to that the fact that EVEN IF Sandow is injured (and really we do not want that) we have another playmaker in Roberts, Hayne will be back at fullback with the freedom to play his natural game, McGuire will be off the bench for quick impact AND the team might actually have something to play for.

We're not in the same boat as yesterday even if Sandow gets injured - we'll have more attacking options + something to play for.

 

[boxhead]

Honestly, after the crap Jarryd has been dishing up since he moved to five-eighth, I cannot understand why some people believe he will become a great five-eighth by partnering Sandow next year. Ironically, as has been pointed out, his potency has been reduced at five-eighth, and rather significantly at that.
He needs to go back to fullback, and Ben Roberts should be our five-eighth.
I won't even bother with the guy that thinks Hayne and Sandow will be the best halves combination in the NRL.
Hayne should focus on what has always been his biggest strength; his running game. His best form in 2010 and 2009 came from when he was supporting and had the confidence to aggresively take the line on.

 

[boxhead]

It's a tad simplistic to say that we'd be in the same boat as today.

Look 6 weeks ago when we had something to play for - we played very good footy for 10 straight weeks, but only managed 2 wins because we couldn't put points on the board.

Plus you've forgotten we signed 2 playmakers for next season, PLUS that young half from Manly.
People can say what they want about Ben Roberts, but the fact is he can lay on a try through kick or pass. This years team has only 1 person who can create at all - so our offense is predictable inside the 20 (watch Hayne and shut him down - nobody else can do squat). In all honesty, if we'd had B Roberts from rounds 11-21 I'd wager we would've won more than 2 games - we were in every single game, but just couldn't score with all the possession we had!

You must also remember McGuire's form at hooker in the earlier rounds - he looked reasonably dangerous scooting from dummy half - since moving into the halves he's looked dreadful, but that's been the story his entire career. The blokes an attacking hooker.

Would Tonga/ Loko make a difference? Well, against Newcastle we win for sure and certain if we had a left center with half a brain - Hayne ran to the line 5-6 times in the last 10 minutes and threw a cutout ball to Morgan - who instead of running inside out and into a gap, ran outside in and into the defence.... At the time I was screaming at the tele 'run the other line next time!' - for certain a rep center like Tonga would have scored at least once there...
Now that's a small, but very tangible example of what a 'real' center can do as opposed to having a lumbering backrower out wide!!!

Add to that the fact that EVEN IF Sandow is injured (and really we do not want that) we have another playmaker in Roberts, Hayne will be back at fullback with the freedom to play his natural game, McGuire will be off the bench for quick impact AND the team might actually have something to play for.

We're not in the same boat as yesterday even if Sandow gets injured - we'll have more attacking options + something to play for.

Great post. People forget that Willie is a left centre and that Sandow plays almost exclusively on the right-side; Sandow mght be first-receiver in a shift to the left, but it won't surprise me if our general left-side set plays for Tonga revolve around Roberts at first-receiver and then Hayne at second-receiver. Hayne can essentially play the same role he has done the past few years as a fullback, but if he is given more room to creatively attack and work around on both sides as a good supporting and attacking fullback should, I think he would provide more to the team.
I'm actually a bit worried about what our right side will be like; ideally, one would think we would want our best attacking (and defending, for that matter) ouside backs and second-rowers on the right, considering Sandow plays there. But the way it is shaping up at the moment, either Esi Tonga, Jacob Loko or Ryan Morgan would probably be the right-centre, and the right-winger spot is up for grabs; Atkins, Sio and Toutai perhaps?
I know Luke Burt plays on the left wing primarily, so maybe our outside backs will look like this;
2. Luke Burt
3. Willie Tonga
4. Esi Tonga
5. Ken Sio
We are in an interesting situation given that Loko is a specialist left centre and we have recruited one of the best left centres in the world, not forgetting Esi as well. I think Esi can comfortably play right centre, but I don't know what will happen regarding Jacob. If Luke can play right-wing it solves a lot of problems, because then Jacob can be moved to left wing where he would be much more comfortable. Ideally though, at right wing I would have either Sio or Toutai.

I think Esi and Ken are good enough to be a good to decent attacking combination when partnered with Sandow, neither of them are particularly large but they are both pretty quick, Ken especially. They would be dynamic if nothing else. Our right-hand defence is definitely going to be a worry though. As it stands, I would assume Esi and Ken or another rookie or perhaps a veteran in Atkins will play on the right, and when lining up next to Sandow it could create a lot of issues.

 

[Avenger]

I honestly think that Burt will struggle to make first grade next year.

 

[eel01s]

All I know is that I can't wait for Sandow to join us. Kearney will be a very busy boy over the off season, working out the make up of the side and the attacking structure.

At least he will have options at his disposal.

 

[forward pass]

Honestly, after the crap Jarryd has been dishing up since he moved to five-eighth, I cannot understand why some people believe he will become a great five-eighth by partnering Sandow next year. Ironically, as has been pointed out, his potency has been reduced at five-eighth, and rather significantly at that.
He needs to go back to fullback, and Ben Roberts should be our five-eighth.
I won't even bother with the guy that thinks Hayne and Sandow will be the best halves combination in the NRL.
Hayne should focus on what has always been his biggest strength; his running game. His best form in 2010 and 2009 came from when he was supporting and had the confidence to aggresively take the line on.

Boxy - Hayne is the ONLY attacking weapon we have, so did it not occur to you that every side we have played over the last month have set their defence to hammer Hayne at every opportunity. He is being met by three or four defenders EVERY time he gets the ball. It is a waste of time at the moment having him play there.

But with an attacking halfback next year, sides wont be able to mark 3 or 4 on Hayne. And if we had a clever dummy half, it would be even less pressure on him. He would carve it up.

 

[boxhead]

So is that an excuse for the fact that he performed far better in 2010 and earlier in the season at fullback? You seem to have missed that, good job. Incidentally, they were marking up on him as heavily during those periods too, and he still managed to be more effective.
His best position is obviously fullback, and frankly Ben Roberts has already proven he should be the first choice five-eighth next year.
He will quite obviously have less pressure on him next year, but if he is the five-eighth his role and thus his ability will be restricted. If you put Roberts at five-eighth then it allows far more attacking options than if Burt was the fullback.

 

[MrT]

Boxy - Hayne is the ONLY attacking weapon we have, so did it not occur to you that every side we have played over the last month have set their defence to hammer Hayne at every opportunity. He is being met by three or four defenders EVERY time he gets the ball. It is a waste of time at the moment having him play there.

But with an attacking halfback next year, sides wont be able to mark 3 or 4 on Hayne. And if we had a clever dummy half, it would be even less pressure on him. He would carve it up.

finally some sense spoken. Go even further and say, if Roberts can play well at 5/8, we'll be even more dangerous with Hayne running off the halves

 

[Eels Dude]

So is that an excuse for the fact that he performed far better in 2010 and earlier in the season at fullback? You seem to have missed that, good job. Incidentally, they were marking up on him as heavily during those periods too, and he still managed to be more effective.
His best position is obviously fullback, and frankly Ben Roberts has already proven he should be the first choice five-eighth next year.
He will quite obviously have less pressure on him next year, but if he is the five-eighth his role and thus his ability will be restricted. If you put Roberts at five-eighth then it allows far more attacking options than if Burt was the fullback.

Roberts hasn't proven anything yet. You could say he's the frontrunner but until he actually comes to our club, trains with the side, gels with team-mates and combinations, he hasn't proven anything.

 

[forward pass]

So is that an excuse for the fact that he performed far better in 2010 and earlier in the season at fullback? You seem to have missed that, good job.

Didn't miss it - it was irrelevant to the discussion.

and frankly Ben Roberts has already proven he should be the first choice five-eighth next year.

How - by playing reserves ???

 

[Poupou Escobar]

How - by playing reserves ???

At five-eighth.

The same position he's played nearly 70 first grade games.

 

[MrT]

At five-eighth.

The same position he's played nearly 70 first grade games.

Roberts should start at 5/8. I believe he can be solid by not trying too much. This will allow Hayne to inject himself from fullback.

Roberts was a nothing signing if we dont use him

 

[jono]

Roberts will be a good link between the likes of Sandow and Reni, and allow Hayne a bit more scope.
Which, at the end of the day , is what a five-eighth is sipposed to be

 

[boxhead]

Roberts hasn't proven anything yet. You could say he's the frontrunner but until he actually comes to our club, trains with the side, gels with team-mates and combinations, he hasn't proven anything.

He's done more at five-eighth than Jarryd has this year, and his form in recent years, and Jarryd's, suggests they should both be first choice in their respective positions - five-eighth and fullback. You are right, we won't really know until the pre-season but the current situation suggests that Hayne should not remain at 6.

Didn't miss it - it was irrelevant to the discussion.



How - by playing reserves ???

How is it irrelevant when my point was that he has been far less effective at five-eighth than at fullback in attack? :lol:
Riiiiiiight, because no player can possibly have done anything noteworthy in their careers if they are presently playing reserves. He was much better than Keating or even Hodkinson have been all season with limited game-time comparatively. The Bulldogs had to live by their big money signings. Roberts has shown more to me both this season and in the past to suggest that not only should he be five-eighth but Hayne should comfortably return to the fullback spot.

 

[oldmancraigy]

Didn't miss it - it was irrelevant to the discussion.



How - by playing reserves ???

He could've played reserves for reserve grade and he still would've shown more than the current 'options' we have for 5/8 next season.

Fact is Roberts is outstanding on his day - or can be awful when asked to overplay his hand.
His best season was when Kimmorly 'drove' the ship, and Roberts had second fiddle creativity - that was only 2009 (injured 2010) which is very recent history for him.

Sandow will be 'driving the ship', allowing Roberts to play his comfortable role of just fitting in on the left side, and providing real options inside the 20.
Plus his kicking game ranges from 'good' to absolutely sublime - we're going from 1 kicking option to 3 genuine first grade kickers.

 

[oldmancraigy]

Roberts will be a good link between the likes of Sandow and Reni, and allow Hayne a bit more scope.
Which, at the end of the day , is what a five-eighth is sipposed to be

stop it with the crazy sane talk!

 

[Joshuatheeel]

He could've played reserves for reserve grade and he still would've shown more than the current 'options' we have for 5/8 next season.

Fact is Roberts is outstanding on his day - or can be awful when asked to overplay his hand.
His best season was when Kimmorly 'drove' the ship, and Roberts had second fiddle creativity - that was only 2009 (injured 2010) which is very recent history for him.

Sandow will be 'driving the ship', allowing Roberts to play his comfortable role of just fitting in on the left side, and providing real options inside the 20.
Plus his kicking game ranges from 'good' to absolutely sublime - we're going from 1 kicking option to 3 genuine first grade kickers.

Roberts will fit in nicely next year. He has a very nice running and kicking game, but next year the defence will focus on limiting the room for Sandow, Hayne and Tonga - this will lead to Roberts getting some space to work some magic. With those four players next year the defence wont have the easy option like this year of just focusing on Hayne. Plus we have Reni getting the opportunity to work with 2 halves (Roberts and Sandow) who can actually put a player into a hole. And we haven't even mentioned Loco (especially if he makes a good return from injury). Exciting times

 

[jk13]

We don't need too many cooks in the kitchen. I see Roberts playing the submissive role and feeding the backline. When they concentrate on kapow and Hayne, then his opportunities may arise

 

[eels81236]

Roberts will fit in nicely next year. He has a very nice running and kicking game, but next year the defence will focus on limiting the room for Sandow, Hayne and Tonga - this will lead to Roberts getting some space to work some magic. With those four players next year the defence wont have the easy option like this year of just focusing on Hayne. Plus we have Reni getting the opportunity to work with 2 halves (Roberts and Sandow) who can actually put a player into a hole. And we haven't even mentioned Loco (especially if he makes a good return from injury). Exciting times

If Reni is not our MVP next year then I will give $1000 to a charity of the forums choice.