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Kearney should Dump Mortimer

mrpwnd

Bench
Messages
2,640
Boxhead, boxhead, boxhead. There's a reason why they call you Boxhead you dribbler.

Firstly, Luke Burt was never the form winger of the NRL. Never was & never will be. That's not being biased but is a fact. If he was he would have played Origin or Tests by now. Game over.

Secondly, I bet Twizzle is a nice person but doesn't give him any authority of what is Parramatta or Rugby League because he's a Moderator. If he respected my opinion & didn't shout it down & reply with dribble then I wouldn't call him a Dribbler you Dribbler.

Thirdly, club loyaltly doesn't win you comps mate. I wasn't questioning his loyalty but his football ability you Dribbler.

Finally, i'm anti-Burt because the guy is past it & we will not win a comp with him in the team. I'm sick of carrying the bloke.

Read the post from Gazzamatta & realise i'm not on my own here. He'll keep copping it from me until he's playing for Wenty.

GAME SET MATCH BOXHEAD YOU DRIBBLER
To be fair, he was never the same player after copping a knee right on his right ass cheek against Penrith Rd 25 last year, I think that just about shattered him.
Hopefully the giant purple mark is gone and he'll have a cracker in 2011.
 

boxhead

First Grade
Messages
5,958
Box mate, you got one thing wrong.
Boyd might seem like the form fullback, but the true form fullback will always be Hayne. Honestly, even after a sh*t season he still blows me.
The Guy Sebastian mistake above was intentional btw.

It depends on the perspective I guess, an out of form Hayne is still miles ahead of most of the other fullbacks bar Slater in terms of effectiveness and involvement even when they are all playing at their best, however I guess what I meant is that Boyd was showing better 'form', but Hayne is still the better player of course.
 

Ladmate

Bench
Messages
3,004
I agree with all that, to be honest Tom Humble's form at Wentworthville and the lack of form for both Mortimer and Robson throughout the season deserved a longer test as a starting half in 2010. The problem with pairing Humble and Murray however, is they are both 21 and 22/23, and neither have any first-grade experience whatsoever as NRL halves, which can turn into a disaster. My theory is that if you want to play one of them, you have to pick one and stick with them for the whole season. I believe Tom Humble is closer to first-grade than Brad Murray, and thus I believe he should get the bone; he was one of the QLD Cup's best halfbacks in 2009, I see no reason why he shouldn't be trialled there, or at five-eighth, along with either Robson, Mortimer, Hayne, Mcguire, etc. Humble also is a great utility player, who can fill in at winger, fullback, centre, hooker (I think), and in either halves role, so using him off the bench with Mortimer and a more experienced half as the starters is also a viable option.

Consequently, if you choose Brad Murray at halfback, you need to pair him with someone who has been in first-grade and has halves experience for at least two years.....Mortimer fits the bill, but of course a more experienced or dominant half may be necessary if Murray can't adapt well at first(which is likely). If we pick Murray, it will only exacerbate the need to move Hayne to five-eighth, whilst Mortimer likely plays a role off the bench as a hooker or back-up half.



I agree with all that :) However, using a young combination like Murray and Humble, of which neither has any real first-grade experience as a starting half, is an extremely massive risk.
I remember earlier in the year, and I was one of them, people were saying that if we trialled Humble and Murray it could be a great young combination mirroring Carney and Pearce. However, whilst there is a medium difference in ages, there is a big difference in playing experience between Carney/Pearce and Humble/Murray (if they are our 2011 halves combo). Todd Carney is 24 and has played around 100 games, having played about 80-85 games in the halves; he is already a very experienced player, and far more experienced than any of our young players. Mitchell Pearce is 21 and has played around 80 games, most if not all of them of course spent in the halves.

I believe in youthful experience of course, but the risk of pairing Murray and Humble when neither has any real first-grade experience (Mortimer has about 40 games, which isn't much better though) is probably too large, and considering neither is used to such a huge weight of expectation at being the first-grade halves in the NRL and also for a team expecting success like the Eels, it is likely to be a disaster.

However, what makes this issue complicated is the fact we now have Stephen Kearney in our team; a person who was part of the coaching staff that moulded Cooper Cronk into the halfback he is today, and a person who was part of a team focussed on bringing individual success out in every player and making them play to their potential. If Kearney uses his suppossedly great man-management skills and really coaches our team well and makes sure Humble and Murray know what to do, much like the Dragons and Storm do, then they have a big chance of doing well.
However, tossing the bone to them, whilst a good idea, is one that is far more risky than the other ideas we have. We will have to wait and see what Mr Kearney decides, I guess. It's a shame, I know, but we just have to wait.



Oh lord.....it gets even better.

Firstly, Luke Burt was the form winger of the NRL at the start of the year. You can wave his lack of an Origin record in front of my face and it doesn't change that fact; just because a player may have been the form player in a position of the NRL, does not mean they get picked for Origin or representative duties in that position or at all.
Example: Darius Boyd was the form fullback of the NRL in the first half of the season, but QLD stuck with Billy Slater there. A better example, Darius Boyd was the form fullback of the NRL but failed to get into the Australian side.
I can name a hundred examples, nay a thousand examples, but you just won't see the point so I don't care.

Secondly, I didn't say that Twizzle being a moderator gives him any special privileges in terms of argumentative advantage. Also, the fact that you called him a dribbler because he disagreed with you just makes me....well, laugh. Sorry buddy, but you are just so humorous.

Thirdly, when I say club loyalty you take it out of context. I was talking about why others didn't sign him, your response was just an excuse to talk about the 'failings' of Luke Burt as a player, when Twizzle previously indicated that Luke Burt was pretty much signed before he even came close to being off-contract because not only does the club fully recognise his services and what he offers to the club, but also because they don't want to lose a player who has been one of their best and, aside from the second half of the 2010 season, has continued to be one of their best. His goal-kicking didn't falter noticeably, did it? Or did I miss the close games we won this season on the back of near perfect goal-kicking by Luke Burt?

Finally, whether you believe we will not win the competition with the player or not is sadly irrelevant to me, because I believe we damn well have the potential to win a competition with him. We nearly won in 2009 with Luke Burt, if I can recall. We nearly won in 2001 with Luke Burt, if I can recall. His form helped to guide us into the 2007 semi's, if I recall. Each time, we have only just been beaten, and two of those times by cheating teams. I can't see how we are 'carrying' the bloke when he still contributes to us something that most other clubs envy; a brilliant goal-kicker. If Burt had been played the whole season in the form he did in the first half of the season, we wouldn't be discussing this right now, would we?

And whether or not you are on your own is irrelevant to me too, I accept others opinions, you are just a dim-wit who does nothing but troll these forums looking for an excuse to say crap about one of our club legends.

Sorry old chap, but I think the cards have suitably turned on you. Enjoy your stay.

If I recall correctly, Burt got injured, and then Hayne went in, and then he guided Parramatta to the semi's, playing much better than Burt.
 

boxhead

First Grade
Messages
5,958
If I recall correctly, Burt got injured, and then Hayne went in, and then he guided Parramatta to the semi's, playing much better than Burt.

I might have picked the wrong year, but I am pretty sure when Luke Burt was at fullback in one of the recent years his form largely helped us get into the finals....you may be right it may be one of the other years, my memory isn't all that flash :) Thanks for the tip.
 

mrpwnd

Bench
Messages
2,640
It depends on the perspective I guess, an out of form Hayne is still miles ahead of most of the other fullbacks bar Slater in terms of effectiveness and involvement even when they are all playing at their best, however I guess what I meant is that Boyd was showing better 'form', but Hayne is still the better player of course.
Honestly...Slater is a good fullback, but throw him in NSW and Parra and he'd look like Morts playing at fullback.
Plus Slater is one of the dirtiest grubs in the game, I hate his guts and the boat he and Inglis are likely sharing right now while they refuse salary cap investigations.
But yeah, I get your point, I just hate Boyd and Slater for having most of their achievements on the back of other brilliant individuals as well as having the most undeserved CC medals in history.
 

Eels Dude

Coach
Messages
19,065
If I recall correctly, Burt got injured, and then Hayne went in, and then he guided Parramatta to the semi's, playing much better than Burt.

In fairness to Burt he was outstanding until he got injured in 2007, He was the leading pointscorer in the NRL by a fair margin until his season ending injury in round 17 or so.
 

chanticleer

Juniors
Messages
773
Got caught up in the fairytale run of 10 games... Sorry but Mortimer is not worth 200K, im sure the doggies are relieved

That said there is no reason why Morts couldnt become a good player in a couple more years
 

Eels Dude

Coach
Messages
19,065
Got caught up in the fairytale run of 10 games... Sorry but Mortimer is not worth 200K, im sure the doggies are relieved

That said there is no reason why Morts couldnt become a good player in a couple more years

I dunno about that. KK and Hodgo would be the same.
 

lingard

Coach
Messages
11,439
If I recall correctly, Burt got injured, and then Hayne went in, and then he guided Parramatta to the semi's, playing much better than Burt.


Luke Burt had a great season that year. Hayne came in and the media raved about him, but to be hoest, I think he played about as well as Burt did, but not 'much better.'
 

lingard

Coach
Messages
11,439
Boxhead, boxhead, boxhead. There's a reason why they call you Boxhead you dribbler.

Firstly, Luke Burt was never the form winger of the NRL. Never was & never will be. That's not being biased but is a fact. If he was he would have played Origin or Tests by now. Game over.

Secondly, I bet Twizzle is a nice person but doesn't give him any authority of what is Parramatta or Rugby League because he's a Moderator. If he respected my opinion & didn't shout it down & reply with dribble then I wouldn't call him a Dribbler you Dribbler.

Thirdly, club loyaltly doesn't win you comps mate. I wasn't questioning his loyalty but his football ability you Dribbler.

Finally, i'm anti-Burt because the guy is past it & we will not win a comp with him in the team. I'm sick of carrying the bloke.

Read the post from Gazzamatta & realise i'm not on my own here. He'll keep copping it from me until he's playing for Wenty.

GAME SET MATCH BOXHEAD YOU DRIBBLER


Sefton Boy, Sefton Boy, Sefton Boy. Geez, that`s hard to say fast. Harder than Boxhead, Boxhead, Boxhead. Try it - SeftonBoy, SeftonBoy, Feston Bo..... see, I f**ked up.
Luke Burt is an enigma. There have been times in his career when I just wondered why in the hell he was in first grade. BUT there have been years (like 2007 and 2009) when he was ABSOLUTELY one of the form backs in the comp. Last year, the only reason he didn`t play state of orign was that the selectors considered him too old, and wanted to look to the future - shame really, because I`ve always thought that state of origin (if we must keep this old dinosaur) should be a reward for good form, no matter how old you are. Warren Ryan, who`s opinion I respect, considered Burt last year to be one of the three best wingers in the NRL. This year, Burt`s form dropped alarmingly - but we had the worst halves combination in the NRL and Tahu (who played inside Burt) seldom gave him any quality ball. Let`s wait and see what next year brings.
Notice I didn`t call you a dribbler?











Dribbler.
 
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Joely01

Bench
Messages
4,553
I can see both sides to this.
Burty this year was lets all face it below par (im sure there was some injuries that played part in the reason to this) But as people have mentioned and i want to make clear is the fact that not many players had good years this year... To say Burty needs to be dropped to wenty is a BIG CALL, i dont think an established first grader deserves to be dropped to wenty.. EVER. every single player will have a bad few games or a below par season but i believe that when you stick with a player who is in a rough patch and has made it to first grade and proven himself you get rewards. Same as Morts i think we will see the 2009 type morts back in 2011 he stayed in first grade all year even though his form was down and will have alot more confidence next year after playing through this year, with teams targeting him more in defence, not giving him as much time with the ball etc etc.
To me the team will grow from this year and i think alot of us will get a shock at how well we will go next year.
Cant wait 2011 BRING IT ON!!!
 

Twizzle

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
154,003
Boxhead your comments prove to me that you have no idea. Luke Burt has NEVER been in the mix for Origin.

did the selectors tell you that personally, or is this just your bias opinion ?

that's a rhetorical question btw, I already know the answer
 

Noise

Coach
Messages
18,233
I can see both sides to this.
Burty this year was lets all face it below par (im sure there was some injuries that played part in the reason to this) But as people have mentioned and i want to make clear is the fact that not many players had good years this year... To say Burty needs to be dropped to wenty is a BIG CALL, i dont think an established first grader deserves to be dropped to wenty.. EVER. every single player will have a bad few games or a below par season but i believe that when you stick with a player who is in a rough patch and has made it to first grade and proven himself you get rewards. Same as Morts i think we will see the 2009 type morts back in 2011 he stayed in first grade all year even though his form was down and will have alot more confidence next year after playing through this year, with teams targeting him more in defence, not giving him as much time with the ball etc etc.
To me the team will grow from this year and i think alot of us will get a shock at how well we will go next year.
Cant wait 2011 BRING IT ON!!!

hahaha really? ...no matter how bad their form is, or if there is someone better available you are going to keep them in first grade???

So you think all players who have established themselves in 1st grade should stay there until they retire regardless of form, better players coming through, poor behaviour/attitude??? Wow
 

Joely01

Bench
Messages
4,553
hahaha really? ...no matter how bad their form is, or if there is someone better available you are going to keep them in first grade???

So you think all players who have established themselves in 1st grade should stay there until they retire regardless of form, better players coming through, poor behaviour/attitude??? Wow
On bad from no, they shouldnt get dropper.
On poor behaviour or attitude then yes they should.
But people were saying that he needs to be dropped because of form i believe you are there in the team for a reason and have proven yourself before and everyone goes through a rough patch.
But if its due to behaviour or attitude yes dump them
 

SeftonBoy

Juniors
Messages
306
Mr Twizzle - It's not my bias opinion it's a fact. There has & always been better options for Origin. Let's please be realistic here & take of the blue & gold goggles for once. He's not an Origin player & that reflects in the fact that he's never been picked. You can't argue with that.

Parramatta had a very poor 2010 & the coach got sacked. A few more of the players should have went with him including Burt who had a very poor 2010. The guy is past it & i'd rather go with a young guy on the rise with potential. He's had his turn, time to give a young guy a shot.

We'll just have to wait & see what happens with Kearney's selections but I suggest if he dishes up the same rubbish again next year Burty boy will be in the Black & White.

Joely01-No player is exempy from being dropped.
 

Twizzle

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
154,003
I thought the argument was whether he was in the mix for origin selection.

You're moving the goal posts to suit your so called non bias argument.
 

SeftonBoy

Juniors
Messages
306
He's realistically never been in the mix either. My point is he was never going to get picked & subsequently didn't.

That's OK you're obviously satisfied with mediocrity.
 

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