Knights fans, where are you?

[Serc]

For years I have sat in empty stadiums watching as the crowd piled in to watch first grade and catch the last five minutes of PL.

That is exactly what happens up here in SEQ.

I like to think we're at a point where we're turning around a number of things...the team (going well this year so far)...the stadium (its gonna be pretty damn nice when its finished)...the club (Burro & co slowly getting things into shape + whatever privatisation options are on the cards). But most importantly I think it will be a long process as Jobby says.

 

[Karmawave]

Foxtel, no doubt about it. Its the main problem here. Back in the days when we would draw 22k + to every game, 90% of our games werent broadcast at all on TV. Now you get them all live, and we are lazy people.

I think there's been some great points bought up in this thread, and some great thought gone into it, but what I can't really cop is the Foxtel excuse.

How exactly can Foxtel be to blame for poor crowds when Foxtel existed in 2008, with just as many games broadcast on it, yet the Knights had an attendance of over 21,000 go to the games on more than one occasion in 2008?

If 21-22K can go to the Knights games in 2008 with Foxtel showing just as many live games as they are in 2009, then Foxtel surely cannot be used as an excuse when 13,000-15,000 people turn up this season?

 

[Serc]

People tightening their belts...Foxtel is a perfect option if you're looking to do that. Thats where things have changed since 2008 I reckon.

 

[Karmawave]

Mr Tingle is a passionate Knights fan to boot...
Spell it out for me people!!!

Ok its Tinkler. T-I-N-K-L-E-R.

How's that? ;-)

 

[Serc]

LOL Tingle... I didn't see that before! HAHA

Sorry for my juvenile response

 

[Karmawave]

People tightening their belts...Foxtel is a perfect option if you're looking to do that. Thats where things have changed since 2008 I reckon.

Well I dunno about everyone else, but having Foxtel on the Platinum package costs over $100 a month. It's not what most people would term 'cheap'.

I'm sure the basic package is more like 50-60 bucks a month, but remember, most people are in a contract for 12months + so its a longer term commitment way beyond just the football season.

Still looking at 500-600 bucks a year to have Foxtel at the very minimum.

I just can't see it as a feasible excuse when everyone had Foxtel in 2008 as well and we had 21,000 Knights fans at EAS supporting them.

That's saying that the missing 8,000 people last week have suddenly subscribed to Foxtel and won't attend games because its live in TV?

I don't think so.

It was live on TV last year too when 21,000 rocked up.

 

[PrideKnight]

I think there's been some great points bought up in this thread, and some great thought gone into it, but what I can't really cop is the Foxtel excuse.

How exactly can Foxtel be to blame for poor crowds when Foxtel existed in 2008, with just as many games broadcast on it, yet the Knights had an attendance of over 21,000 go to the games on more than one occasion in 2008?

If 21-22K can go to the Knights games in 2008 with Foxtel showing just as many live games as they are in 2009, then Foxtel surely cannot be used as an excuse when 13,000-15,000 people turn up this season?

Foxtel is considered to be the more affordable option, especially when you consider their recent advertising campaigns have focussed exactly on this "For the same price as one outing for my family per month, we can have foxtel in every room and become sedentary lazy american stereotypes" OK, so I may have taken some liberties with their campaign, but its along the lines of what it has been.

Don't get me wrong, I love my foxtel, and still record the game to come home and re-watch in comfort.

I think the flip side of the coin is that it's Foxtel's (or more correctly the weak NRL) fault we have monday and two friday games, both of which impact the ability of any fan outside the area a game is being played from attending...

 

[Baron Vo Mandor]

Well I dunno about everyone else, but having Foxtel on the Platinum package costs over $100 a month. It's not what most people would term 'cheap'.

I'm sure the basic package is more like 50-60 bucks a month, but remember, most people are in a contract for 12months + so its a longer term commitment way beyond just the football season.

Still looking at 500-600 bucks a year to have Foxtel at the very minimum.

I just can't see it as a feasible excuse when everyone had Foxtel in 2008 as well and we had 21,000 Knights fans at EAS supporting them.

That's saying that the missing 8,000 people last week have suddenly subscribed to Foxtel and won't attend games because its live in TV?

I don't think so.

It was live on TV last year too when 21,000 rocked up.

I do on the basic package which most league fans have at work, it works out to be about 52 a month.

Have two people watching it and its less then two decent tickets to the footy....... Pretty bloody simple really karma.

And at a lot of workplaces I know six mates without trying who's overtime has dried up. Most companies are looking to axe it all together and without the extra buffer zone a lot of people unfortunately have to cut out luxuries.

Even on the platinum package it works out to be wwwwwwwaaaaayyyyy cheaper and with the economy people are going to look to maximise their entertainment $$$.

 

[Serc]

I was moreso talking about the economy and unemployment when comparing to 2008, not so much Foxtel, but it is certainly worth mentioning as an option. I wonder how many people in Newcastle are doing that?

 

[macavity]

the thing we are all missing is that a hell of a lot of people from the western stand simply chose not to renew. getting on a bit, bones starting to chill at night games, and decided that losing their western stand seat for a year was the opportunity for them to break their 20year support habit.

those are the people (around 2,000 of them) sitting at home watching fox instead of coming to the games. add those 2,000 in each week so far and we are disappointed with crowds, but we aren't having this conversation through the herald.

hell, I had to work to convince my old man to renew his season ticket - and he is a foundation member, same seat since 1988...

 

[Karmawave]

Well on top of this ' crowd ' debate, how does the following fit into the scheme of things?


The Knights are 5 sponsors short with the player sponsors this season. The ' player sponsors ' are the businesses whose logo come up alongside the players when the teams are named and are advertised by the announcer during the game. ' Kurt Gidley proudly sponsored by... '

The sponsors don't select what players they sponsor, they are randomly drawn out of a hat at the start of the season. In 2009 , we only have 12 of a possibly 17 sponsors.


It's the first year for a long time that the Knights were unable to fill out the full 17 players. I realise the Knights have the most sponsorship of any other team, but we also need it more than any other team, and the reality is, we are 5 sponsors short in an area which was never short before.

You'll notice that as of last week, the lock position and all interchange positions come up with just the Knights logo on the big screen, and have no business sponsoring them.

Maybe this is considered a small issue, but I think its directly relatable to the same reasons we are not pulling the crowds we should be.

In my opinion, that reason is general disinterest in this team combined with some pretty tough financial times and fans not feeling they are getting value for money.

Exactly the same with the sponsors.

 

[voltron]

but don't bring the broncos fans...

hahaha
i would love to sit with you guys
next time! when i just bring my knights buddies!!

 

[strewth_mate]

I don't want this to take away from the awesome work of the Crusade over the past few years and it's certainly not an attack on them - I think every team needs supporters groups... but I think a part of the lack of atmosphere comes with the change in 'concentration' of passionate fans around the stadium.

With all of the most passionate and loud fans in the one bay, sure there's plenty of atmosphere right there in that spot... but what that does it saps all the energy from the rest of the ground where these loud and passionate people would previously have randomly sat. We're talking people who are capable of starting the NEW CAS TLE chant and the like. They're all in one bay at the southern end, what do the people up the other end or on the other side of the stadium care? Those people being in different spots around the park, that was what got it.

Was about to make this exact point.

It seems to me that the loss of atmosphere is largely due to the development of the ground. Lack of household names and a period of poor form contribute, of course, but even if we were coming dead last with a team of nuffies I still reckon the noise from a crowd of 11,000 six years ago would be higher than that coming out of 22,000 in the stadium today.

Unfortunately it's always been the case that you can hear a pin drop a few tackles after kickoff, it seems to be the nature of our crowds. But what we're lacking in recent times is the roll-on effect from the chanting initiated throughout the game. There was good noise on Sunday at critical times, and a lot of it coming from the Crusade's bay. Unfortunately though it doesn't seem to spur the rest on like it used to - perhaps people feel a bit more isolated from the mob, instead of getting excited sitting in a sea of chants.

While it might be a controversial question - and I mean this to be in no way critical of the fantastic job the Crusade do in the face of silent adversity - is Bay 2 the best place for a supporter's group? I remember the group massing in the south-east corner before the Andrew Johns Stand went up, and they were clearly visible and audible. The relative location hasn't really changed, but sometimes it seems like the grandstand has swallowed the group, tucked them away and dulled the voices somewhat.

I understand there's obvious reasons for the location, particularly the generous offer from the Knights to reserve the bay, however I sometimes can't help but think that location is a hindrance. Sometimes the Knights fans are out-chanted by opposition groups on the south hill - and sometimes they might not even be louder, it's just that their presence is more obvious. Would a supporter's group be more effective in the middle of the Eastern stand, or even going back to the hill?

Point of the rant being - while all the factors (Foxtel, form, prices, no more Rudder) contribute to smaller crowds, it's still a concern that those who do show up are stifled. And if people are unimpressed by the atmosphere on game day, they might just figure it's not worth tolerating what they used to and turn to Foxtel instead. Dunno.

 

[Karmawave]

Well I go to the game to ensure I don't see Brian Smith in one of his cringe worthy interviews ON FOXTEL before the game because he gives me the sh*ts.

So count me as one who goes to the game because of Foxtel. I figure it'll still be there when I get home but Brian Smith won't be on TV anymore because something else is on by then.

 

[macavity]

While it might be a controversial question - and I mean this to be in no way critical of the fantastic job the Crusade do in the face of silent adversity - is Bay 2 the best place for a supporter's group? I remember the group massing in the south-east corner before the Andrew Johns Stand went up, and they were clearly visible and audible. The relative location hasn't really changed, but sometimes it seems like the grandstand has swallowed the group, tucked them away and dulled the voices somewhat.

I understand there's obvious reasons for the location, particularly the generous offer from the Knights to reserve the bay, however I sometimes can't help but think that location is a hindrance. Sometimes the Knights fans are out-chanted by opposition groups on the south hill - and sometimes they might not even be louder, it's just that their presence is more obvious. Would a supporter's group be more effective in the middle of the Eastern stand, or even going back to the hill?

mate good question and one we can't answer. the club have asked us to stay at the back of the bay. I would suggest if we were at the front, or even half way down, we would be alot more prominent.

being up the back and out of the weather has its benefits, but it is a discussion we are going to have to have - hopefully a large portion of the stand is GA next year which will help us no end - then we will be somewhere more prominent.

 

[PrideKnight]

Was about to make this exact point.

It seems to me that the loss of atmosphere is largely due to the development of the ground. Lack of household names and a period of poor form contribute, of course, but even if we were coming dead last with a team of nuffies I still reckon the noise from a crowd of 11,000 six years ago would be higher than that coming out of 22,000 in the stadium today.

Unfortunately it's always been the case that you can hear a pin drop a few tackles after kickoff, it seems to be the nature of our crowds. But what we're lacking in recent times is the roll-on effect from the chanting initiated throughout the game. There was good noise on Sunday at critical times, and a lot of it coming from the Crusade's bay. Unfortunately though it doesn't seem to spur the rest on like it used to - perhaps people feel a bit more isolated from the mob, instead of getting excited sitting in a sea of chants.

While it might be a controversial question - and I mean this to be in no way critical of the fantastic job the Crusade do in the face of silent adversity - is Bay 2 the best place for a supporter's group? I remember the group massing in the south-east corner before the Andrew Johns Stand went up, and they were clearly visible and audible. The relative location hasn't really changed, but sometimes it seems like the grandstand has swallowed the group, tucked them away and dulled the voices somewhat.

I understand there's obvious reasons for the location, particularly the generous offer from the Knights to reserve the bay, however I sometimes can't help but think that location is a hindrance. Sometimes the Knights fans are out-chanted by opposition groups on the south hill - and sometimes they might not even be louder, it's just that their presence is more obvious. Would a supporter's group be more effective in the middle of the Eastern stand, or even going back to the hill?

Point of the rant being - while all the factors (Foxtel, form, prices, no more Rudder) contribute to smaller crowds, it's still a concern that those who do show up are stifled. And if people are unimpressed by the atmosphere on game day, they might just figure it's not worth tolerating what they used to and turn to Foxtel instead. Dunno.

Excellent point Strewth, and definitely something I have considered and discussed numerous times. I personally feel that where we are, we get swallowed up, both visually and acoustically, people can hear us directly above us, and along the eastern stand for some distance, but it seems like our sound can't get out from under the concrete.

A couple of times it has been suggested that we go back to the hill or something else, but unfortunately, if we go to the hill we get harrassed for "taking it over" where as in the non GA stand, we are protected from that. One thing I did say to some of the other crusaders on the weekend though, on days like last sunday, where our bay was completely empty down the front, I think we should utilise that space, just move ourselves down there and make some noise from there....

 

[Karmawave]

I'm waiting for the Crusade to romp onto the field with pom poms like the Knights Nannas.

Surely you aren't going to let the old ducks show you up!

 

[PrideKnight]

I'm waiting for the Crusade to romp onto the field with pom poms like the Knights Nannas.

Surely you aren't going to let the old ducks show you up!

I thought about it, but I don't look very good in a onesie (not that nanna's do either) Macca is in the same boat as me...

 

[macavity]

Ive been to the first 2 home games both with my children & without had GR8 seats in the eastern Stand & enjoyed th games thoroughly. The only objection I have is the Wankers up in the corner of the stand bangin drums & blowing trumpets. Obviously soccer fans. Stick with th Jets & take your instuments & chants with u!

http://www.theherald.com.au/news/lo...er-to-absent-knights-fans/1486519.aspx?page=5

thought you guys would appreciate this...

 

[Timmah]

Flamin strewth, you took my point :x :lol:

Nah, well said mate - perhaps a location change would be ideal? Dunno.