Knights V. Manly Post match discussion...

[Whats Doing]

The boys really put in for the entire 80 mins.

As everybody says, the ref had a shocker and all the calls went Manly's way particular the off side penalties. Where were the knights penalties for the very same infringements they were penalised for.

Any way we need to look for areas of improvements.

Hagan - What the hell is he thinking during the game when he uses up all his interchanges with 12 minutes to play. He needs to keep fresh reserves up his sleeves.

Thaiday - He is not the same player since he has come back. He lacks confidence under the high ball and let in 2 soft tries. He also makes poor decisions when under pressure. The fullback should also not be the first defender from the scrum. That went out years ago but then again Hages the coach.

Execution in attack after 30 minutes seems to go off the boil. This needs tpo be corrected.

Anyway, the boys should be proud of their efforts. The fans are.

 

[CJKnight]

Our lack of quality forwards was our downfall... Without big props coming off the bench Reynoldson and Simpson looked out of place. While Perry and Woolnough had simply to much workload.

But Goalkicking was the only difference IMO... Newcastle held in there against a much bigger pack... we even inflicted some injury on them. Kidley's lack of a supportive kicking game was disappointing.

Thiaday had a blinder... he is unlucky not to score over the past 3 weeks. Played almost a 5/8 role with Joey in attack last night.

 

[Medievalknight]

Thiaday had a blinder... he is unlucky not to score over the past 3 weeks. Played almost a 5/8 role with Joey in attack last night.

Someone had to.............as usual kidley stifled our attack whenever he got the f**king ball :sarcasm: ...........for god sake lets hope supercoach realises and brings either Mullen(first preference), Bailey or even Riley Brown (fantastic game playing half back in reggies) back into the starting lineup next week.

 

[Serc]

Well...its time to post some thoughts now that I've cooled down.

The positives:

How good was the defence - Manly did play very well in attack and I suspect a lot of the ways that they shut their attack down in Brooky earlier in the year worked here as well.

The forwards stepping up - how good were just about all the forwards, particularly the props. Well done. I was seriously worried before the match that we would get owned up front (well we sort of were but not as much as I feared). I even saw one great hit from Tanner in defence when i thought Manly were going to score in the middle of the field (about 1/3 of the way through the 2nd half i think) Reyno made 109 metres with only 23 tackles...shows you how effective he was on the field for the short time he was on there.

Speaking of stepping up - there were some sets in the 2nd half where Carney & Quinn took the ball up and made a lot of metres to take the burden off the forwards. Quinn made 184m and Carney made 158m, very well done.

The game overall - thanks to both the teams for putting on a great show, I haven't been as excited about a footy game since the Cowboys match earlier in the year. Thanks again

Great to see the Crusade complete with banner on the TV *again*!!!

The negatives:

Tanner in 2nd-row to start? WTF? Knew Kidley would start at 5/8 as soon as the team was announced on Tuesday (and Mullen was later ruled out)

Silly penalties and (i think) dropped ball a few times let Manly out of jail a few too many times. Most of these were perfectly timed when we had them right under the hammer!!! Either that or we gave then an extra set of 6 at the other end of the field.

Soft tries - the first 2 tries by Manly should not have been scored. PARTICULARLY the 2nd one...terrible defence from the scrum.

Thaiday's hot and coldness...more cold than hot last night. Hopefully he gets some of the basics right (eg: useless shoulder charge on 1st Manly try) by finals time because he definitely will still be wearing the #1 jumper by then.

Kidley...even giving him a bit of leeway after coming back from injury he was not that good at all. Attack looked rather lame when the ball came to him (as always), and yes, I got the feeling that things looked better when Bailey was on the field even though he was on there for about 10 seconds :roll:

Bombed tries - wow too many of those, its rare to see so many tries thrown away by the right hand side (Gidley/Thaiday/Carney etc) but it did happen tonight. Could've scored 2-3 more down there.

The reffing:

I believe the first try to Manly off the 'bounce' pass was fair and legal. In the interests of consistency however it should've been a knock on. I have seen NUMEROUS knock-on's called with the ball going at that angle throughout this year. Ultimately I don't care what the ref's decide as long as its the same for everyone. Inconsistency pisses me off more than slightly incorrect calls - as it is a very subjective game at times.

A number of bad general calls in play were pretty average, eg the Buderus 'forward pass' which if played at real speed and allowing for the players movement was rather line ball if you ask me. Then Simpkins backed it up by missing a number of forward passes from BOTH teams (about 2-3 each) which all were more forward than Buderus' one.

Not saying anything more about the last call - worse than anything I saw in SOO3 even though that (overall) was the most disgusting display of reffing I have ever seen. This was probably the worst single decision I have ever seen.

Oh and last comment - its a shame that Johns missed the first two conversions Would've been nice to see him get at least one of them so we could get the golden point that we deserved *at the very least*.

 

[thuganomics]

It still makes me wonder why the hell Thaiday attempted a shoulder charge on Hicks that leaded to Bells try.

It was a shocking play and one that didn't need to be taken.

 

[General Knight]

I don't mind having Simpson at prop but having Tanner as his replacement in the secondrow when there was other better options is an absolute joke.

 

[antonius]

I'm as disapointed as everyone else with the loss but we could have won it long before that abysmal decision at the end. Thaiday had a shocker, what was he thinking trying a shoulder charge for their first try, a conventional tackle would've done the job. He was letting high balls bounce, deadset he was heart attack material, don't know what's happened with him but he's not the same player. Hagan needs shooting for starting Kidley at 5/8th, he had a shocker as well, it left us with one kicking option (Johns) and Manly knew it, Johns had a very ineffectual kicking game, he also threw two intercept passes, and a hospital pass that saw the reciever absolutely creamed. Last week with Bailey, and in previous weeks with Mullen we had a couple of good options for the last tackle, not last night. Why Hagan even selected Bailey is a mystery considering the time he got on field. Orfords try is down to Kidley (Where the hell was he from that scrum? that was his side and he was nowhere to be seen.. Midley bombed a certain try when he went for the glory kick 12 meteres out, Carney was unmarked outside him and only had the fullback to beat on the line, I reckon Carney would've scored. Great games by Wooly and Perry, I thought Tanner went much better than normal, and Abes tackled everything that moved while he was out there. Like I said we should've had it wrapped up long before the farce on fulltime, we were our own worst enemies last night. I still think we make 5th spot though.

 

[~Z~]

It still makes me wonder why the hell Thaiday attempted a shoulder charge on Hicks that leaded to Bells try.

It was a shocking play and one that didn't need to be taken.

exactly. It cost us a try, and thaiday should have know better. A simple tackle would have at the very least slowed momentum, I just dont understand why anyone would do that. Maby near the side line, but 10 meters out near the centre of the ground ?

 

[Johns Magic]

Orfords try is down to Kidley (Where the hell was he from that scrum? that was his side and he was nowhere to be seen...

Oh please.

Kidley was at lock there because Newton was in the backline. Thaiday missed a simple tackle. Give him a break.

 

[The Devil]

I'm as disapointed as everyone else with the loss but we could have won it long before that abysmal decision at the end. Thaiday had a shocker, what was he thinking trying a shoulder charge for their first try, a conventional tackle would've done the job. He was letting high balls bounce, deadset he was heart attack material, don't know what's happened with him but he's not the same player. Hagan needs shooting for starting Kidley at 5/8th, he had a shocker as well, it left us with one kicking option (Johns) and Manly knew it, Johns had a very ineffectual kicking game, he also threw two intercept passes, and a hospital pass that saw the reciever absolutely creamed. Last week with Bailey, and in previous weeks with Mullen we had a couple of good options for the last tackle, not last night. Why Hagan even selected Bailey is a mystery considering the time he got on field. Orfords try is down to Kidley (Where the hell was he from that scrum? that was his side and he was nowhere to be seen.. Midley bombed a certain try when he went for the glory kick 12 meteres out, Carney was unmarked outside him and only had the fullback to beat on the line, I reckon Carney would've scored. Great games by Wooly and Perry, I thought Tanner went much better than normal, and Abes tackled everything that moved while he was out there. Like I said we should've had it wrapped up long before the farce on fulltime, we were our own worst enemies last night. I still think we make 5th spot though.

To be perfectly fair, it was a three on 2 situation there and Carney was no certainty to score. From what i remember it was:



Manly Defender Manly Defender Manly Defender


Gidley Carney

I thought he bombed a perfect try as well when i was watching it on tv, but when they showed it from another angle you could see the 3 on 2 and both the Manly defender and Carney were on the sideline.

NB My diagram should be in a staggered line but it doesnt seem to want to do that.

how funny was it when thaiday was through, midley following. then he tried to pass, midley knocks on. thaiday doesnt know, tries to run out of the way, but the ball kept following him in arc. i had such a good laugh, some of the funnies sh*t i have ever seen

With that decision i actually thought that thaiday had passed it into the Manly player's arm, propelling it toward Midley and bounced off him and went forward, which would have been Manly knock-on, our scrum feed.

 

[Jobdog]

I've had a little bit of time to cool down, but I'm still filthy about that last decision to not call a blatant knock on by Matai. Sure, you can't say it cost us the game, however, it cost us one last opportunity to see what we could conjure up. Cecchin has always been a complete fvrking merkin, there's no doubt about it. Joey just said what everyone else knows. Sometimes the truth hurts, doesn't it?

On the game, there could be a case for us beating ourselves, I think there was a period of about ten minutes where we didn't complete a set by throwing stupid passes. Manly's first try IMO was a complete joke too, the ball went straight DOWN, which under my understanding constitues a knock on.

Again, we played fairly well for about 50 minutes,the defence as a whole was improved and provided Joey doesn't get suspended, we probably should take care of the Cowboys next week.

 

[Jono078]

I've had a little bit of time to cool down, but I'm still filthy about that last decision to not call a blatant knock on by Matai. Sure, you can't say it cost us the game, however, it cost us one last opportunity to see what we could conjure up. Cecchin has always been a complete fvrking merkin, there's no doubt about it. Joey just said what everyone else knows. Sometimes the truth hurts, doesn't it?

On the game, there could be a case for us beating ourselves, I think there was a period of about ten minutes where we didn't complete a set by throwing stupid passes. Manly's first try IMO was a complete joke too, the ball went straight DOWN, which under my understanding constitues a knock on.

Again, we played fairly well for about 50 minutes,the defence as a whole was improved and provided Joey doesn't get suspended, we probably should take care of the Cowboys next week.

Yeah exactly, you see week in week out balls like that being called knock ons.

Still dissapointed over the loss, I just dont know if we can improve in time for the finals..

 

[antonius]

Oh please.

Kidley was at lock there because Newton was in the backline. Thaiday missed a simple tackle. Give him a break.

Well I have to say I didn't see Kidley at lock in that scrum. I'll stick by my thought that Bailey would've been a better option at 5/8th, Kidley is bloody useless there, and he wont be getting any breaks from me while ever he contnues to be the first pick there despite his inept displays in the position. Last night was another example in a long list of examples that he simply doesn't have it as a half, and after the amount of time spent on him, he never will have it.

 

[Ben]

Kidley wasn't at lock. It was certainly Newton because he fixed up his bleeding nose and got straight back in to lock the scrum. As a matter of fact i didn't even see Kidley at all and i wouldn't have been surprised if he was defending on the blind side.

I think the first try was a legitimate try because the ball did seem to go backwards off his hands and then bounce forward. But i have seen many of those passes been given as no-tries this year and another video-ref could've awarded a no try.

I don't think Manly played as well as many are giving them credit for. Sure they beat us but their attacking raids were no-where near as dangerous as ours. Basically all their tries and all their opportunities came off kicks because our defensive line was extremely rock solid. Great to see some enthusiasm back into the defensive line with a heap of players racing off the line to put some big hits on.

They didn't get around us and their backrow were no-where to be seen in attack. I think we shut down BK and Menzies very well. Travis Burns was the only player from the Eagles that really stood out. Even Stewart was a bit quiet. We were consistenly posing a threat on both flanks. In the first half we worked some really good short side plays down Quinn's wing and in the second half Gidley and Thaiday were getting through but just couldn't find the finishing touches.

I was wondering for anyone who was at the game. When Manly had three consecutive sets of six on our line was Andrew Johns really off-side or was Simpkins just blind as usual? Because from TV it actually looked like what he did was perfectly fine.

Thaiday was again very up and down. He really needs to regain some of his confidence because he doesn't seems to get as involved as much as he did at the start of the season. But then again, an ankle injury is extremely hard to get back from so that could be the reason. And he also seems to be reaching down feeling his ankle out a lot when he got hit heavily so that means that he may not be 100%.

Regarding the attempted tackle on Hicks I think all he needs to do is get his tackling technique right. He seems to always hit with his shoulder when sometimes it is probably safer not to try the big play. But sometimes he pulls it off and it looks spectacular. Ie. Jason Ryles.

 

[northey]

I am happy that we can actually play in the 2nd half.

Thaiday could have done with maybe an extra week in PL and then back into FG. I know people are saying he is shocking etc and others are saying give him time. It is not practical to say give him time at this stage in the season.

Poor Kidley looked like he had no idea what he was doing all game. But he will be better next week, remember he didn't get to have a week in PL before coming back to FG.

Really impressed that Wooly and Perry are having great games. Perry has turned his season around. Perry made 36 tackles, got a try, had a line break. Wooly ran 180m and made 28 tackles.

 

[Burwood]

I am happy that we can actually play in the 2nd half.

I thought that our defensive effort in the 2nd half was tremendous. I also loved the way that every player stepped up one or two gears after Manly's try in the 76th minute. Our guys had every right to be buggered and just play out the rest of the match, but instead they didn't feel sorry for themselves and took the game right back to Manly- they had so much energy and enthusiasm that it makes you wonder where it was for the rest of the season so far.

Thaiday could have done with maybe an extra week in PL and then back into FG. I know people are saying he is shocking etc and others are saying give him time. It is not practical to say give him time at this stage in the season.

It was a risky move bringing Thaiday back against the Storm. A week in Premier League and then a return match against the Rabbitohs might have done him some good.

Poor Kidley looked like he had no idea what he was doing all game. But he will be better next week, remember he didn't get to have a week in PL before coming back to FG.

It's been easy for everyone to get stuck into Kidley, but at the same time he did everything possible. I really can't understand the logic behind Hagan rushing Kidley back not only into the team, but into the actual run-on side. Bailey was the perfect option to play 5/8th and either give Kidley a week in Premier League or at least some time on the bench in the opening exchanges to allow him to ease himself into the match. It's no wonder that the Manly forwards spent all night running at him.

Really impressed that Wooly and Perry are having great games. Perry has turned his season around. Perry made 36 tackles, got a try, had a line break. Wooly ran 180m and made 28 tackles.

Where have these two been all season?!? It's like something has clicked inside them the last 3 or 4 weeks and they are now getting better and better each week! Who at the start of this season would have thought that these two were capable of consistently getting nearly 20 hit ups each. Let's hope they can keep it up for the next 5 or so games.

 

[Whats Doing]

Kidley wasn't at lock. It was certainly Newton because he fixed up his bleeding nose and got straight back in to lock the scrum. As a matter of fact i didn't even see Kidley at all and i wouldn't have been surprised if he was defending on the blind side.

Newton was lock, Thaiday was in the first defenders position and Kidley was in the second defenders position. As I have said previously, fullbacks generally do not defend in the 1st defenders position these days and particular when they are not that big.

If Newton was in the locks position because he was the last man there, then the coach needs to ensure that this never happens again. The locks role in such a vital position on the field is paramount - not just who ever wants to do it. One slip up at this end of the field (which happened) and its try time. There is no space to recover.

 

[stevo]

Like most of you i don't know what the hell Thaiday was thinking with that charge.

i just hope Johns is right for the Cows game.

 

[CycloneSteve]

Geeez we could be as low as 7th after this week if St George and the Broncs win

 

[Big Tim]

Yeah exactly, you see week in week out balls like that being called knock ons.

Still dissapointed over the loss, I just dont know if we can improve in time for the finals..

I was at the ground and the only reason I could see for them giving that try is that the video ref ruled he was passing the ball. With the forward pass/video ref rule he could have "thrown" it 10m forward. Disappointed in that decision.

I thought the forwards stood up considering we were without 2 of our older heads. Thought Quinn played well.

Couldnt understand why we kept attacking the right edge. After we went there all night, the defenders on the other side of the field just drifted across. 2 cutout balls would have seen Carmont on the outside of his man.

I saw what Carney said to Matty after the game.
MJ: "What happened at the end there?"
BC: "He played at it didnt he? We were trying to tell the touchie, but he has a bee in his bonnet about something else and wouldnt listen to us"

If the players think the touchie has an issue with them, how can they play the game not wondering if the officials are gonna call it against them.

Sack Simpkins and Cecchin.