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Kurt Mann @ 5/8

The Damo

Juniors
Messages
1,991
Is there a stat which records centres getting dragged into touch in there own 20 on the 1st tackle which then leads to an immediate try? Because I seem to recall that happening to Lafai on more than a few occasions. Or maybe I have created that in my head, dunno......
Sorry I don’t think there is :)
Interestingly (to me anyway) there is an extremely common flaw in how all our memories work. Things that produce a strong emotional reaction, things that conform to our already held ideas get bunched together and exaggerated both in number and in the particular features that both annoy us and that match with what we think. I’m not saying this is definitely the case here - was it the Eels game that happened in? In a team that had an utterly dreadful game, he was one of the worst that day no doubt. Even in 2016 when he had a shithouse year I don’t think he ever turned in a game that bad.
But I’d be willing to bet that if you could go and find all the instances that you’re remembering they’d both be fewer in number than your memory tells you, and not quite fit the criteria you describe. This goes both ways - because I think Lafai is a good player I’m more likely to notice, exaggerate, and remember and bunch together the things I think he does well and I enjoy seeing.

Lafai could certainly stand to make less errors, he’s in the top 20 for average errors at centre. And his worst tendency is a lack of ongoing intensity to stay involved if play goes past him which shits me too.
 

possm

Coach
Messages
16,022
I still cant believe kurt man re signed to stay with us.
I dont think he will be around after his contract expires.
If I were Kurt I would be filthy with our club.
Used and abused. 4 years down the drain

Really, I'd say that Mann is happy and has increased his worth by staying on with the Dragons. For me he is a good centre and as such would pair nicely with Roberts under Bennett as coach. In my opinion, Mann has not shown enough in his kicking game to hold the 6 jumber at most clubs.
 

st penguin

Juniors
Messages
293
Mary is a better painter than this kid:

living-room-ideas-with-kids-kids-paint-living-room-ideas-cath-kidston-living-room-ideas.jpg

Mary is much better at whitewashing things.
 

monsterkev

Juniors
Messages
477
I still love the way people are saying Mann can’t kick or there’s something he’s not doing
Well don’t blame it on Mann as he can kick but instead blame it on the coach
Never plays in one position long enough to satisfy everyone that he is a good player
I reckon he has only played 2 or 3 bad games since joining the dragons now compare that to
Lafai,aitken,Widdop,hunt,nene
What does this guy have to do to get a starting position
 

possm

Coach
Messages
16,022
I still love the way people are saying Mann can’t kick or there’s something he’s not doing
Well don’t blame it on Mann as he can kick but instead blame it on the coach
Never plays in one position long enough to satisfy everyone that he is a good player
I reckon he has only played 2 or 3 bad games since joining the dragons now compare that to
Lafai,aitken,Widdop,hunt,nene
What does this guy have to do to get a starting position
Please don't get me wrong, with Widdop out of action, Mann is the Club's best option at 6 and Mann is a better centre than Aitken and Lafai. It could be Mary instructing McInnes to always pass to Hunt for kicks.

When he first came to the Club, McInnes showed he had a good kick from dummy half however, after a couple went astray - no more kicks from McInnes.
 

hazzbeen

Bench
Messages
4,617
I still love the way people are saying Mann can’t kick or there’s something he’s not doing
Well don’t blame it on Mann as he can kick but instead blame it on the coach
Never plays in one position long enough to satisfy everyone that he is a good player
I reckon he has only played 2 or 3 bad games since joining the dragons now compare that to
Lafai,aitken,Widdop,hunt,nene
What does this guy have to do to get a starting position
Kev the only way he will get a starting position is to leave and go to another club . He will get a chance because he will be snapped up by someone .....
 

BLM01

Coach
Messages
10,000
Please don't get me wrong, with Widdop out of action, Mann is the Club's best option at 6 and Mann is a better centre than Aitken and Lafai. It could be Mary instructing McInnes to always pass to Hunt for kicks.

When he first came to the Club, McInnes showed he had a good kick from dummy half however, after a couple went astray - no more kicks from McInnes.
Except for the poor option kick on the 4th or 5th on the Tigers goal lline that went straight in to the arms of someone, we were up 14-6 at that time and that changed our momentum as we had numbers out wide and would of scored..luckily Tigers changed it back.
 

giboz71

First Grade
Messages
9,741
I’m still curious to see which clubs would snap Mann up as a regular starter?

Surely if that were the case, he would have signed with them before signing his new contract with us, after Widdop, Hunt, Lafai and Aitken signed long term deals. Where did he think he was going to play?

If the guy had options, he would have taken them. I just don’t think he had that many. Having said that, I still rate him highly and would have him above Lafai or Aitken.
 

LINESPEED

Juniors
Messages
1,551
Mary contemplating a change in the centres

image.jpg
Please don't get me wrong, with Widdop out of action, Mann is the Club's best option at 6 and Mann is a better centre than Aitken and Lafai. It could be Mary instructing McInnes to always pass to Hunt for kicks.

When he first came to the Club, McInnes showed he had a good kick from dummy half however, after a couple went astray - no more kicks from McInnes.
Conservatism & anal retentiveness are the great stiflers of creativity & skill development??
 
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Old Timer

Coach
Messages
18,140
Sorry I don’t think there is :)
Interestingly (to me anyway) there is an extremely common flaw in how all our memories work. Things that produce a strong emotional reaction, things that conform to our already held ideas get bunched together and exaggerated both in number and in the particular features that both annoy us and that match with what we think. I’m not saying this is definitely the case here - was it the Eels game that happened in? In a team that had an utterly dreadful game, he was one of the worst that day no doubt. Even in 2016 when he had a shithouse year I don’t think he ever turned in a game that bad.
But I’d be willing to bet that if you could go and find all the instances that you’re remembering they’d both be fewer in number than your memory tells you, and not quite fit the criteria you describe. This goes both ways - because I think Lafai is a good player I’m more likely to notice, exaggerate, and remember and bunch together the things I think he does well and I enjoy seeing.

Lafai could certainly stand to make less errors, he’s in the top 20 for average errors at centre. And his worst tendency is a lack of ongoing intensity to stay involved if play goes past him which shits me too.
I like the intent of this thread rather than just quoting statistics.
When statistics are offered to compare players I often think that is somewhat unfair as it diminishes the logic / reasoning why we actually signed the player in the 1st place.
Whilst not positive it would seem logical that signings are not based on statistics but more from observation of players in games.
Those observations would then indicate what skills, attributes the player has and would bring to the team and then weighed up against the deficiencies he has and that would form the logic behind the signing.
When defending a player against arguments that he is under performing etc IMO it is somewhat flawed to use the statistics of other players to justify why he is so called "going all right", as in fact we didn't sign the player on that basis, we signed him because we liked what we saw of him and therefore it would IMO be more relevant to compare the player against his own stats .
It is fair to say I took some poetic licence in my reference to Lafai & his off loads by saying non existent.
However using the comparison to others (who may also be under performing) to illustrate that he is doing well (yes I understand the value of statistics and the analysis thereof) but to ignore the comparison to himself and the reasons why we signed him is IMO flawed.
Last year Lafai averaged around 2.7 off loads / game whereas this year I think he is around 1 / game.
IMO he is a far better player when he offloads and I see it as detrimental to him and the team when he is not, so IMO going from 2.7 / game down to 1 / game is monumental and going at 1 / game for a player that can do much more is worthy of the comment almost non existent. IMO he is being hamstrung by Mc Fookknuckle.
If we cast our minds back to why Lafai was signed no one was quoting his stats compared to other players it was all wax lyrical about him, so therefore I contend that being the case, best we compare him to himself and forget about the others.
Some reasons offered why we signed him were offloads, speed, footwork, able to make decisive long runs, great defender and no doubt some others.
Out of the above I think he still has got good footwork, he can offload but does not do it anywhere near the level we expected when we signed him, he has no speed and makes no decisive long runs and his defence can be suspect.
IMO that is the truth about evaluating Lafai and the comparison to others is just confusing the issue as that wasn't part of the equation when we signed him.
Simple question does Lafai have all the qualities of the player we signed form the Dogs when he was at his best?
IMO the answer is clearly no and IMO he has never achieved at the level of which he was supposed to.
 
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Old Timer

Coach
Messages
18,140
I’m still curious to see which clubs would snap Mann up as a regular starter?

Surely if that were the case, he would have signed with them before signing his new contract with us, after Widdop, Hunt, Lafai and Aitken signed long term deals. Where did he think he was going to play?

If the guy had options, he would have taken them. I just don’t think he had that many. Having said that, I still rate him highly and would have him above Lafai or Aitken.
I would trust Mary as much as Turnbull trusts Dutton so who knows what was said or promised.
 

hazzbeen

Bench
Messages
4,617
I’m still curious to see which clubs would snap Mann up as a regular starter?

Surely if that were the case, he would have signed with them before signing his new contract with us, after Widdop, Hunt, Lafai and Aitken signed long term deals. Where did he think he was going to play?

If the guy had options, he would have taken them. I just don’t think he had that many. Having said that, I still rate him highly and would have him above Lafai or Aitken.
Mate he hasn't had a chance to show anyone anything because he has been shoved around . Covering now for Widdop , and is left there for a few games without being moved around will see interest from clubs . What I cant understand is if he does make a mistake I bet Mary will shaft him . Everyone in the team make mistakes week in and week out but the seem to keep their positions .... Hope the Mann has blinders over the next few games ......
 

muzby

Village Idiot
Staff member
Messages
45,971
I like the intent of this thread rather than just quoting statistics.
When statistics are offered to compare players I often think that is somewhat unfair as it diminishes the logic / reasoning why we actually signed the player in the 1st place.
Whilst not positive it would seem logical that signings are not based on statistics but more from observation of players in games.
Those observations would then indicate what skills, attributes the player has and would bring to the team and then weighed up against the deficiencies he has and that would form the logic behind the signing.
Its-the-vibe-your-honour-The-castle.gif


When defending a player against arguments that he is under performing etc IMO it is somewhat flawed to use the statistics of other players to justify why he is so called "going all right", as in fact we didn't sign the player on that basis, we signed him because we liked what we saw of him and therefore it would IMO be more relevant to compare the player against his own stats .

Too risky. If an ISP player is improving out of sight vs his own stats from the previous year, but is still far below what is required at NRL level, does he deserve to be graded? You can't tell unless you benchmark.

Last year Lafai averaged around 2.7 off loads / game whereas this year I think he is around 1 / game.
IMO he is a far better player when he offloads and I see it as detrimental to him and the team when he is not, so IMO going from 2.7 / game down to 1 / game is monumental and going at 1 / game for a player that can do much more is worthy of the comment almost non existent.
Welcome to the light side of the force, padowan.. See how you've quantified your argument, and helped to strengthen it from being more than just a vibe..

However... We are seeing fewer offloads this year as a whole, with even the bloke who tops the charts being down 10% year on year for his offloads per game. So this is where benchmarking a player is able to tell you if his change in performance is due to him alone, or could there be other factors?

Overall points scored by teams is down this year too. The game has changed a bit this year.


Some reasons offered why we signed him were offloads, speed, footwork, able to make decisive long runs, great defender and no doubt some others.
Others, such as we'd missed out on Peta Hiku and James Roberts in the great centre merry-go-round of 2015..
 

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
18,140
Its-the-vibe-your-honour-The-castle.gif




Too risky. If an ISP player is improving out of sight vs his own stats from the previous year, but is still far below what is required at NRL level, does he deserve to be graded? You can't tell unless you benchmark.

“Simple observation will tell you whether an ISP player looks likely and stats will he if little value as 1st grade is a totally different animal”

Welcome to the light side of the force, padowan.. See how you've quantified your argument, and helped to strengthen it from being more than just a vibe..

“I was pushing back in stats comparing him to others”

However... We are seeing fewer offloads this year as a whole, with even the bloke who tops the charts being down 10% year on year for his offloads per game. So this is where benchmarking a player is able to tell you if his change in performance is due to him alone, or could there be other factors?

Overall points scored by teams is down this year too. The game has changed a bit this year.

“I agree the game has changed especially for centres and their contribution. That is why I think Lafai has gone backwards as his most important asset is no longer used and if it was he could make a difference to how centres play”


Others, such as we'd missed out on Peta Hiku and James Roberts in the great centre merry-go-round of 2015..

“No doubt we missed some who may or may not have gone onto bigger things or in fact delivered on the logic behind their signings my point is we didn’t sign them but we did sign Lafai and he needs to be judged on what he was supposed to do and not compared to what others do”
 

st penguin

Juniors
Messages
293
“No doubt we missed some who may or may not have gone onto bigger things or in fact delivered on the logic behind their signings my point is we didn’t sign them but we did sign Lafai and he needs to be judged on what he was supposed to do and not compared to what others do”

It's probably worth mentioning that Lafai made the conscious decision to make less offloads at the start of the season.

https://www.nrl.com/news/2018/02/12/offload-king-lafai-to-be-more-selective-in-2018/

It's noticeable that he's topped trying that little flick pass of his - I wonder if he's just being too conservative now.

lafai_offloads.jpg
 

muzby

Village Idiot
Staff member
Messages
45,971
we did sign Lafai and he needs to be judged on what he was supposed to do and not compared to what others do”
I’m running faster this year and have scored more tries and provided more try assists than the past two seasons. I’m happy to take his spot.

Not sure my overall ability is up to NRL standard compared to those playing it at the moment, but I’ve smashed my own KPIs so I’ve earned the call up.
 

getsmarty

Immortal
Messages
34,407
I’m still curious to see which clubs would snap Mann up as a regular starter?

Surely if that were the case, he would have signed with them before signing his new contract with us, after Widdop, Hunt, Lafai and Aitken signed long term deals. Where did he think he was going to play?

If the guy had options, he would have taken them. I just don’t think he had that many. Having said that, I still rate him highly and would have him above Lafai or Aitken.

Wing....at a minimum...
 
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