LBA Watch 2011

[Twizzle]

If I moved this to the NRL forum, it could become bigger than the LOL@50ouff$ thread.

 

[Parraren]

If I moved this to the NRL forum, it could become bigger than the LOL@50ouff$ thread.

Please do.

I can't wait for besthalftwitpearce's input...

 

[TheParraboy]

If I moved this to the NRL forum, it could become bigger than the LOL@50ouff$ thread.

I know this is a big call, But this thread has the potential to out perform the bye bye thread..

 

[hineyrulz]

I know this is a big call, But this thread has the potential to out perform the bye bye thread..

Massive call mate.

 

[Twizzle]

No reason why Poopoo cant start one in the NRL forum.

I'd like to hear what all the Saints fans have to say about the pigmy having the same amount of LBA as a few props

 

[cleary89]

The receivers of LBA are equally important IMO, should do a list of those players. Without them, there would be no LBAs

You will love page 110 of todays tele. They have the top 10...

 

[boxhead]

13 LBA's? Tied with Benji Marshall and second only to Johnathan Thurston?
And this with one of the weakest attacking rosters' in the competition?
:lol: at all the geniuss who say he is over-rated.

 

[lingard]

Most of the time it's clear cut; sometimes it could go either way.

For what it's worth, I didn't think either of Hayne's linebreaks were even close to being a LBA for Mortimer.

So what`s the point of the stats, then?

 

[Poupou Escobar]

So what`s the point of the stats, then?

To be interpreted by a skilled analyst. Like me you stupid bastard.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

LBAs 2011 (After 14 rounds)

21 Thurston
15 Marshall
13 Hayne
10 Farah
9 Foran
9 Gasnier
9 Mateo
9 Pearce
8 Wallace
7 Hopoate
7 Slater
7 Stewart, B
6 Bowen
6 Lui
6 Mullen
6 Payne, C

5 Croker
5 Friend, J
5 Kenny-Dowall
5 Prince
5 Taylor, D
5 Tupou, A
5 Walsh

4 Boyd
4 Costigan
4 Creagh
4 Cronk
4 Ennis
4 Gallen
4 Gidley
4 Gordon, M
4 Keating, K
4 Lowrie
4 Lyon
4 McCrone
4 Moltzen
4 Nightingale
4 Payne, A
4 Pritchard
4 Sandow
4 Smith, Cameron
4 Sutton
4 Widdop

3 Anasta
3 Berrigan
3 Best
3 Bird
3 Brown, L
3 Burns
3 Champion
3 Cherry-Evans
3 Dugan
3 Graham, W
3 Henry
3 Hohaia
3 Hornby
3 Inglis
3 Locke
3 Lockyer
3 Luke
3 Morris, B
3 Morris, John
3 Nielsen
3 Tonga, E

2 Aubusson, M
2 Ballin
2 Barba
2 Bell, M
2 Blair, A
2 Bromwich
2 Brown, R
2 Campbell, P
2 Capewell
2 Carney, T
2 Cooper, M
2 Dwyer
2 Fien
2 Glenn
2 Hall, G
2 Hilder
2 Hodkinson
2 Hoffman
2 Houston
2 Idris
2 Leilua
2 Lewis, L
2 Linnett
2 Maloney
2 Matai
2 Minichiello, A
2 Mortimer
2 Naiqama
2 Norman
2 O'Neill
2 Orford
2 Packer, R
2 Parker, C
2 Proctor
2 Reddy
2 Reed
2 Ridge, B
2 Roberts, T
2 Robertson
2 Robson
2 Sa'u
2 Seymour
2 Smith, B
2 Stagg
2 Symonds
2 Taylor, E
2 Thaiday
2 Thompson, B
2 Tonga, W
2 Waterhouse
2 Wesser
2 Williams, S
2 Young, D

1 Ah Mau, L
1 Aiton
1 Arona
1 Ayshford
1 Beale
1 Blair, M
1 Bolton
1 Burt
1 Carney, J
1 Civoniceva
1 Collis
1 Cooper, G
1 Coote
1 Corrigan
1 Cuthbertson
1 Eastwood
1 Ellis
1 Fa'aoso
1 Ferguson
1 Flanagan
1 Friend, N
1 Gardner
1 Goodwin, Bryson
1 Graham, P
1 Harrison, A
1 Harrison, B
1 Heighington
1 Hodges
1 Horo
1 Hunt, B
1 Iosefa
1 James
1 Jennings
1 Kaufusi, A
1 Kelly, A
1 Luck
1 Mannering
1 Mara, A
1 McGuire
1 McManus
1 Merritt
1 Mika
1 Minichiello, M
1 Moimoi
1 Morgan, K
1 Myles
1 Nuuasala
1 Paterson
1 Payten
1 Peats
1 Prior
1 Simona
1 Snowden
1 Soward
1 Srama
1 Stanley, K
1 Stewart, G
1 Taia
1 Tamou
1 Te'o
1 Thompson, J
1 Thompson, R
1 Tighe
1 Tolman
1 Toopi
1 Tuimavave
1 Tupou, W
1 Utai
1 Vatuvei
1 Vidot
1 Walker
1 Webb
1 Weston
1 Williams, T
1 Woolnough
1 Yow Yeh
1 Zillman

Anyone not listed has zero linebreak assists for 2011.

 

[TheParraboy]

Which side has most players in that list? I can see we have 11, we are probably right up there

 

[Eels Dude]

Which side has most players in that list? I can see we have 11, we are probably right up there

Ben Smith has put as many players into holes as Daniel Mortimor has... that's a bit of a worry so it's a good thing he's been dropped. Even Carl Webb has one LBA despite only playing about 50 minutes of first grade for us this season.

 

[Casper The Ghost]

Ben Smith has put as many players into holes as Daniel Mortimor has... that's a bit of a worry so it's a good thing he's been dropped. Even Carl Webb has one LBA despite only playing about 50 minutes of first grade for us this season.

Do you have to discuss the players private lives here?

 

[Casper The Ghost]

Poo Poo, could you please put together a players MIA list?

 

[Poupou Escobar]

LBAs 2011 (After 14 rounds)

21 Thurston
15 Marshall
13 Hayne
10 Farah
9 Foran
9 Gasnier
9 Mateo
9 Pearce
8 Wallace
7 Hopoate
7 Slater
7 Stewart, B
6 Bowen
6 Lui
6 Mullen
6 Payne, C
5 Croker
5 Friend, J
5 Kenny-Dowall
5 Prince
5 Taylor, D
5 Tupou, A
5 Walsh

This is the top 23 (an arbitrary cutoff of 5 LBAs but includes at least 1 player from each club):

3 Roosters (Pearce, Friend, Kenny-Dowall)
3 Sea Eagles (Foran, Hopoate, Stewart)
3 Tigers (Marshall, Farah, Lui)
2 Cowboys (Thurston, Bowen)
1 Broncos (Wallace)
1 Bulldogs (Payne)
1 Dragons (Gasnier)
1 Eels (Hayne)
1 Knights (Mullen)
1 Panthers (Walsh)
1 Rabbitohs (Taylor)
1 Raiders (Croker)
1 Sharks (Tupou)
1 Storm (Slater)
1 Titans (Prince)
1 Warriors (Mateo)

What does this mean? It could mean a lot of things. But the key point is this list of clubs-by-number-of-top-playmakers only tangentially reflects the competition ladder:

1. Dragons
2. Storm
3. Sea Eagles (3 playmakers in top 23)
4. Cowboys (2 playmakers in top 23)
5. Broncos
6. Tigers (3 playmakers in top 23)
7. Warriors
8. Bulldogs
9. Knights
10. Panthers
11. Eels
12. Rabbitohs
13. Roosters (3 playmakers in top 23)
14. Titans
15. Sharks
16. Raiders

Of the top 6 clubs, the Dragons and Storm do very little passing at the line and so have developed a reputation for boring play - neither club's top bloke for LBAs plays in the halves. Parra plays a similar style, only we're sitting further down the ladder. The Bulldogs likewise play this way and they sit in the top 8. Then there's the Broncos who also do f**k-all passing at the line but because of their reputation they've avoided the 'boring' tag.

Then there's the Warriors, who have worse halves than we do. They only have sometime five-eighth Feleti Mateo in the list. Feleti got 4 of his 9 LBAs on the weekend just gone while playing as an edge back-rower.

The other three top 8 clubs - Manly, Wests and the NQ Thurstons all have 2 or 3 playmakers in the top 23. Finally there's the Chooks in the bottom half of the table with 3 guys in the list. Obviously more was expected of them this year.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Ben Smith has put as many players into holes as Daniel Mortimor has... that's a bit of a worry so it's a good thing he's been dropped.

But Mortimer's put as many players through holes as Robson has, despite playing less games. Should Robson have been dropped instead?

Esi Tonga's got as many LBAs as Darren Lockyer this year (3). Should Esi have been picked at five-eighth for Queensland instead? Neville Costigan has more LBAs than Lockyer. Is that a sad indictment on Lockyer?

Or should we maybe not compare players at different positions?

Even Carl Webb has one LBA despite only playing about 50 minutes of first grade for us this season.

We call that an insufficiently large sample size to make any comparisons.

Webb's LBA came from a hit up in the left third of the field where there's more room than in the middle, in our own half where the defenders didn't realistically expect an offload.

Of the four starting halves that played Origin on Wednesday, Feleti Mateo has as many LBAs (at club level) as all of them bar Thurston.

On top of that, Payne, Taylor, Tupou, Costigan, Creagh, Gallen, Lowrie and Pritchard all have more LBAs than both Lockyer and Soward.

Jamie Soward actually only has 1 for the year.

 

[TheParraboy]

Do you have to discuss the players private lives here?

:lol::lol:

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Don't order the 'calamari'.

 

[Eels Dude]

But Mortimer's put as many players through holes as Robson has, despite playing less games. Should Robson have been dropped instead?

Esi Tonga's got as many LBAs as Darren Lockyer this year (3). Should Esi have been picked at five-eighth for Queensland instead? Neville Costigan has more LBAs than Lockyer. Is that a sad indictment on Lockyer?

Or should we maybe not compare players at different positions?



We call that an insufficiently large sample size to make any comparisons.

Webb's LBA came from a hit up in the left third of the field where there's more room than in the middle, in our own half where the defenders didn't realistically expect an offload.

Of the four starting halves that played Origin on Wednesday, Feleti Mateo has as many LBAs (at club level) as all of them bar Thurston.

On top of that, Payne, Taylor, Tupou, Costigan, Creagh, Gallen, Lowrie and Pritchard all have more LBAs than both Lockyer and Soward.

Jamie Soward actually only has 1 for the year.

Those are perfect examples of why stats don't tell the full story Poupou. They certainly have their place and are very valuable... I know you love them to backup your arguments but they don't always show all of the picture.

The fact that Carl Webb has a linebreak assist this season devalues the line break assist statistic. The player credited with the linebreak assist is not always the one who had the vision to set up the play. And like you gave a breakdown of how Webb's LBA occured, the same thing can be done for every single LBA.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Those are perfect examples of why stats don't tell the full story Poupou. They certainly have their place and are very valuable... I know you love them to backup your arguments but they don't always show all of the picture.

Well mate that's what I just said.

The fact that Carl Webb has a linebreak assist this season devalues the line break assist statistic.

No it doesn't at all. He offloaded to a player in a good position and that player ran away for a 70 metre linebreak.

The fact Webb has 1 LBA means very little, because it's only 1 LBA.

The fact the Australian halfback has 6 more LBAs than the bloke coming second (who happens to be the primary playmaker for the Kiwis) means a great deal.

That's why Trent Hodkinson (for example) isn't anywhere near the top 30. Because he's not good enough.

The player credited with the linebreak assist is not always the one who had the vision to set up the play.

It's not just about vision though. There's also the skill required to use the gap in the first place. Just because a player sees a gap doesn't mean he'll be able to put a runner through it - the main reason is usually that the less skillful players telegraph their intent to put the runner through and so the hole closes up.

Finally there's players like Benji Marshall that attract defenders and create gaps all around them. Whenever Benji runs the ball, gaps open up for his runners. Mateo is similar.

And like you gave a breakdown of how Webb's LBA occured, the same thing can be done for every single LBA.

It sure can which is why we have a list of players and their LBAs over the course of a season. Do you think, at the midpoint of the season, that it's any coincidence that the top 10 players (top 12 actually with three sitting in equal 10th) for LBAs have all played Origin or international football for the Kiwis? The only exception is Feleti Mateo who is widely considered the best offloader in the game.

Sure, after round 1 you could say the list was meaningless. But by round 14 there are clear leaders in the category and they all share a reputation for being quality attacking players.

It's no coincidence Eels Dude. This is what you're missing.