League in the USA

[Play some footy]

It is. Plane tickets paid for, expenses paid for, and many get a stipend. That is semi-pro.

I played 4 seasons of SL in the US and NEVER heard of a player having a stipend or not having to dig deep in there pockets for air fare and expenses. In addition - these same players had to pay dues on top of it. In fact - you'll notice that a lot of players (and teams) have left SL in recent years b/c a season can run a player upwards to 1K. Take a look at the top half of Div 1 teams in the country - anyone of these teams could not only compete with SL teams but beat them.

Or the highly successful tag rugby organization in New Jersey?

You can't posssibly be using tag footy as an example for an "established youth rugby program" You just be joking you goose.

Do you include high school?

Sure - if what they played something that resembled rugby intead of kill the man with the ball.

Do you remember Jacob Waasdorp? All Pac-10 defensive tackle who was just a shade too short to play in the NFL. Played prop for the Eagles up until Thorburn came in. Carl Hansen played in the NFL. James Lik was a star at Wake Forest. Kort Schubert was an all-city football player in high school and was Athlete of the Year at Cal-Berkeley in 2002. Shaun Paga played D1 football at Cal and had a stint with the Vikings. Brian Surgener played D1 football at Berkeley. Many of these athletes have trouble making the starting XV for the Eagles so it clearly isn't a case of lack of athleticism in the side. The simple problem is that our players come to rugby too late in life to have good instincts. As the average starting age of rugby players in this country continues to drop, the results will soon show.

It all comes together now - you're a West Coast kid that holds the same bias as the Eagles selectors - that West Coast has the best rugby in the country. In fact - in recent years, I believe that Marfu won the December all-star event and NYAC won SL a year ago despite having to deal with a ton of defectors to league.

 

[Tomahawk]

IRB World Rankings 18/09/2006
Position
(last week) Member Union Rating points
1(1) NEW ZEALAND 92.91
2(2) FRANCE 87.53
3(3) SOUTH AFRICA 87.05
4(4) AUSTRALIA 86.13
5(5) IRELAND 82.01
6(6) ENGLAND 79.66
7(7) SCOTLAND 77.72
8(8) ARGENTINA 77.49
9(9) WALES 76.34
10(10) SAMOA 73.86
11(11) FIJI 73.15
12(12) ITALY 72.11
13(13) CANADA 69.11
14(14) ROMANIA 67.31
15(15) USA 66.55
16(16) TONGA 66.04
17(18) .. URUGUAY 65.63
18(17) .. GEORGIA 65.56
19(19) RUSSIA 64.54
20(20) JAPAN 63.05
21(21) PORTUGAL 60.88
22(22) MOROCCO 60.52
23(23) KOREA 60.21
24(24) CHILE 59.27
25(27) .. SPAIN 57.82
26(26) GERMANY 56.06
27(28) .. HONG KONG 55.21
28(29) .. NAMIBIA 54.74
29(25) .. CZECH REPUBLIC 54.49
30(30) PARAGUAY 53.82
31(31) BELGIUM 52.75
32(32) TUNISIA 52.66
33(33) UKRAINE 52.54
34(34) NETHERLANDS 51.72
35(35) BRAZIL 50.72
36(36) MOLDOVA 50.22
37(37) KENYA 49.63
38(38) POLAND 49.55
39(39) CROATIA 48.93
40(40) CHINESE TAIPEI 48.41
41(41) ARABIAN GULF 48.32
42(42) LATVIA 48.26
43(43) SRI LANKA 48.16
44(44) KAZAKHSTAN 47.95
45(45) MADAGASCAR 47.95
46(46) SWEDEN 47.71
47(47) IVORY COAST 47.54
48(48) SWITZERLAND 47.13
49(50) .. UGANDA 46.78
50(51) .. CHINA 46.58
51(52) .. MALTA 46.43
52(53) .. SINGAPORE 46.00
53(54) .. COOK ISLANDS 45.87
54(49) .. ZIMBABWE 45.51
55(55) VENEZUELA 45.45
56(56) PERU 45.44
57(57) PAPUA NEW GUINEA 45.09
58(58) DENMARK 45.05
59(59) TRINIDAD & TOBAGO 43.97
60(60) CAYMAN 43.87
61(61) ANDORRA 43.54
62(62) BARBADOS 43.13
63(63) SENEGAL 42.13
64(64) MALAYSIA 41.70
65(65) BERMUDA 41.69
66(74) .. ZAMBIA 41.35
67(66) .. LITHUANIA 41.19
68(67) .. NIUE ISLANDS 40.96
69(68) .. SLOVENIA 40.90
70(69) .. THAILAND 40.80
71(70) .. GUYANA 40.35
72(71) .. HUNGARY 40.05
73(72) .. SERBIA AND MONTENEGRO 40.04
74(73) .. AUSTRIA 39.97
75(75) ST. VINCENT & THE GRENADINES 39.30
76(76) SOLOMON ISLANDS 39.06
77(77) JAMAICA 38.97
78(78) MONACO 38.81
79(79) NORWAY 38.70
80(80) BOTSWANA 38.64
81(81) CAMEROON 38.52
82(82) GUAM 38.13
83(83) LUXEMBOURG 37.93
84(84) SWAZILAND 37.57
85(85) ST. LUCIA 37.57
86(86) COLOMBIA 37.53
87(87) TAHITI 36.25
88(88) INDIA 36.20
89(89) NIGERIA 36.00
90(90) BAHAMAS 35.61
91(91) BULGARIA 35.20
92(92) VANUATU 34.77
93(93) ISRAEL 34.56
94(94) BOSNIA & HERZEGOVINA 31.80
95(95) FINLAND 29.32

 

[Kurt Angle]

So 13 countries are claimed to have more than 40 or 50 thousand players?
Incredible.

Here's one of them..according to the IRB official web site.

Official IRB figures for Ivory Coast

No. of Clubs: 10
Total number of players: 59,200

=5,920 players per club :lol:

http://www.irb.com/en/Home/MemberUni...ionID=52&Tab=3

 

[phat cat]

Listen, the reality is that any club in the AMNRL would be happy to have more guys that play in the USA rugby Super League! IRB world Rankings are a moot point. the fact of the matter is that USA RUGBY (union governing body in the states) has organizational issues!

as far as i'm concerned the major factor that league in the USA has going for it is that it is growing at a manageable rate that is somewhat managed by the AMNRL. b/c RL is reletively small in the USA it is much easier to monitor the standard of play, players, teams, etc. IN Union You have a governing body with very little money trying to do 100 things at once and monitor thousands of players and CLUBS! they are literally spread too thin

lets be honest, we have 12 teams made up mostly of Union players that Enjoy playing rugby league, a group of leaders that want to see the league grow, and a game that is much easier for an american Audience to understand! I love my RU but the fact is that watching a game of rugby union at anything but Professional standard is like pulling teeth, especially for someone who has no idea what is going on! League as we all know is much easier to watch and explain to someone who has never seen it before!

Rugby league has a lot to work with in the US and with a lot of hard work will continue to grow

thats my 2 cents

 

[screeny]

Listen, the reality is that any club in the AMNRL would be happy to have more guys that play in the USA rugby Super League! IRB world Rankings are a moot point. the fact of the matter is that USA RUGBY (union governing body in the states) has organizational issues!

as far as i'm concerned the major factor that league in the USA has going for it is that it is growing at a manageable rate that is somewhat managed by the AMNRL. b/c RL is reletively small in the USA it is much easier to monitor the standard of play, players, teams, etc. IN Union You have a governing body with very little money trying to do 100 things at once and monitor thousands of players and CLUBS! they are literally spread too thin

lets be honest, we have 12 teams made up mostly of Union players that Enjoy playing rugby league, a group of leaders that want to see the league grow, and a game that is much easier for an american Audience to understand! I love my RU but the fact is that watching a game of rugby union at anything but Professional standard is like pulling teeth, especially for someone who has no idea what is going on! League as we all know is much easier to watch and explain to someone who has never seen it before!

Rugby league has a lot to work with in the US and with a lot of hard work will continue to grow

thats my 2 cents

When do these union players who are merely playing league in the off-season become league players first and foremost?

I became a league player when I decided that league was better than union (after about two viewed matches of SOO). If they prefer RL surely that makes them leaguies first and foremost, no?

 

[slow frontrower]

Go Eagles, go home. You are an idiot that has no idea what he is talking about with the AMNRL, or USA Rugby.

Usa Rugby is a fat f***ing joke. To say anything else is just not true. they are borderline bankrupt. They are running on IRB funds, and very soon the sh** is going to hit the fan. Its embaressing to me and should be to you. THere is no way the US could play a top 5 team within 50 points.

I love union and I love league. It's good that the sports don't have the same seasons here because players like me get the best of both worlds.

What David Niu has done is nothing short of amazing. (FYI He promotes both codes where ever he has a chance) There are youth clinics in the Philly area, and the game is growing every year. There will be 12-14 teams next year, which is pretty good since the game started in the US less than 10 years ago. Rugby has been here since 1880's or 1890's. And we suck. The Eagles are fuc*ing joke. I love them as much as you do but we are on a rapid descent and our best day might be behind us. The sucess of Rugby League will only help union in this country.

Goeagles you're a philly guy right...., matt wyatt would sit on the bench for the wildcats. So would a few others of the first 15 usa players.

There are guys who play league here in the US who have played first grade union in the Sydney comp in their first year of Union. Its a harder faster game, no questions about it.

 

[taipan]

Lantana, The IRB is not panicking. All stakeholders accept that it is time for a review of the rules, after 10 years of professionalism. .. I have pointed out elsewhere that the most radical changes in rugby union have come about not because of rule changes, but because of coaching changes. Major coaching changes in the last 20 or so years include that forwards are now empowered to run with the ball from all phases. Twenty years ago, forwards did not run with the ball. .. The hooker now throws the ball into the line-out, whereas it used to be commonplace for the blindside winger to throw the ball in. This has freed up another back to take part in set plays from the set piece..... Another major change is the emergence of specialist open-side and blind-side flankers, which has changed the dynamic of the break-down and the contest for possession quite radically. .. The advent of open professionalism has meant that players at the elite levels are far fitter, and stronger, than they were 10 or 20 years ago. This fact, and the coaching changes that I have listed above, mean that the game is now a bit out of kilter, and needs re-calibrating. That is hardly surprising. .. However, where rugby differs from league is that changes to the rules are the province of the IRB. In rugby league, the NRL seems to have the power to change rules at its whim, which is hardly the way to grow an international game. Finally, scrums and lineouts are part of the core of rugby. If you don't understand and appreciate them, you will not enjoy either watching or playing the game. That is your choice. Are all line-out throws perfectly straight? No, but in the interests of the contest the referee will only blow a penalty when the defending side genuinely contests the throw. As for scrums, frankly the dominant eight will win its own put-in, no matter what. The less powerful eight will win its ball, but under pressure. This pressure is the point of the contest...........a ball won under pressure is sometimes of less value than a tight-head conceded........And one final point on the power that the NRL exerts over the rules, and the game.........Do you think that the 10 metres defensive line is workable in developing countries, where the players are not full-time professionals? What about the 40/20 rules, how often does this manouvre get exercised in developing countries? What about the "golden point"? Is that a rugby league rule, or only an NRL rule?

To correct you as is usual,the NRL or ARL(as an example) did not bring in limited tackle football into rugby league,it was introduced from memory by a Pommy by the name of Fallowfield. It wasn't an NRL/ARL innovation.
The IRB/SANZAR is indeed panicking,thats why McQueen et al were over in SA,trying to reduce the eternal number of confusing laws and stoppages.McQueen even made the statement in your favourite rag the Sydney Morning Cyril, that they will be able to compete with rugby league sic.
Greg Growden,Derriman of the same rag,Greg Martin(former wallaby back) and Campese(the turnstile tackler) have all complained about the drabness etc of the game.
Ask yourself why Rogers is coming back to rugby league,Sailor wants to,and Lote would like to -money permitting.Answer they get the ball in hand and are involved.Lote when initially told he had signed for 2 years to play union just pror to the 2003WC,his comment"sh.t i thought it was only for 1 year".

 

[Sam_the_man]

Having played union to a reasonable level in NZ and having played league all threw my junior days, i can say with some authority that league is by far a faster more intence sport than union. League is a mans game best described as a collision sport as compared to union that is a contact sport. If i'm being honest then i'd have to say i stopped playing league to protect my body.....union is far far easier on the body than league. My great uncle was a Kiwi, he also played senior union in Auckland, he was always of the opinion that if you wanted to run with the ball in hand,score tries, really hit hard in tackles and generally play RUGBY for the reason that rugby was invented then league wa s everything Webb-Ellis could have asked for. If you wanted to kick the ball away, chase the ball all day long, watch people kicking penalties and drop kicks for points stick your head in a scrum and push, walk off the field having made 6 tackles and run with the ball twice then union was your game.

So there ya go Woods99 and Goeagles, that from me (having played both sports to a reasonable level) and my uncle who played both to a high level. We've played both sports and enjoyed both....have either of you played both rugbys to a high level and so have a base for your opinions or are you just talking out of your asses???
Heres one thing that has always struck me about the two sports. League players can sit down and watch a union test and enjoy it and comment of how well one player played or how well a team played....but union players will watch a game of league, or a game of union with league friends and try and pull league apart and critise it and say how much better union is. Is this due to an inferiority complex?

 

[Sam_the_man]

Moderators - can we get back to talking about rugby league in the USA instead of reading posts from people attacking league in general?
Thank you.

 

[roopy]

Moderators - can we get back to talking about rugby league in the USA instead of reading posts from people attacking league in general?
Thank you.

I've let this thread remain here - and participated in it - because it is off season in the US so this isn't distracting from genuine discussion of the development of league in the US.
It belongs in The Fight Club - and i'll put it there if the American posters ask me to get rid of it.

 

[Tomahawk]

Working and playing on the same team with Dave Nui I can tell you that Dave would like the relationship with the guys to play rugby union and rugby league to be good. For the past 4 years the Glen Mills Bulls have played in a rugby benefit tournament. Other teams that have participated in that tournament have been the Philadelphia Fight, Connedicut Wildcats, Northern Raiders, New York Knights, and Delaware MantaRays, sorry if I missed any other teams.

The Wildcats also participate in a rugby union benefit tournament were there is a rugby league match played. I know both the Bulls and Raiders have played the Wildcats in this tournament.

The MantaRays also played the Fight two years ago at a rugby league match at a union tournament that was being held at FDR (Franklin) Park.

Since I have never played union I cannot really give you my opinion on playing both sports. I can tell you that I think it is much easier to follow a rugby league match. I find rugby union matches hard to follow. I also think the guys are better fit that are playing league compared to the guys that play union. This is just my opinion though.

 

[spinnerhowland]

The Jacksonville Axemen have partnered very well with the local Union Club. We have many of them play for us during the season as well as some guys form other clubs from North Florida. We are almost like making a representative side because we only take the best guys and we pay for everything. We fly them, pay for gear, rentals, accomadations and some meals during away trips. The only difference is that we play league not union. In return we help support the local Uniopn CLub by allowing them to advertise at all our games, we will sponsor a hole at their golf tournament and we forward all the union inquiries from our website. It is a very good arrangement for both clubs. I play for both teams and we share equipment and ideas.

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

So, 5-6 years later, both codes have played/qualified for their respective World Cups. Are people still of the same opinion they were before?

I've read a few times in the last month that the Union code is supposedly going pro next year, anyone know if this is true, and with the Tomahawks making the next WC, can anyone see RL going semi/fully pro within the next 10 years?

 

[WAPAU]

So, 5-6 years later, both codes have played/qualified for their respective World Cups. Are people still of the same opinion they were before?

I've read a few times in the last month that the Union code is supposedly going pro next year, anyone know if this is true, and with the Tomahawks making the next WC, can anyone see RL going semi/fully pro within the next 10 years?

I would take the pro talk with a grain of salt. Believe it when you see it. Although this time around the talk of a pro comp seems to be coming from more respected people within the union world.

What I have heard which seems much more believable is that the USA and Canada are joining the pacific nations cup next with Japan, Fiji, Samoa and Tonga. Will provide them with meaningful and regular competition which is super important for growth.

With union in the US they are focusing more on the grass roots - getting it played at high school and in college. They have a junior expansion plan that is far better than anything the incompetent ARU can come up with.

 

[Big Picture]

The Jacksonville Axemen have partnered very well with the local Union Club. We have many of them play for us during the season as well as some guys form other clubs from North Florida. We are almost like making a representative side because we only take the best guys and we pay for everything. We fly them, pay for gear, rentals, accomadations and some meals during away trips. The only difference is that we play league not union. In return we help support the local Uniopn CLub by allowing them to advertise at all our games, we will sponsor a hole at their golf tournament and we forward all the union inquiries from our website. It is a very good arrangement for both clubs. I play for both teams and we share equipment and ideas.

Spinner, how long do you foresee it taking until you can move away from relying on Union players and extending your season back into the spring?

 

[MattyCLark]

Spinner, how long do you foresee it taking until you can move away from relying on Union players and extending your season back into the spring?

I for one hope that Spinner and the Axemen never move away form the Union team. Jacksonville is the largest city (land mass) in the USA and all the rugby exposure that both teams can help each other out with is a benifit. We have fans that call themselves RUGBY fans and attend both Union and League matches.

Its really a blessing for players like me to have both codes in Jacksonville. This way I can play rugby year round.

I prioritize my code on the inmportance of the matches. For instance this November I am playing in the Atlantic Cup matches. Union season this spring during USA rugby playoffs I'll be skipping Axemen to play in the Union playoffs and vice versa.

I do agree with the posts that the national teams don't have the best players in the country playing for them. And I'm not saying myself. But even the Union selection is how ua know

 

[Evil Homer]

I for one hope that Spinner and the Axemen never move away form the Union team. Jacksonville is the largest city (land mass) in the USA and all the rugby exposure that both teams can help each other out with is a benifit. We have fans that call themselves RUGBY fans and attend both Union and League matches.

I know that some Americans see 'rugby' as a whole in this way, however the fact is that they are different sports. You playing RL in the summer and union in the winter is about as relevant as someone who plays baseball in summer and hockey in winter, or any two other sports where the seasons don't clash. If you play both and enjoy both then great, but ultimately the wider public need to realise that RL and RU are completely different, unrelated sports.

 

[RedVee]

Do Americans use the term 'Union', or is it just rugby with a funny cousin that is played in the offseason?

 

[billy2]

If League and Union in America keep on good terms for another 20 years, League will get a lot more out of it than Union will.
Union is many, many times bigger at the moment, and if we can use their players, we do well from the deal.
It means League is stuck with a 3 month season for now, but in time that will change.

 

[NRL-TGG]

Do Americans use the term 'Union', or is it just rugby with a funny cousin that is played in the offseason?

I think most of them call both sports 'Rugby' and don't know the difference between the two sports, thinking its one sport.

But I was surprised to hear Tiger Woods talk about both "league" and "union".