Lebanon

[Mullins!!!]

f**k! well that could complicate things. On a more positive note I hope Italy help contribute to Lebanese Rugby League over the next few years. I mean they already have a great rivalry why not play a 3 game series against them next year or something?

 

[langpark]

Getting word from a couple of Lebanon players that the Italy field goal actually missed. Apparently even a few Italian players acknowledged it missed. Wish the RLIF weren't a shambles and actually posted highlights so we can judge for ourselves.

That's tragic if true...

When I was watching Serbia/Russia highlights (same field for Italy/Lebanon) I remember thinking just how tiny the goalposts were, nowhere near the proper height and I remember think how it must be difficult to tell whether high conversions or field goals have gone in or missed. I guess it doesn't matter for the Serbia/Russia match, but for the other match, where WC qualification is at stake then it's a different story...

There should be stricter regulations for the qualifiers in 2017, even if it means that RLIF has to spend a few thousand bucks to ensure the likes of Serbia, Russia, Jamaica have proper height goalposts...

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

That's tragic if true...

When I was watching Serbia/Russia highlights (same field for Italy/Lebanon) I remember thinking just how tiny the goalposts were, nowhere near the proper height and I remember think how it must be difficult to tell whether high conversions or field goals have gone in or missed. I guess it doesn't matter for the Serbia/Russia match, but for the other match, where WC qualification is at stake then it's a different story...

There should be stricter regulations for the qualifiers in 2017, even if it means that RLIF has to spend a few thousand bucks to ensure the likes of Serbia, Russia, Jamaica have proper height goalposts...

Good point.

For full internationals, you can't use kiddies posts.

 

[The General]

That's tragic if true...

When I was watching Serbia/Russia highlights (same field for Italy/Lebanon) I remember thinking just how tiny the goalposts were, nowhere near the proper height and I remember think how it must be difficult to tell whether high conversions or field goals have gone in or missed. I guess it doesn't matter for the Serbia/Russia match, but for the other match, where WC qualification is at stake then it's a different story...

There should be stricter regulations for the qualifiers in 2017, even if it means that RLIF has to spend a few thousand bucks to ensure the likes of Serbia, Russia, Jamaica have proper height goalposts...

Yeah not only that but I was also told the field was terrible to play on. The line markings weren't even 10 metres apart across the field. You can see that in the Russia/Serbia highlights.

I know these countries aren't big on rugby league but we have to do better for international games, especially world cup qualifiers.

 

[dorcolrugby]

The pitch dimensions and markings were 100% according to standards and rules and regulations. FYI, by standards, the pitch should be 55-68m wide, 88-100m long and 6-11m in goal area. The posts just need to be H shaped, they can be even hybrid, i.e. american football posts, with height only 40 cm over crossbar.

You know, this competition had match commissioners, and if you don't believe them, there was tournament director also at the place and if anything was wrong-done, he would make interventions. Italy played there a week before and nothing had changed since than, so the pitch and the posts were well-known to everyone.

Re field goals, the referee was well positioned on all three occasions (you probably don't know that Lebanon missed one and scored another FG attempt and Italians scored 1/1) and if Ghietti missed and Alibert given, that was only because referee wanted so, not due to tiny goal posts. However, I watched DVD from the game, and the attempt looks just fine.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

So are these the same officials that allowed Italy to ring-in players last year that had Serbia talking about packing it in?

 

[dorcolrugby]

The officials changed since European Cup 2009. Serbia's complaint was due to ring-in players who were not on initial lists, but called for game v Serbia with false medical reports for domestic plyers who played RU games on the same weekends. Different people ran European development in 2009.

By the way, find video clip from Italy v Lebanon game here: http://www.webtv.rs/default.asp?id=252#
(Ragbi 13, kvalifikacije za SP, Italija - Liban 19:19) - 4mins highlights, some tries (not all) and Italy FG.

 

[rlv]

I'm an Italian fan and extremely happy and excited that they are in the World Cup but at the same time feel for Lebanon.
Why did so many other nations get automatic entry? Both Italy and Lebanon probably have more local players than Samoa, Tonga, Cook Islands, Scotland and Ireland. Can possibly add Fiji there to.

I don't think Lebanese fans like East Coast Tiger should be having a go at Italy for this though, complain to the RLIF.
ECT you said "Italy have all the ring-ins in the world and they still aren't good enough to beat Lebanon" looking at their match day squads for their game, Italy actually had 1 or 2 more local born/domestic players than Lebanon did.

Both nations are doing well with domestic competitions up and with heritage players which can help the locals part of the national teams gain great experience and pass it on back home. The RLIF however really should change the qualifying process for 2017 and also rules on player eligibilty for national teams. The 2013 World Cup looks to pretty much feature AUS, NZ, PNG, ENG, FRA, half of Wales, half of USA and other nations full of heritage players not good enough to make their own national sides

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

I'm an Italian fan and extremely happy and excited that they are in the World Cup but at the same time feel for Lebanon.
Why did so many other nations get automatic entry? Both Italy and Lebanon probably have more local players than Samoa, Tonga, Cook Islands, Scotland and Ireland. Can possibly add Fiji there to.

I don't think Lebanese fans like East Coast Tiger should be having a go at Italy for this though, complain to the RLIF.
ECT you said "Italy have all the ring-ins in the world and they still aren't good enough to beat Lebanon" looking at their match day squads for their game, Italy actually had 1 or 2 more local born/domestic players than Lebanon did.

Both nations are doing well with domestic competitions up and with heritage players which can help the locals part of the national teams gain great experience and pass it on back home. The RLIF however really should change the qualifying process for 2017 and also rules on player eligibilty for national teams. The 2013 World Cup looks to pretty much feature AUS, NZ, PNG, ENG, FRA, half of Wales, half of USA and other nations full of heritage players not good enough to make their own national sides

What's this half stuff mate?

 

[rlv]

USA and Wales have half a team of local domestic/born players and the other half for USA are from Aus, other half from Wales are born in England/Australia

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

USA and Wales have half a team of local domestic/born players and the other half for USA are from Aus, other half from Wales are born in England/Australia

They haven't played in the WC yet and who knows where they will come from.

Wales RL is played all over the country these days.

You might have a point with the USA, but we'll have to wait and see.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

I'm an Italian fan and extremely happy and excited that they are in the World Cup but at the same time feel for Lebanon.
Why did so many other nations get automatic entry? Both Italy and Lebanon probably have more local players than Samoa, Tonga, Cook Islands, Scotland and Ireland. Can possibly add Fiji there to.

I don't think Lebanese fans like East Coast Tiger should be having a go at Italy for this though, complain to the RLIF.
ECT you said "Italy have all the ring-ins in the world and they still aren't good enough to beat Lebanon" looking at their match day squads for their game, Italy actually had 1 or 2 more local born/domestic players than Lebanon did.

Both nations are doing well with domestic competitions up and with heritage players which can help the locals part of the national teams gain great experience and pass it on back home. The RLIF however really should change the qualifying process for 2017 and also rules on player eligibilty for national teams. The 2013 World Cup looks to pretty much feature AUS, NZ, PNG, ENG, FRA, half of Wales, half of USA and other nations full of heritage players not good enough to make their own national sides

Italy are full of ring-ins because none of those Aussie players played for them before. The Lebanese boys put their hand up every year, not just when it's a WC qualifier. Most of them have paid their own way for years and most are semi-pro so they have jobs they have to put on hold. It's easy for the professional "Italian" players to show up for a couple of games every four years when they don't make the Australian side. That's what makes them a team of ring-ins. The fact they have so many NRL players yet still couldn't beat Lebanon shows how half-hearted they are. Class can only get you so far if you don't have the attitude to match. Does anyone even know how many clubs belong to the official Italian governing body and if they even play a proper comp? If they don't have enough they shouldn't even be in the WC. And they can't inclide the southern teams if they're not a unified organisation. It's not just Italy either. Ireland's domestic set-up is a farce but they get a walk-up start and will fill their team with second string English players. That's all IRL is these days, a competition between countries with an almost non-existent domestic scene to see who can ring-in the best players from Australia and England. It's all about which country had the most emigrants in the last 50 or 60 years, not who has produced the best RL team.

 

[dorcolrugby]

...

Both nations are doing well with domestic competitions up...

Well, if you find it important, Italy is not, Lebanon is. Italian domestic competition was few summer weekends with addition of "Origin" game to build some players' domestic comp games (Quitadamo, Australian born, raised, etc., played some of these games and became domestic player for RLWCQ).

...and with heritage players which can help the locals part of the national teams gain great experience and pass it on back home.

What is the point of playing domestic competition, when Australian player come in to play Italian league for 3-4 weeks during summer (winter in Australia) or involve semi pro players from France in touring 'A' (amateur) side, which qualify them then as domestic players?

The RLIF however really should change the qualifying process for 2017 and also rules on player eligibilty for national teams.

...

This is much needed if we want domestic competition to gain some significance.

 

[rlv]

Italy are full of ring-ins because none of those Aussie players played for them before

8 of them have actually.

It's easy for the professional "Italian" players to show up for a couple of games every four years

After the 2008 qualifiers in 07, where did the Australian heritage players go in 08 when Lebanon lost 80-0 to Russia?

most are semi-pro so they have jobs they have to put on hold

Most of Italy are semi pro to

The fact they have so many NRL players

????? Italy had 4 players max with NRL experience and Lebanon had 2, possibly even more. Italy had one or 2 more domestic/local born players

shows how half-hearted they are

The 4 NRL players could've stayed back if they wanted but they didn't. They were proud to be selected for Italy and because they wanted to play, the FIRL had to pay 10s of thousands for NRL clubs to release those 4 players. The clubs could have easily said no and not risk their players getting injured but like I said, they were proud and honoured to be selected and the clubs understood, letting them go and with an insurance fee incase injuries which then the club pays to fix up.



There is pretty much no difference in the 2 national teams when comparing players, how many from here or there. You shouldn't be angry at Italy, it should be the RLIF for the way the 2013 World Cup has been set up with teams gaining auto entry ahead of nations like Lebanon who had to put in hard work and spend money in qualifying

 

[Bombay Devils RLFC]

If there is one positive out of this we are actually got a debate going on which side(s) should have made the WC. Who would have thought this a few years ago? Going forward maybe some criteria about the number of domestic players that must be used can be initiated. All I can say is lets embrace the WC. I am planning to visit with my aging Dad as we love the game and spend our greatest hours together debating the merits of the teams and the players. Hope most of you feel the same.

 

[rlv]

Well, if you find it important, Italy is not, Lebanon is. Italian domestic competition was few summer weekends with addition of "Origin" game to build some players' domestic comp games (Quitadamo, Australian born, raised, etc., played some of these games and became domestic player for RLWCQ).

What is the point of playing domestic competition, when Australian player come in to play Italian league for 3-4 weeks during summer (winter in Australia) or involve semi pro players from France in touring 'A' (amateur) side, which qualify them then as domestic players?

For the first part, yes Italy still have alot of work to do to and have a more professional structure locally. The split screwd things up and the FIRL were pretty much in a rush to have a natioanl side fit the RLIF criteria to be part of a World Cup. They did still have Italian born players playing in Italy in their WCQ side.
For the 2nd part I ment both national teams with Aussies mixed with locals it helps the local players for both Italy and Lebanon gain experience and can then share that in their competitions

But yeah like I said, the player eligibility rule needs to change. Russia and Serbia had no chance with just local players. For qualifying maybe Ita/lebanese should have only been alowed to use local players so makes things easier to decide who out of those 4 deserved to make the World Cup (and there should have been qualifiers for the pacific nations to)

 

[rlv]

If there is one positive out of this we are actually got a debate going on which side(s) should have made the WC. .

ah hope I haven't made it look like Italy deserved it more than Lebanon, it's more they both COULD deserve to be there ahead of others who gained auto entry. With the current player rule, on paper they both deserve to be there but I do not agree with the current rule and too many nationas are taking advantage of it

 

[RedVee]

IMO it is a shame that the last 2 qualifiers are nations that only selected from 1/2 (if that) of the local clubs.

However, if they were accepted into the RLWCQ (and they were) then they have qualified under the current rules. I had hoped, that with Lebanon and Italy being likely to be of a higher standard, that the 2nd place nation of the Euro region play off with the winner of the Atlantic region much like the winner of the Oceania region in soccer used to play off against the fifth (sixth?) placer from Sth America.

But, congrats to Italy. I'm hopeful that they will soon be challenging Wales and France in competitive encounters.

 

[gsweeper]

aargh, what's frustrating me is the fact that Russia and Serbia never had a chance against Lebanon or Italy, and many of you are arguing that fair is fair because of p/d. This is true, it is 100% fair in terms of the rules, however, the margin in which Lebanon and Italy beat Russia and Serbia would have changed based on how each team felt on the day, the p/d in this case really does not help represent the truly ability of each team. The round robin system would really only show a deserved winner if all teams were of a similar ability.

For example; Scotland, Italy, Lebanon and Ireland in a group would make it "more fair". Even going as far to have a second group going of lesser nations, with the top two nations of that group playing the bottom two nations of the stronger group, winners qualifying for the world cup. Eventually, with the Euro Cup etc and other non qualifying tournaments being held, the gab in ability will potentially close, putting all of europe on an equal footing.

To me, the only automatic qualifiers should be Aus, NZ, Eng, France, PNG. Everyone else should be made to qualify through group stages, just like the Soccer World Cup.

 

[shasha]

8 of them have actually.



After the 2008 qualifiers in 07, where did the Australian heritage players go in 08 when Lebanon lost 80-0 to Russia?




Most of Italy are semi pro to



????? Italy had 4 players max with NRL experience and Lebanon had 2, possibly even more. Italy had one or 2 more domestic/local born players



The 4 NRL players could've stayed back if they wanted but they didn't. They were proud to be selected for Italy and because they wanted to play, the FIRL had to pay 10s of thousands for NRL clubs to release those 4 players. The clubs could have easily said no and not risk their players getting injured but like I said, they were proud and honoured to be selected and the clubs understood, letting them go and with an insurance fee incase injuries which then the club pays to fix up.



There is pretty much no difference in the 2 national teams when comparing players, how many from here or there. You shouldn't be angry at Italy, it should be the RLIF for the way the 2013 World Cup has been set up with teams gaining auto entry ahead of nations like Lebanon who had to put in hard work and spend money in qualifying

In My Opinion and from what i can think of.

Anthony Minichiello hasn't represented them since 1999, and is only doing so now because he can not make Australia. The rest of the Italian side I think combined from players playing from Australia would combine to make about 5-8 games in total. I think Jamie Clark or Khalid Deeb alone from the Lebanese side would of played more then 8-10 games each.

And that 80-0 loss you are talking about, was clearly the Lebanese based players only, which was played during the season in Australia, so obviously players have committments in either the NRL, NSW cup, NYC or Bundy Cup.

Im not here to argue. The thing that pisses me off the most is qualifying system more then 'ring ins' and so for. Because if we are going to talk about ring ins, eliminate the likes of Tonga and Samoa, cause they are only made of players who can not make NZ or Aus. I just do not see how 8 point difference in margin of Point differential can cost a team in a world cup, especially when the two other games being played in the pools are against teams when your winning by 90!!!