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Let's Make It Happen

Spot On

Coach
Messages
13,902
How many 19 or 18 year olds play firstgrade that aren't either great talents at a minimum (eg Mullen) or superstars (eg Inglis) ?

By the way I hear our NYC captain, Ethan Cook is getting close...thought I'd throw his name in there as there is so much Pete chat on here, someone else thats getting there should get a mention too!

Are you indicating we have no under 20's talent capable of a few games in firsts either this season or next?
 

roopy

Referee
Messages
27,980
Are you indicating we have no under 20's talent capable of a few games in firsts either this season or next?
guys capable of stepping up

1 Fawcett
2 McDonnell
3 Mata'utia
4 Williams
5 Kev Naiquama
6 Roberts
7 Ndaira
8 Edwards
9 no one
10 Tovo
11 Tetevano
12 Ailoami
13 Cook

wouldn't like to go with any of them for too long, but none would disgrace themselves.
 

perverse

Referee
Messages
26,321
Well Peverse - you put me in my place. According to you I don't have the right to have any opinion on how Stone is going. I'm either a hypocrite or I need to wake up to myself.

It's funny...because I thought the whole point of being part of a forum is giving your opinion on topics.

Apparently the only opinion I am allowed to give is (after waking up to myself) that I agree with Perverse 100%.

Better?
you just give no justification for your opinion, mate. i could cop it if you had good, well founded reasons to believe stone isn't up to the job... but you have neither indicated that you do or have outlined anything even resembling rational thought as far as this issue goes. all you have is a bunch of players playing with very little heart week-to-week, and you've joined your own dots in your head and pointed the finger directly at the coach. this is why i rubbish your opinion, not because you're not entitled to voice it. your "this is a forum" argument is piss weak, and goes both ways... as i'm equally entitled to voice my opinion of your opinion... and so the carousel spins...

i have shown, through reason and circumstance why it is far too early to go about looking for a new coach. the thing is, even if you are right (completely feasible at this stage, i'm even leaning towards it myself) about stone not being up to the job, you are still wrong about ditching him so quickly, because he hasn't been given a genuine shot at staking his claim. if you can't cop that, and want to whine about me not giving your opinion a shot... well there's not much to say about it really. unfortunate, perhaps. as much as i love myself, i do put my hand up when proven wrong, misinformed or misguided. if you couldn't cop the heat this thread was always going to draw, then you shouldn't have posted it... unless you genuinely thought everyone would agree with you and we'd all hold hands and sing songs. if that is the case then i'm sorry to disappoint.
 

Alex28

Coach
Messages
11,875
Well...I did say it would be a tough decision to make to cut someone such a short-term in to their tenure with the club. I certainly didn't put it up here thinking everyone would agree with me - I put it up to spark debate, to put out another option rather than being resigned to a few years of what we have been dished up thus far. I got the debate, however you backed me in to a corner - I'm biased against him if I bag him, I'm a hypocrite if I don't.

This is the way I see his time as head coach thus far. He has had some battles so far - losing Wicks wasn't such a big loss, however losing Houston is a big loss. In saying that Pato has been filling Houston's role more than adequately so far and Tuimavave has been doing a better job than Wicks would have any way. He is operating with a squad well below the salary cap, and he is operating with a NYC team which gives him virtually no options of filling those two vacant gaps.

However...he inherited a semi-final team last year with a pretty good attitude. He seemed to have a pretty good off-season with the players, not too many rep players who spent an extended amount of time away from the team, a few injuries but not too many. The team has gone backwards on his watch. Attitudes have changed, fitness is noticeably down, key players like Mullen and De Gois are inconsistent at best, poor at worst.

We are on 6 points, however have looked far from convincing. A good win over the dogs however it seems a long time ago. Cowboys and Broncos wins were far from convincing. Sharks performance was a disgrace. We had an instinct last year where we had a desire to win and take the big scalps. That seems to have disappeared. Every game so far we have had at least a 20 minute gap where we have let teams back in the game and more often than not let the game get away from us.

If he is frustrated with the conditioning of the team why isn't he insisting that something is done about it? When all the blame ends up on him why isn't he insisting that it improves rather than showing frustration on TV? If we are operating with 23 out of 25 players in the salary cap why aren't we making better progress in getting 2 players to fill the gap? We have 7 weeks until the 30 June deadline, however we are better off getting a mid-season transfer now rather than in 7 weeks.

We can blame the conditioning staff for the players fitness, we can blame the recruitment staff for the (lack of) recruitment, we can blame the junior staff for the progress of the younger players. We can blame Smith for everything we want to. However he is the one with the ultimate responsibility of how the NRL squad is going and ultimately it is up to him to kick up a fuss and get things changed that he is not happy with. I sense resignation that he can't control that rather than someone willing to kick up a fuss.

I almost see some Hagan in him. I have no problems with him being critical of players in the media because to be quite frank some of them deserved to be called out for the poor players they have been this year. Let's face it - some of them are only in there right now because there are simply no other alternatives at the moment (again...not really Stone's fault). We have seen no real criticism in the media of individual performances thus far (have we?).

To an extent cutting him now wouldn't be fair on him. He inherited this squad, he has had no time to recruit and put his own twist on the squad. He has been sold a bit of a sh*t sandwich thus far and he does deserve some more time.

However the question I was asking is if someone comes along that ultimately can do a better job, can improve the team as a whole, can aid in recruitment and can get us closer to winning a premiership...do we disregard them because we want to be fair to the existing coach? Do we want to be the nice guys who are happy with mediocrity or the ruthless guys who are willing to make the hard decisions in order to succeed?

Do we want to be plodders, or do we want to win?
 

Alex28

Coach
Messages
11,875
It was quite the diatribe...and to be fair to Stone he might be doing stuff like insisting that conditioning improves and the like...I'm sure there is a lot we don't see from the outside...as I said it was all hypothetical really to see what people would think we should do if the right candidate came up right now.

It is all just my desire to see us win a premiership again. It just all looks a long way off right now.
 

Chief

Juniors
Messages
11
Id be stoked with Nathan Brown also tbh.

I like your thinking. Just look at the Dragons. All they did was change the coach and boom, straight to the top of the ladder. The sooner we can get Nathan to the Knights to apply some of the Brown polish the better.
 
Messages
3,813
Potter has acheived f### all as a coach. He must rate himself deluxe if he think he is ready for the NRL. St Helens have the best roster in the ESL. Mr Magoo could coach them to the title. Let's not get carried away here.
 

Whats Doing

Bench
Messages
2,899
The biggest decline in our performance from this year to last year is our defensive technique. It is very poor and leaves us losing the ruck more times than not whioch in turn fatigues the players more quickly.

This is the coaches role to ensure it is right but I am afraid Stone has let this aspect go backwards big time.

I am not sure how much time Pika is being used but it is likely it is no where near as much as last year.
 
Messages
16,034
I'd be happy to see Potter as an assistant, however it is very unfair if Stone doesn't see out the year.

This year is pretty much a write off, we may skim into the finals hopefully but thats about it.

Next year is the test for Coach and Management and the direction they take will dictate our fortunes for the next 5 years as we'll never have a better opportunity with the space we have under the cap, players that will be available and our supposed improvement in finances its time for our club to drag us from meekness to greatness.
 

Yosh

Coach
Messages
11,600
I like your thinking. Just look at the Dragons. All they did was change the coach and boom, straight to the top of the ladder. The sooner we can get Nathan to the Knights to apply some of the Brown polish the better.

I don't get it... Sarcasm?

Anyways. Yes 6 weeks aint long enough to judge a coach. I don't know if replacing him is the best idea just yet but weighing it up:

For (replacing):
1. That guy from Super League sounds Super
2. Strike while the iron is hot (he might not be available later)
3. We have won 3 games but have looked poor all our games this year
4. Stone kinda reminds me of Hagan

Against
1. Too early, Stone might have something in mind which will take him half a season or more to implement etc

What else?
 

perverse

Referee
Messages
26,321
I don't get it... Sarcasm?

Anyways. Yes 6 weeks aint long enough to judge a coach. I don't know if replacing him is the best idea just yet but weighing it up:

For (replacing):
1. That guy from Super League sounds Super
2. Strike while the iron is hot (he might not be available later)
3. We have won 3 games but have looked poor all our games this year
4. Stone kinda reminds me of Hagan

Against
1. Too early, Stone might have something in mind which will take him half a season or more to implement etc

What else?
Against:
2. Coaches other than Mick Potter do exist. If we miss out on him, there will always be more to choose from.
3. Mick Potter is just as unproven at NRL level... and one could argue he's had it very easy at St. Helens.
4. Much like Jarrod Mullen isn't Andrew Johns, Rick Stone isn't Michael Hagen. his press conferences are very different and we saw in the second half against brisbane alone that there is genuine attacking structure and a gameplan in place. we won't know about the defence until the players actually put in for a full 80 minutes.
 

Yosh

Coach
Messages
11,600
Against:
2. Coaches other than Mick Potter do exist. If we miss out on him, there will always be more to choose from.
3. Mick Potter is just as unproven at NRL level... and one could argue he's had it very easy at St. Helens.
4. Much like Jarrod Mullen isn't Andrew Johns, Rick Stone isn't Michael Hagen. his press conferences are very different and we saw in the second half against brisbane alone that there is genuine attacking structure and a gameplan in place. we won't know about the defence until the players actually put in for a full 80 minutes.

I agree with some of that post especially point 4.

However point 2. Yeah there are other coaches. Are they better options, that's another issue.
Point 3. Well neither was Stone. He did very well in the Real NRL was it or QLD Cup but I mean the Super League is at least comparable to the NRL. I don't know much about Potter but surely winning the Super League is something. Plus he might bring some Hogwarts magic!:D

Pers you getting worried about the 'Super Aku to Fullback' thing yet? He is getting better and better each week. :)
 

sneaky_is_here

Juniors
Messages
1,606
What i am not understanding about these threads is the timing. How can anyone think that sacking stone now is the right thing to do, how can you think it will not upset the players or how they will re-act.

How can you judge stone based on what he has been allowed to do. He is playing with Smith's squad not what he himself has created. On top of that if we win this week we are in a totally different position and all of a sudden stone looks good.
 

Rolla

Juniors
Messages
2,196
I still think we could have a good year. Our two players (aku and pato) with the most potential have finally shown that they can produce the goods at nrl level. Add to this we have no long term injuries to key players like Crossy. Now all we need is our other players to find the form they were in last year. Zeb showed he is close, Mark T just continues to grow as a player, Hilder and Degoise will sort out their 'D'. Mullo and the halves? who knows but they weren't consistant last year. Coop has had his two best games in the last three weeks.

It isnt all doom and gloom guys, i saw coached set plays last week that looked better than anything smith ran. It will all click soon, i think it was always going to be a slow start for us.
 

Alex28

Coach
Messages
11,875
On top of that if we win this week we are in a totally different position and all of a sudden stone looks good.
Please...if we win this week we look like we are overachieving. How any one who has seen the performances against the Sharks and Broncos class our season as "good"?

Incidently...Potter has said he'll take an Assistants role to get a step in to the NRL. Would some extra experience assist Stone? Would it benefit the club? Would his reputation be something that would attract players we can't attract now even in an assistant role?
 

Joker's Wild

Coach
Messages
17,894
I like your thinking. Just look at the Dragons. All they did was change the coach and boom, straight to the top of the ladder. The sooner we can get Nathan to the Knights to apply some of the Brown polish the better.

:lol: Nice one
 

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